POLL Who will be the Biggest bust of the 2017 drafts top 10 picks?

[tlance]

I think you would find yourself on an island with this one.

Porzingas is a rim protector with a good 3 who can play in space and in the paint.

If he can stay healthy he will be an elite level player.

So will Booker.

I do not think I am alone on that.

 

[The Oldtimer]

Markannen will average double digits his rookie year. All of you and your stereotypes make me sick.

Homer pick!!

 

[The Oldtimer]

no, i had a 10 day contract with charlotte in the echl in 1999...only reason i got it was i played in college with craig janneys cousin dan. his nickname was CJ because of his cousin. i got my ass handed to me and crawled home. no stories of glory for me.

so yeah, i played a little hockey in college, and some basketball. walked on to both. i also played rugby, but that was club.

Had season tickets to the Tacoma Sabercats, when they were in the WCHL.

 

[The Derski]

Homer pick!!

I might be a bit of a homer here but I also wasn't very optimistic about Stanley Johnson living up to his #8 pick a couple years ago and so far he hasn't. I just feel pretty confident in Markannen's ability to maintain a long career.

 

[shopson67]

Since I don't see the 6-10 picks as having a great success rate, I'll go with a top 5 guy; Fultz. I'll admit that I didn't see many of his games, but just watching his style and mannerisms I see a lot of similarities with D'Angelo Russell, and he has been a disappointment to date. Factor in that he cost the Sixers two lottery picks, and that's a LOT to live up to.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Since I don't see the 6-10 picks as having a great success rate, I'll go with a top 5 guy; Fultz. I'll admit that I didn't see many of his games, but just watching his style and mannerisms I see a lot of similarities with D'Angelo Russell, and he has been a disappointment to date. Factor in that he cost the Sixers two lottery picks, and that's a LOT to live up to.

He may have cost two lottery picks. Depends how the Lakers and Sac do. He could be a star or he could bust like all the other picks but he has the greatest potential to be a star and is a perfect pick for Philly. Time will tell.
I do t see D'Angelo. He was compared to Dwayne Wade.

 

[flyerhawk]

Since I don't see the 6-10 picks as having a great success rate, I'll go with a top 5 guy; Fultz. I'll admit that I didn't see many of his games, but just watching his style and mannerisms I see a lot of similarities with D'Angelo Russell, and he has been a disappointment to date. Factor in that he cost the Sixers two lottery picks, and that's a LOT to live up to.

Russell was given a bit of a tough spot. First he had to play 2nd fiddle to the Kobe Bryant farewall tour as a rookie. Then he got himself in hot water with his teammates and since then he never really bounced back.

Did you watch any Washington games? Not many non-Husky non-professionals did.

 

[DorianRo]

The problem is all these kids are going to take YEARS to develop, if most of them even develop enough at all. There just isn't much talent that comes out o the draft like there used to be 20-30 years ago

 

[AlpacaWine]

I wouldn't trade Booker straight up for Porzingas, so yeah. They better have passed on that.

Both players have superstar upside. But, we aren't in 1987 anymore. If you have a choice between a potentially elite wing and a potentially elite big, you take the wing.

Couldn't disagree more.

Booker is a volume scorer who doesn't do anything else. And his shooting percentages are just a hair better than "piss poor"


Porzingis is the much more desirable player.

 

[tlance]

Couldn't disagree more.

Booker is a volume scorer who doesn't do anything else. And his shooting percentages are just a hair better than "piss poor"


Porzingis is the much more desirable player.

Both are unfinished products.

Tell me though, who are the best big men in the league?

I think most would say Davis, Cousins and KAT. None of them have been able to lead their teams to the playoffs. We are living in a guard dominated world. Booker and Jackson could eventually be batman and robin on a championship caliber team. I don't see Porzingas being any more than Robin, because you simply can't win without great guardplay anymore. Bigs are luxury items today.

 

[flyerhawk]

Both are unfinished products.

Tell me though, who are the best big men in the league?

I think most would say Davis, Cousins and KAT. None of them have been able to lead their teams to the playoffs. We are living in a guard dominated world. Booker and Jackson could eventually be batman and robin on a championship caliber team. I don't see Porzingas being any more than Robin, because you simply can't win without great guardplay anymore. Bigs are luxury items today.

