What's your take on this?

[Morpheus]

Y! SPORTS

You'd think that a group of grown men would be beyond bullying a co-worker, but that apparently wasn't the case in the Miami Dolphins' locker room.

Reports surfaced earlier this week of Dolphins tackle Jonathan Martin slamming his food tray down in the cafeteria and leaving the team after his teammates got up when he went to sit with them. Not surprisingly, it wasn't just one incident that set Martin off.

Fox Sports reported on an "abusive environment" toward Martin during his season-and-a-half with the Dolphins. The report said there has been persistent bullying and teasing of him, including personal and family insults, and even an unflattering nickname of "Big Weirdo."

Seriously, these are grown men doing this to another grown man.


Martin was inactive for Thursday night's game against the Cincinnati Bengals, and there's no word on when he'll return to the Dolphins.



There is typically minor rookie hazing in the NFL but Fox Sports said this went beyond that for Martin, a 6-foot-5, 312-pound tackle who was Miami's second-round pick out of Stanford last year. Fox Sports' Alex Marvez wrote that it's believed the team knew about the bullying but didn't step in, and the team's veterans didn't step in either. The team didn't comment on whether they knew about the abusive environment.

You'd think that teammates would support one of their own, a player who had started every game at tackle this season before he left the team and missed Thursday night's game. Or that they would at very least act like adults and professionals. It sounds like that was too much to ask of the Dolphins players.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Y! SPORTS

You'd think that a group of grown men would be beyond bullying a co-worker, but that apparently wasn't the case in the Miami Dolphins' locker room.

Reports surfaced earlier this week of Dolphins tackle Jonathan Martin slamming his food tray down in the cafeteria and leaving the team after his teammates got up when he went to sit with them. Not surprisingly, it wasn't just one incident that set Martin off.

Fox Sports reported on an "abusive environment" toward Martin during his season-and-a-half with the Dolphins. The report said there has been persistent bullying and teasing of him, including personal and family insults, and even an unflattering nickname of "Big Weirdo."

Seriously, these are grown men doing this to another grown man.


Martin was inactive for Thursday night's game against the Cincinnati Bengals, and there's no word on when he'll return to the Dolphins.



There is typically minor rookie hazing in the NFL but Fox Sports said this went beyond that for Martin, a 6-foot-5, 312-pound tackle who was Miami's second-round pick out of Stanford last year. Fox Sports' Alex Marvez wrote that it's believed the team knew about the bullying but didn't step in, and the team's veterans didn't step in either. The team didn't comment on whether they knew about the abusive environment.

You'd think that teammates would support one of their own, a player who had started every game at tackle this season before he left the team and missed Thursday night's game. Or that they would at very least act like adults and professionals. It sounds like that was too much to ask of the Dolphins players.

Some people will always be assholes I suppose is all I can say about this.

 

[iknowftbll]

I'm not sure what to make of it, Morph. Martin himself reportedly tweeted not to believe everything you read. And teammates are being supportive of him.

In the world I live in and you once lived in, trust and acceptance by your peers is everything, though. If you don't have that, it's easy to feel isolated. Wouldn't you agree? If the stories are true, these guys need to reach out and explain they didn't mean anything by it. It may well have been in good fun, but hit Martin in the wrong way. And the outburst is likely just an outward symptom of a deeper problem. Now that the team is aware of this, they need to reach out and let the man know they are there for him. Rebuild that trust. Someone who plays O-line is the boss of that group of players in that locker room. He may have been in on it, but as a leader he needs to recognize they went too far and start correcting it by reaching out as well as making sure the other players on that line keep things in line going forward.

Just my thoughts. I recognize I know very little about this situation though, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I'm not sure what to make of it, Morph. Martin himself reportedly tweeted not to believe everything you read. And teammates are being supportive of him.

In the world I live in and you once lived in, trust and acceptance by your peers is everything, though. If you don't have that, it's easy to feel isolated. Wouldn't you agree? If the stories are true, these guys need to reach out and explain they didn't mean anything by it. It may well have been in good fun, but hit Martin in the wrong way. And the outburst is likely just an outward symptom of a deeper problem. Now that the team is aware of this, they need to reach out and let the man know they are there for him. Rebuild that trust. Someone who plays O-line is the boss of that group of players in that locker room. He may have been in on it, but as a leader he needs to recognize they went too far and start correcting it by reaching out as well as making sure the other players on that line keep things in line going forward.

