Who belongs in the HOF??

[MilkSpiller22]

I am in a debating mood...

Who is not in the HOF that should be in, who should not??

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I guess I cant delete this... Meant to put in the baseball board...

So basically what I am saying is screw you Nos...

 

[Mebert]

Bo Jackson clearly

 

[UK Cowboy]

Shoeless Joe, Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, etc, all should be in. Baseball made plenty of money off them, let them in a Hall of Shame wing if you like, but the HOF should include all the greatest players or none. I guarantee you there are guys in that did a Hell of a lot worse at some point

 

[Nosferatu]

I am a little biased but I think Tony Oliva should be in, I understand why he's not but he lead the league in hits 5 times, won 3 batting titles had some pop in his bat was a great fielder, rookie of the year, in his rookie season he won a batting title, had the most hits in the AL, the most doubles and scored the most runs and he was an 8 time All Star and an increadibly likeable guy!

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Shoeless Joe, Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, etc, all should be in. Baseball made plenty of money off them, let them in a Hall of Shame wing if you like, but the HOF should include all the greatest players or none. I guarantee you there are guys in that did a Hell of a lot worse at some point

You picked 3 obvious ones... But if I was pete rose, I would not want to be in until he died or just really old... Once he makes the HOF, his name will be forgotten... He is nothing special compared to other HOFers... I think he is a low end HOFer...

 

[Nosferatu]

You picked 3 obvious ones... But if I was pete rose, I would not want to be in until he died or just really old... Once he makes the HOF, his name will be forgotten... He is nothing special compared to other HOFers... I think he is a low end HOFer...

I think we all know how I feel about Rose but he is most definately a HOFer and not a low level one either...

I feel about Rose the way I feel about Emmitt Smith, just because he wasn't truly the best player doesn't take away from the fact he was able to stick around long enough to get more hits/yards than anyone who ever played, no matter how we feel about a player that has to be recognized.

 

[UK Cowboy]

I think we all know how I feel about Rose but he is most definately a HOFer and not a low level one either...

I feel about Rose the way I feel about Emmitt Smith, just because he wasn't truly the best player doesn't take away from the fact he was able to stick around long enough to get more hits/yards than anyone who ever played, no matter how we feel about a player that has to be recognized.

I love you Brother, but Emmitt was so much better than you give him credit for. If Barry Sanders had played for the Cowboys, he might have had 2400 yards seasons.... but they might not have won 3 rings. Sanders was awesome, but he also had more negative yardage runs while looking for a big play as anyone. A negative 3 run is just like a sack, a drive killer. I don't see Barry ramming into a 9 man front on 3rd or 4th and 1 or goal to go like Emmitt did 75-80 times a year either.

 

[UK Cowboy]

You picked 3 obvious ones... But if I was pete rose, I would not want to be in until he died or just really old... Once he makes the HOF, his name will be forgotten... He is nothing special compared to other HOFers... I think he is a low end HOFer...

All time hits leader, a 15 year stretch of .325 composite average.... you're nuts

 

[Nosferatu]

I love you Brother, but Emmitt was so much better than you give him credit for. If Barry Sanders had played for the Cowboys, he might have had 2400 yards seasons.... but they might not have won 3 rings. Sanders was awesome, but he also had more negative yardage runs while looking for a big play as anyone. A negative 3 run is just like a sack, a drive killer. I don't see Barry ramming into a 9 man front on 3rd or 4th and 1 or goal to go like Emmitt did 75-80 times a year either.

You're using Sanders to try and convince me? You know how I feel about Sanders. I like Emmitt because of his toughness but there are a dozens backs who could have done just as well in that offense IMO.

 

[UK Cowboy]

You're using Sanders to try and convince me? You know how I feel about Sanders. I like Emmitt because of his toughness but there are a dozens backs who could have done just as well in that offense IMO.

A dozen ever, maybe. Brown, Dickerson, Campbell, AD and Terrell Davis would have been great behind that line. Great East-West runners, not so much

 

[Nosferatu]

I think some other backs like Herschel Walker, Fred Taylor, Eddie George, Curtis Martin, Jerome Bettis could have been just as succsessful...

 

[UK Cowboy]

I think some other backs like Herschel Walker, Fred Taylor, Eddie George, Curtis Martin, Jerome Bettis could have been just as succsessful...