It really depends on what you mean when you say "big man". Is Kevin Durant a big man? He's pretty close to 7' tall. How bout Lebron James?

The game has certainly changed. Perimeter shooting and being able to play in space are far more important today than they were 15 years ago. So that certainly has limited the value of traditional big guys like Cousins or Drummond and other traditional rim protectors.

However Porzingas is an elite rim protector AND quality perimeter shooter. According to 537 he had the 4th best scoring differential of players he covered this year, behind Davis, Gobert and Green. He was also able to put up nearly 20 points a game.

If I were to rate the players under 25 in order of show potential(ignoring injury risks) I would probably go with

1. Embiid
2. Giannis
3. Davis
4. Porzingas
5. KAT

Feel free to put them in whatever order you like.

I can't think of a single backcourt player that would break into that group under the age of 25. Partly because it takes more time to develop as a guard. It takes more skill and you can't dominate physically like the big front court guys can.

If you think that any of the teams that have those 5 players would trade them for Devin Booker you are high as a kite. And if you don't think that the Suns wouldn't trade Booker for any of them in a second then we see things very differently. The one caveat being the injury concerns of Embiid and Porzingas and Davis.

 

[tlance]

It really depends on what you mean when you say "big man". Is Kevin Durant a big man? He's pretty close to 7' tall. How bout Lebron James?

The game has certainly changed. Perimeter shooting and being able to play in space are far more important today than they were 15 years ago. So that certainly has limited the value of traditional big guys like Cousins or Drummond and other traditional rim protectors.

However Porzingas is an elite rim protector AND quality perimeter shooter. According to 537 he had the 4th best scoring differential of players he covered this year, behind Davis, Gobert and Green. He was also able to put up nearly 20 points a game.

If I were to rate the players under 25 in order of show potential(ignoring injury risks) I would probably go with

1. Embiid
2. Giannis
3. Davis
4. Porzingas
5. KAT

Feel free to put them in whatever order you like.

I can't think of a single backcourt player that would break into that group under the age of 25. Partly because it takes more time to develop as a guard. It takes more skill and you can't dominate physically like the big front court guys can.

If you think that any of the teams that have those 5 players would trade them for Devin Booker you are high as a kite. And if you don't think that the Suns wouldn't trade Booker for any of them in a second then we see things very differently. The one caveat being the injury concerns of Embiid and Porzingas and Davis.

This is a good post

First off, LeBron, Giannis and KD are not big men. They are wing players who can potentially defend bigs. These types of guys are the most valuable assets in today's game, bar none, because they can potentially allow teams to utilize lineups with 5 perimeter players.


I do think your order in terms of value is pretty far off, however.

1: Giannis
2: Davis
3: KAT


With a large gap

4: Embiid (if ignoring injury risk)
5: Porzingas

perhaps I let my perception of The Knicks influence my Porzingas evaluation. He rates a lot better defensively than I thought. However, as good as he is at the rim, he still struggles mightily to defend in space. He is like Pau Gasol 2.0 in that regard. Opposing teams can and will relentlessly attack Kristaps in order to expose his weakness. The other bigs on your list are much more mobile and able to defend in space. In the modern NBA, that is more important than elite rim protection.

So, allow me to dial back my Porzingas/Booker comments from earlier. You have convinced me there.

Still though, I do not view Porzingas as a future superstar. THe others on your list have the ability to be just that. I like my Pau Gasol comparison. I just don't see KP being more than a great number 2 on a good team, like Gasol. Booker is in that same category, all be it a bit lower down.

 

[flyerhawk]

This is a good post

First off, LeBron, Giannis and KD are not big men. They are wing players who can potentially defend bigs. These types of guys are the most valuable assets in today's game, bar none, because they can potentially allow teams to utilize lineups with 5 perimeter players.

Fair enough.

I do think your order in terms of value is pretty far off, however.

1: Giannis
2: Davis
3: KAT


With a large gap

4: Embiid (if ignoring injury risk)
5: Porzingas

I put Embiid no. 1 largely as a homer. He has by far the smallest resume. But in those relatively few games he was remarkably dominant. In his first 31 games of his career his per 36 averages were kinda ridiculous. 28 ppg, 11 RPG, 3.5 Blocks per game, 3 assists per game. IF he can stay healthy, which is a pretty big if, the guy could be an MVP level player.