Just my thoughts. I recognize I know very little about this situation though, so take it with a grain of salt.

Very true, Martin even mentioned as such on his facebook as well.

 

[Broncosballer32]

Well, what we do not have is the whole story. We have a media that is very thirsty over certain words or phrases. BULLYING is one of those words. They tend to report things one way and omit other things.

Having said that, is sounds like a classical snow ball situation. We all read Lord of the Flies.

Having said that, I feel sorry for him if what is being reported is true. Sad really.

 

[Morpheus]

If any of it is even partly true the Dolphins may have some problems in the Locker room.

What is absolutely true is he started as a rookie at Tackle every game until last night and played well for a rookie.

So why did they deactivate him?

 

[Broncosr0k]

So why did they deactivate him?

They are the dolphins, being a good team is not in their nature.

 

[Morpheus]

Y! SPORTS

Looks like the problem, is worse than it first appeared in Miami.,

 

[MrDoc420]

Richie Incognito is just a scumbag. Always has been and always will be. I actually would've much rather heard about Marting breaking his jaw, therefore ending his season.

Richie Incognito......couldn't have hand picked a bigger douchebag name for a big douchebag person.

Probably has about a 24 IQ to go with it.

 

[cdumler7]

I remember in football going through the freshman/rookie hazing and understanding it was part of the culture of football and being fine with it. I honestly did not mind it as it was in a way a good team building activity that in the end all of us could laugh about. After the first time of doing something though I was accepted onto the team and all hazing ended at that point. Now I can see how others would get upset as we did have a few who did get upset from it so to me I wouldn't mind seeing it gone as it does not work with everybody.

In this situation and what RI did to me I think there should be criminal charges brought up against him and if all the stories coming out are true the veteran players who took money from these rookies should pay back every dime they took plus interest as that is ridiculous if true. From the sound of it many of these guys are broke now because of what these veterans did and when the average NFL career these days is 3 years these guys need every penny they can get. Not everybody makes $20 million a year. Many of these guys make the minimum which yes is a nice pretty penny but after taxes, agent fees, and everything else it really does not add up to much and considering many of these guys have health problems and very few marketable skills beyond being a football player I can see why so many struggle after football financially.

 

[Morpheus]

Here is a pretty good article that sheds a little light on the culture in the NFL locker room and that the situation in Miami is not exactly an aberration.

Hillenmeyer 'hated coming into work' because of Kreutz - chicagotribune.com

Bullying in the NFL has come under scrutiny this week after the suspension of Miami Dolphins guard Richie Incognito for his abusive treatment of teammate Jonathan Martin, and former Chicago Bears linebacker Hunter Hillenmeyer said the incident reminds him of his feelings toward the team's former center and locker-room leader Olin Kreutz.

“The first year I filled in for (Brian) Urlacher when he was on injured reserve for a large part of the year (2004), I hated coming into work because of Olin," Hillenmeyer told Matt Spiegel and Laurence Holmes of WSCR-AM 670 on Wednesday. "Because he was a jerk. He was riding me because I was the third-year guy, or second-year guy, trying to fill in for a superstar. So I can relate in a sense that, you’re going to have people in your workplace that you don’t necessarily like."

Asked how he dealt with it and whether he had a support system within the Bears, Hillenmeyer said, "Olin led in a certain way. I would go to the grave acknowledging that he thought that everything he was always doing was in the best interest of the team. I don’t want that to come across like I’m admonishing him or saying that he was a bad leader. Because he was a great leader, but at the same time, when you have a room full of alpha males who were all the best player on their high school teams and one of the best players on their college team, to get everyone to buy in and fall into line, you need people that take leadership roles in an aggressive way like that."

Dolphins coaches reportedly encouraged Incognito to pressure Martin into conforming with the code of the locker room, and Hillenmeyer said team management often will look the other way.

