Who's Better?

[Ojb81]

Kirby beat his woman, he was a chump

 

[Nosferatu]

Kirby was one of my favorite players as a kid.


But I think both are overrated due to their careers coming to unfortunate ends. And dying young.


Neither had twightlight years to bring down rate stats. Great players, but they get to be HOFers and guys like Don Mattingly don't.

I don't think either player is overrated, honestly I think they are both underrated.

Mattingly played his last game at a younger age than either Puck or Clemente.

 

[obxyankeefan]

Bernie Williams is comparable to Kirby Puckett.

 

[Nosferatu]

Kirby beat his woman, he was a chump

None of that other shit came out until after his career was over. He was obviously a shitty human being but he was fun to watch play America's past time...

 

[Nosferatu]

Bernie Williams is comparable to Kirby Puckett.

Go away, lolzzz

 

[broncosmitty]

I don't think either player is overrated, honestly I think they are both underrated.

Mattingly played his last game at a younger age than either Puck or Clemente.

Mattingly had no pop the last five years. I mention him because he's still breathing. Only reason he isn't a HOFer.

Much better hitter than both imo. Prior to Injury and for his career as a whole. And same level in the field. Although at a less defensive position. Dude never struck out 50 times in a season. Clemente and Puckett didn't make contact at anywhere near the same rate.


Death helps with legacy at times. And imo this thread is about two examples. Clemente for sure. His career would have kept going, but he was not the great player already. El Presidente ended Kirbys at the end of his prime.


Don't know how first ballot HOFers can be underrated personally.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I'm not being defensive, i'm just participating in a conversation. Crying? lolzzz okay guess we are done here...

Just playing with ya man... Should have probably added a joke in that post like how Derek Jeter is god... and how he was so much better than Joe Morgan...

I personally hate Jack of all trade players(not saying Puckett is one) but when a player is not great at things, i dont like to put that into the comparison...

Puckett only hit 30+ HRs once in his career, you can pretty much call that an outlier to his career, so he was basically a 20 HR guy who hit for great BA... the 20 HR guy part was pretty average as that 31 was the only time he was even a top 10 in the AL HR hitter... and was never top 10 in SLG%...


i bring up OBP because if power is not your game, then getting on base must be... Puckett was an elite BA guy, but he just never walked, so his on base was just not ELITE...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Kirby was one of my favorite players as a kid.


But I think both are overrated due to their careers coming to unfortunate ends. And dying young.


Neither had twightlight years to bring down rate stats. Great players, but they get to be HOFers and guys like Don Mattingly don't.

i agree with you that both are over-rated...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Go away, lolzzz

actually funny thing is that they are comparable... sure Puckett is better(in a serious me not being a dick way)...

but they are much closer than you think...

 

[Nosferatu]

Don't know how first ballot HOFers can be underrated personally.

214th pick in the draft after notable greats like Greg Swindell and this is one example.

ROUND 11
11.1.201 : Smitty : Jesse Burkett
11.2.202 : Meebs : Greg Swindell
11.3.203 : Devil : Randy Myers
11.4.204 : Ritz : Fernando Valenzuela
11.5.205 : 500 : David Cone
11.6.206 : Femur : John Wetteland
11.7.207 : UK : Joe Mauer
11.8.208 : WLK : Buster Posey
11.9.209 : Shane : Gabby Hartnett
11.10.210 : Nos : Billy Pierce
11.11.211 : Nos 2 : Early Wynn
11.12.212 : Shane 2 : Wilbur Wood
11.13.213 : WLK 2 : Joe Nathan
11.14.214 : UK 2 : Kirby Puckett
11.15.215 : Femur 2 : Richie Ashburn
11.16.216 : 500 2 : Jerry Koosman
11.17.217 : Ritz 2 : Arthur Rhodes
11.18.218 : Devil 2 : Frank Viola
11.19.219 : Meebs 2 : Bobby Shantz
11.20.220 : Smitty 2 : Earl Averill

 

[MilkSpiller22]

214th pick in the draft after notable greats like Greg Swindell and this is one example.

ROUND 11
11.1.201 : Smitty : Jesse Burkett
11.2.202 : Meebs : Greg Swindell
11.3.203 : Devil : Randy Myers
11.4.204 : Ritz : Fernando Valenzuela
11.5.205 : 500 : David Cone
11.6.206 : Femur : John Wetteland
11.7.207 : UK : Joe Mauer
11.8.208 : WLK : Buster Posey
11.9.209 : Shane : Gabby Hartnett
11.10.210 : Nos : Billy Pierce
11.11.211 : Nos 2 : Early Wynn
11.12.212 : Shane 2 : Wilbur Wood
11.13.213 : WLK 2 : Joe Nathan
11.14.214 : UK 2 : Kirby Puckett
11.15.215 : Femur 2 : Richie Ashburn
11.16.216 : 500 2 : Jerry Koosman
11.17.217 : Ritz 2 : Arthur Rhodes
11.18.218 : Devil 2 : Frank Viola
11.19.219 : Meebs 2 : Bobby Shantz
11.20.220 : Smitty 2 : Earl Averill

richie Ashburn was taken after him and he is better...