Giannas has MVP potential as well. KAT, at least from what I've read since I don't see the Wolves play much, still needs to build his defensive skills to become an MVP level player.

perhaps I let my perception of The Knicks influence my Porzingas evaluation. He rates a lot better defensively than I thought. However, as good as he is at the rim, he still struggles mightily to defend in space. He is like Pau Gasol 2.0 in that regard. Opposing teams can and will relentlessly attack Kristaps in order to expose his weakness. The other bigs on your list are much more mobile and able to defend in space. In the modern NBA, that is more important than elite rim protection.

I dunno about that. His defense is really solid. The Knicks defense is not because they are an empty cupboard of talent.

So, allow me to dial back my Porzingas/Booker comments from earlier. You have convinced me there.

Still though, I do not view Porzingas as a future superstar. THe others on your list have the ability to be just that. I like my Pau Gasol comparison. I just don't see KP being more than a great number 2 on a good team, like Gasol. Booker is in that same category, all be it a bit lower down.

I don't see Porzingas as an MVP caliber talent. But he is definitely an all-star level talent if he can stay healthy. Gasol isn't a terrible comparison. 6 time all-star. 4 time all NBA.

 

[tlance]

Fair enough.




I put Embiid no. 1 largely as a homer. He has by far the smallest resume. But in those relatively few games he was remarkably dominant. In his first 31 games of his career his per 36 averages were kinda ridiculous. 28 ppg, 11 RPG, 3.5 Blocks per game, 3 assists per game. IF he can stay healthy, which is a pretty big if, the guy could be an MVP level player.

Giannas has MVP potential as well. KAT, at least from what I've read since I don't see the Wolves play much, still needs to build his defensive skills to become an MVP level player.


I dunno about that. His defense is really solid. The Knicks defense is not because they are an empty cupboard of talent.



I don't see Porzingas as an MVP caliber talent. But he is definitely an all-star level talent if he can stay healthy. Gasol isn't a terrible comparison. 6 time all-star. 4 time all NBA.

I agree with that. All star level talent, while the other 4 could all be MVPs someday, in theory.

That is what I view Booker as too. Maybe not quite as good a prospect as KP, but he also fits the other Suns prospects really well. Jackson and Booker could be ideal complementary pieces, and they are already invested in Bender and Criss in the front court. That fit has to be considered.

 

[flyerhawk]

I agree with that. All star level talent, while the other 4 could all be MVPs someday, in theory.

That is what I view Booker as too. Maybe not quite as good a prospect as KP, but he also fits the other Suns prospects really well. Jackson and Booker could be ideal complementary pieces, and they are already invested in Bender and Criss in the front court. That fit has to be considered.

Yeah Booker could turn into a really good player. Needs to be more efficient which could happen.

 

[Sparhawk]

I do think your order in terms of value is pretty far off, however.

1: Giannis
2: Davis
3: KAT
With a large gap
4: Embiid (if ignoring injury risk)
5: Porzingas

One Team, Three Stats: Behind Embiid, Sixers lock down defensively

"The Sixers have been the league's best defensive team in January, having allowed 99.9 points per 100 possessions this month. And they've done that with six of their 12 January games against teams that rank in the top 10 in offensive efficiency, while only two of the 12 have been against bottom-10 offenses. They've held their opponent under its season-long OffRtg in nine of their 12 January games and on average, the Sixers have allowed 6.7 fewer points per 100 possessions than their opponents' season-long offensive numbers."

"Of course, they've been at their best defensively with Embiid on the floor. In January, the Sixers have allowed just 87.5 points per 100 possessions in Embiid's 211 minutes, with their opponents shooting just 37 percent from the field. It's rare that you find a rookie that makes a positive impact on both ends of the floor right away, but Embiid has done just that. For the season, the Sixers have been 3.9 points per 100 possessions better offensively and 9.4 points per 100 possessions better defensively with Embiid on the floor than they've been with him off the floor."

January is a small sample size, but what a sample size it is....
Even with Simmons and Fultz, the Sixers go as Embiid goes.

 

[Rock Strongo]

no love for lonzo.

for the record i think he wont develop into what his old man thinks he will. hes another ricky rubio if you ask me.