"If you’re (former Bears general manager) Jerry Angelo or you’re (former Bears coach) Lovie Smith, as much as you might not approve of some of the methods, you like the results," he said of Kreutz's behavior. "People were going to come to OTAs and they weren’t going to have loose lips with the media, they weren’t going to do a lot of things to damage the locker room – not because they didn’t want to, but because they were scared of Olin.

"You need guys like that in the locker room, and coaches tend to just let it happen unless there's something egregious going on that's right under their nose."

 

[Broncos6482]

I really doubt that what was happening in Miami was much different than what goes on in every locker room in the NFL. Here's another side to the puzzle.

Richie Incognito never bullied Jonathan Martin, Lydon Murtha says | The MMQB with Peter King

 

[Morpheus]

I think that it is important to realize a few things about the Dolphins story. The media is running with it a bit and social buzzwords like "Bullying" and "workplace harassment" are being thrown around pretty loosely.

I am not going to defend or make excuses for Richie Incognito. In MY opinion, he took it way too far, but I also think that in general, that kind of culture is tolerated in most NFL locker rooms and coaches will look the other way as long as things don't get out of control and they get the results they want.

The tendency to handle things with in the team and not let outsiders in is common and not unique to NFL locker rooms.

Hell, the hazing and bullshit we pulled when I was in Army Special Ops would probably be considered felonious activity these days. But we had a brotherhood and comrades in arms mentality that people outside the unit would not understand and we felt we did not need to explain ourselves to any outsiders. We put our lives on the line and felt we owed no one any explanation as long as we did not actually hurt anyone (too seriously anyway) and did not violate the UCMJ or break any federal laws.

I guess in a way an NFL locker room is similar in that respect. These guys are warriors and have a gladiator mentality and risk their bodies. They feel as if they do not need to explain to anyone outside that locker room how they accomplish what they need to do and coaches will look the other way like our CO would as long as things don't get out of hand.

We never got too personal and always left families out of it. You could haze a guy all you want and call him any name in the book but wives, kids and family were off limits.

I think that Richie Incognito went too far and the culture in an NFL locker room empowered him to do whatever he wanted. In a way it is a reflection on how the fabric of our society is deteriorating. Things are not off limits. Classless and tasteless are not boundaries that are respected much anymore.

Incognito feels he did nothing wrong and his teammates and former teammates are standing up for him. Jonathan Martin is viewed as too soft and needs to toughen up and get thicker skin.

Maybe the problem isn't just in the Dolphins locker room but in our society in general.

 

[cdumler7]

This whole story has been just about impossible to keep up with as everyday brings new things to light. I agree Morpheus in the rest of society doesn't always understand how environments like the NFL or some in the military can allow these kind of things to happen but don't understand that these environments turn into more of a family/brotherhood than an actual workplace. Now when it comes to Icognito I agree he took things way too far. With more evidence coming out it does seem that Martin has some issues that he needs to work on. As a leader in that locker room and Icognito now being called his best friend he should have known that maybe some of these childish things that he and others were doing were not going to be good for the overall motivating of Martin.

 

[Broncosballer32]

I really doubt that what was happening in Miami was much different than what goes on in every locker room in the NFL. Here's another side to the puzzle.

Richie Incognito never bullied Jonathan Martin, Lydon Murtha says | The MMQB with Peter King

From the article. This puts a real different perspective on it, and it should really speak volumes that virtually the entire team defends Incognito, including all of the black players.

This part here:

From the beginning, when he was drafted in April 2012, Martin did not seem to want to be one of the group. He came off as standoffish and shy to the rest of the offensive linemen. He couldn’t look anyone in the eye, which was puzzling for a football player at this level on a team full of grown-ass men. We all asked the same question: Why won’t he be open with us? What’s with the wall being put up? I never really figured it out. He did something I’d never seen before by balking at the idea of paying for a rookie dinner, which is a meal for a position group paid for by rookies. (For example, I paid $9,600 for one my rookie year.) I don’t know if Martin ever ended up paying for one, as I was cut before seeing the outcome.

Martin had a tendency to tank when things would get difficult in practice, and Incognito would lift him up. He’d say, there’s always tomorrow. Richie has been more kind to Martin than any other player.