 

[GhostOfPoverty]

Puckett. Because defense.


And because I'm a homer who hasn't had anything worthwhile to hope for besides a couple of random quality seasons that ended badly since Puckett retired.

 

[broncosmitty]

214th pick in the draft after notable greats like Greg Swindell and this is one example.

ROUND 11
11.1.201 : Smitty : Jesse Burkett
11.2.202 : Meebs : Greg Swindell
11.3.203 : Devil : Randy Myers
11.4.204 : Ritz : Fernando Valenzuela
11.5.205 : 500 : David Cone
11.6.206 : Femur : John Wetteland
11.7.207 : UK : Joe Mauer
11.8.208 : WLK : Buster Posey
11.9.209 : Shane : Gabby Hartnett
11.10.210 : Nos : Billy Pierce
11.11.211 : Nos 2 : Early Wynn
11.12.212 : Shane 2 : Wilbur Wood
11.13.213 : WLK 2 : Joe Nathan
11.14.214 : UK 2 : Kirby Puckett
11.15.215 : Femur 2 : Richie Ashburn
11.16.216 : 500 2 : Jerry Koosman
11.17.217 : Ritz 2 : Arthur Rhodes
11.18.218 : Devil 2 : Frank Viola
11.19.219 : Meebs 2 : Bobby Shantz
11.20.220 : Smitty 2 : Earl Averill

What were the restrictions in this draft?



And why did Ritz draft Arthur Rhodes?

 

[Pack 500]

Fielding %
Clemente - .973
Puckett - .989


Also that's center field vs right field

Fielding percentage lol who cares? Who actually makes errors in the outfield? All about range and throwing arm.

 

[blstoker]

Fielding percentage lol who cares? Who actually makes errors in the outfield? All about range and throwing arm.

Clemente. 6 seasons with 10 or more errors. Had nearly as many errors (140) in his career as Puckett had assists (142). Granted - Clemente played in an era where outfield errors were more common than in Puckett's.

Range means less when comparing a CF vs. a RF, as their range will not compare similarly. Both were above average at the position they played most.

Throwing arm was closer than I realized. Clemente averaged 14 assists a season to Puckett's 12. Clemente's 77 innings per assist is better than Puckett's 102, but Clemente played in an era when OF assists were more common than in Puckett's. Overall, though - RFs do have stronger arms than CFs (and generally get more opportunities), so I would be a little shocked that a comparison of such evenly matched players if the RFs throwing arm wasn't stronger than a CFs.

Side note, Puckett's 78.9 assists per inning in RF is only slightly less than Clemente's 78.4 (granted in 17632 less innings).

 

[Pack 500]

Clemente. 6 seasons with 10 or more errors. Had nearly as many errors (140) in his career as Puckett had assists (142). Granted - Clemente played in an era where outfield errors were more common than in Puckett's.

Range means less when comparing a CF vs. a RF, as their range will not compare similarly. Both were above average at the position they played most.

Throwing arm was closer than I realized. Clemente averaged 14 assists a season to Puckett's 12. Clemente's 77 innings per assist is better than Puckett's 102, but Clemente played in an era when OF assists were more common than in Puckett's. Overall, though - RFs do have stronger arms than CFs (and generally get more opportunities), so I would be a little shocked that a comparison of such evenly matched players if the RFs throwing arm wasn't stronger than a CFs.

Side note, Puckett's 78.9 assists per inning in RF is only slightly less than Clemente's 78.4 (granted in 17632 less innings).

It was more of a general thing than for this debate. Fielding percentage is a silly indicator of defense. Unless a player is making a ton errors a season everyone can make the routine play. It's about the plays the not everybody can make.

 

[Shanemansj13]

214th pick in the draft after notable greats like Greg Swindell and this is one example.

ROUND 11
11.1.201 : Smitty : Jesse Burkett
11.2.202 : Meebs : Greg Swindell
11.3.203 : Devil : Randy Myers
11.4.204 : Ritz : Fernando Valenzuela
11.5.205 : 500 : David Cone
11.6.206 : Femur : John Wetteland
11.7.207 : UK : Joe Mauer
11.8.208 : WLK : Buster Posey
11.9.209 : Shane : Gabby Hartnett
11.10.210 : Nos : Billy Pierce
11.11.211 : Nos 2 : Early Wynn
11.12.212 : Shane 2 : Wilbur Wood
11.13.213 : WLK 2 : Joe Nathan
11.14.214 : UK 2 : Kirby Puckett
11.15.215 : Femur 2 : Richie Ashburn
11.16.216 : 500 2 : Jerry Koosman
11.17.217 : Ritz 2 : Arthur Rhodes
11.18.218 : Devil 2 : Frank Viola
11.19.219 : Meebs 2 : Bobby Shantz
11.20.220 : Smitty 2 : Earl Averill

Probably bc there are so many great CF’s, better CF’s he usually isn’t needed. Maybe for DH or a bench player

 

[Shanemansj13]

What were the restrictions in this draft?



And why did Ritz draft Arthur Rhodes?

Arthur Rhodes had those diamond earrings that blinded batters, that’s about all he had