Respect your opinion, but I think Emmitt was a little better than all those guys. Most of those guys had great lines as well. George ran behind Matthews/Munchak line that I thought was Cowboys OL equal

 

[MilkSpiller22]

All time hits leader, a 15 year stretch of .325 composite average.... you're nuts

When was the last time you heard people talk about Frank Robinson?? that was all i meant... Pete rose belongs in the HOF, but he is not an elite HOFer... and people rarely talk about elite HOFers... Pete rose gets talked about BECAUSE he is not in the HOF... Once he makes it, he will be forgotten...

 

[Nosferatu]

Respect your opinion, but I think Emmitt was a little better than all those guys. Most of those guys had great lines as well. George ran behind Matthews/Munchak line that I thought was Cowboys OL equal

I don't think Eddie was as good either, I simply named players who could have been as succsessful on that Cowboys team, it's not just the offensive line thats important, its the QB, the receivers and the defense. I think Curtis Martin is every bit as good as Emmitt and would have done maybe better than Emmitt if he spent his career on that Dallas team. Martin was every bit as tough and was a better receiver out of the backfield. I'm not bashing Emmitt as I have said many times I respect what he was able to do, you say I undervalue him which might be true but I think you overvalue him.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I don't think Eddie was as good either, I simply named players who could have been as succsessful on that Cowboys team, it's not just the offensive line thats important, its the QB, the receivers and the defense. I think Curtis Martin is every bit as good as Emmitt and would have done maybe better than Emmitt if he spent his career on that Dallas team. Martin was every bit as tough and was a better receiver out of the backfield. I'm not bashing Emmitt as I have said many times I respect what he was able to do, you say I undervalue him which might be true but I think you overvalue him.

I dont know whether i agree or disagree with this... But i do think football is all about systems, and surrounding talent... But generally speaking i think all power backs are over-rated to an extent...

 

[Rockinkuwait]

I think Barry's negative yardage gets kind of overblown. Kind of like Favre's INT record or Ricky Hendersons caught stealing record. His career negative carries actually ranks behind Emmitt, Faulk, and Curtis Martin. Adrian Peterson should catch him next year.

But take a guy like Marshawn Lynch.

Barry, 336 carries for a loss in 3062 career carries. (from NFL.com)
Marshawn from Pro-football reference has 230 in 2144 carries

In 3062 carries Marshawn would be on pace for 328 negative carries, or about .8 fewer negative rushes per season.

To me it's that Barry's negative runs were a lot more spectacular so we think of them as being so much more than anyone else.







And as an Eagle fan I hate to say this but I agree Emmitt was not just "a product of his line".

Year before Emmitt drafted... With Tuinei, Newton, Gogan, Moose, etc. Hershel Walker 3.0 YPC (up to 4.0 when he arrived in Minnesota and got away from those guys).


And Dallas 1990-2000 YPC (Emmitt's prime)
Alonzo Highsmith 2.53
Blair Thomas 2.92
Lincoln Coleman 3.18
Derrick Gainer 3.22
Daryl Johnston 3.28
Tommie Agee 3.42
Curvin Richards 3.53
Derrick Lassic 3.59
Michael Wiley 3.67
Robert Thomas 3.74
Sherman Williams 3.85
Emmitt Smith 4.29

Chris Warren was the only guy with meaningful carries with a better YPA, and he was their 3rd down draw back and Emmitt was their goal/short yardage back. His lone start as the bell cow was 3.68 YPC.

Based on team YPC ranks from 1990-2000, Emmitt at 4.29 in that prime of his career would have ranked tied for 2nd with San Fran in YPC (behind only Detroit and Barry), and the rest of the Dallas RB's in that span would have ranked them 26th.

Which is pretty impressive with how often Emmitt was the guy on 3rd and 1 or 2nd and goal (the runs you would expect the lower YPC from).

So while I hate how Emmitt always killed my Eagles, yes he deserves to be in that top section of the HOF for me.

 

[UK Cowboy]

I think Barry's negative yardage gets kind of overblown. Kind of like Favre's INT record or Ricky Hendersons caught stealing record. His career negative carries actually ranks behind Emmitt, Faulk, and Curtis Martin. Adrian Peterson should catch him next year.

But take a guy like Marshawn Lynch.

Barry, 336 carries for a loss in 3062 career carries. (from NFL.com)
Marshawn from Pro-football reference has 230 in 2144 carries

In 3062 carries Marshawn would be on pace for 328 negative carries, or about .8 fewer negative rushes per season.

To me it's that Barry's negative runs were a lot more spectacular so we think of them as being so much more than anyone else.







And as an Eagle fan I hate to say this but I agree Emmitt was not just "a product of his line".

Year before Emmitt drafted... With Tuinei, Newton, Gogan, Moose, etc. Hershel Walker 3.0 YPC (up to 4.0 when he arrived in Minnesota and got away from those guys).


And Dallas 1990-2000 YPC (Emmitt's prime)
Alonzo Highsmith 2.53
Blair Thomas 2.92
Lincoln Coleman 3.18
Derrick Gainer 3.22
Daryl Johnston 3.28
Tommie Agee 3.42
Curvin Richards 3.53
Derrick Lassic 3.59
Michael Wiley 3.67
Robert Thomas 3.74
Sherman Williams 3.85
Emmitt Smith 4.29

Chris Warren was the only guy with meaningful carries with a better YPA, and he was their 3rd down draw back and Emmitt was their goal/short yardage back. His lone start as the bell cow was 3.68 YPC.

Based on team YPC ranks from 1990-2000, Emmitt at 4.29 in that prime of his career would have ranked tied for 2nd with San Fran in YPC (behind only Detroit and Barry), and the rest of the Dallas RB's in that span would have ranked them 26th.

Which is pretty impressive with how often Emmitt was the guy on 3rd and 1 or 2nd and goal (the runs you would expect the lower YPC from).

So while I hate how Emmitt always killed my Eagles, yes he deserves to be in that top section of the HOF for me.

Well Done Sir

 

[UK Cowboy]

On the subject of HOF....Leave a Whisper by Shinedown my be the greatest CD ever

 

[Nosferatu]

I think Barry's negative yardage gets kind of overblown. Kind of like Favre's INT record or Ricky Hendersons caught stealing record. His career negative carries actually ranks behind Emmitt, Faulk, and Curtis Martin. Adrian Peterson should catch him next year.

But take a guy like Marshawn Lynch.

Barry, 336 carries for a loss in 3062 career carries. (from NFL.com)
Marshawn from Pro-football reference has 230 in 2144 carries

In 3062 carries Marshawn would be on pace for 328 negative carries, or about .8 fewer negative rushes per season.

To me it's that Barry's negative runs were a lot more spectacular so we think of them as being so much more than anyone else.







And as an Eagle fan I hate to say this but I agree Emmitt was not just "a product of his line".

Year before Emmitt drafted... With Tuinei, Newton, Gogan, Moose, etc. Hershel Walker 3.0 YPC (up to 4.0 when he arrived in Minnesota and got away from those guys).


And Dallas 1990-2000 YPC (Emmitt's prime)
Alonzo Highsmith 2.53
Blair Thomas 2.92
Lincoln Coleman 3.18
Derrick Gainer 3.22
Daryl Johnston 3.28
Tommie Agee 3.42
Curvin Richards 3.53
Derrick Lassic 3.59
Michael Wiley 3.67
Robert Thomas 3.74
Sherman Williams 3.85
Emmitt Smith 4.29

Chris Warren was the only guy with meaningful carries with a better YPA, and he was their 3rd down draw back and Emmitt was their goal/short yardage back. His lone start as the bell cow was 3.68 YPC.

Based on team YPC ranks from 1990-2000, Emmitt at 4.29 in that prime of his career would have ranked tied for 2nd with San Fran in YPC (behind only Detroit and Barry), and the rest of the Dallas RB's in that span would have ranked them 26th.

Which is pretty impressive with how often Emmitt was the guy on 3rd and 1 or 2nd and goal (the runs you would expect the lower YPC from).

So while I hate how Emmitt always killed my Eagles, yes he deserves to be in that top section of the HOF for me.

Yeah Emmitt was great but you're comparing him to nobodies. Just because Hall of Famer Derrick Gainer didn't do so good doesn't mean Emmitt was amazing. Curvin Richards had 55 carries his entire career, come on...