In other situations, when Martin wasn’t showing effort, Richie would give him a lot of crap. He was a leader on the team, and he would get in your face if you were unprepared or playing poorly. The crap he would give Martin was no more than he gave anyone else, including me. Other players said the same things Incognito said to Martin, so you’d need to suspend the whole team if you suspend Incognito.

Which brings me to my first point: I don’t believe Richie Incognito bullied Jonathan Martin. I never saw Martin singled out, excluded from anything, or treated any differently than the rest of us. We’d have dinners and the occasional night out, and everyone was invited. He was never told he can’t be a part of this. It was the exact opposite. But when he came out, he was very standoffish. That’s why the coaches told the leaders, bring him out of his shell. Figure him out a little bit.


Those that are crushing Incognito (typical ESPN hype shit) are NOT in the locker room. They heard ONE word, and that is it and that is all.

Now, there will be this "investigation" and they will ignore this ASPECT of the situation. The media types (you know the ones) will not let go of the N word. They will probably ignore that Martin laughed and joked about the voice mail. The NFL will now ban all perceived hazing. The rite of passage will be done away with. Most of the media types all belonged to frats in their universities and they all went through and participated in hazing. Like typical hypocrites, that is all so different. Of course. Of course. I am surprised Hal Chapman Wingo III has not posed with a Dolphins Martin jersey. Considering he indeed belong to a frat at Baylor....oh never mind. Oh, Hal Chapman Wingo III is better known as Trey Wingo.

We do not know what it was all about, but what we do see is virtually no one on the Dolphins defending Martin. When the black players on the team defend Incognito, regardless of him using the N word, that should tell us a lot more than the speculations from people that are nothing but politically correct hacks.

 

[Morpheus]

From the article. This puts a real different perspective on it, and it should really speak volumes that virtually the entire team defends Incognito, including all of the black players.

This part here:

From the beginning, when he was drafted in April 2012, Martin did not seem to want to be one of the group. He came off as standoffish and shy to the rest of the offensive linemen. He couldn’t look anyone in the eye, which was puzzling for a football player at this level on a team full of grown-ass men. We all asked the same question: Why won’t he be open with us? What’s with the wall being put up? I never really figured it out. He did something I’d never seen before by balking at the idea of paying for a rookie dinner, which is a meal for a position group paid for by rookies. (For example, I paid $9,600 for one my rookie year.) I don’t know if Martin ever ended up paying for one, as I was cut before seeing the outcome.

Martin had a tendency to tank when things would get difficult in practice, and Incognito would lift him up. He’d say, there’s always tomorrow. Richie has been more kind to Martin than any other player.

In other situations, when Martin wasn’t showing effort, Richie would give him a lot of crap. He was a leader on the team, and he would get in your face if you were unprepared or playing poorly. The crap he would give Martin was no more than he gave anyone else, including me. Other players said the same things Incognito said to Martin, so you’d need to suspend the whole team if you suspend Incognito.

Which brings me to my first point: I don’t believe Richie Incognito bullied Jonathan Martin. I never saw Martin singled out, excluded from anything, or treated any differently than the rest of us. We’d have dinners and the occasional night out, and everyone was invited. He was never told he can’t be a part of this. It was the exact opposite. But when he came out, he was very standoffish. That’s why the coaches told the leaders, bring him out of his shell. Figure him out a little bit.


Those that are crushing Incognito (typical ESPN hype shit) are NOT in the locker room. They heard ONE word, and that is it and that is all.

Now, there will be this "investigation" and they will ignore this ASPECT of the situation. The media types (you know the ones) will not let go of the N word. They will probably ignore that Martin laughed and joked about the voice mail. The NFL will now ban all perceived hazing. The rite of passage will be done away with. Most of the media types all belonged to frats in their universities and they all went through and participated in hazing. Like typical hypocrites, that is all so different. Of course. Of course. I am surprised Hal Chapman Wingo III has not posed with a Dolphins Martin jersey. Considering he indeed belong to a frat at Baylor....oh never mind. Oh, Hal Chapman Wingo III is better known as Trey Wingo.

We do not know what it was all about, but what we do see is virtually no one on the Dolphins defending Martin. When the black players on the team defend Incognito, regardless of him using the N word, that should tell us a lot more than the speculations from people that are nothing but politically correct hacks.

So do you think that what happened in Miami is ok?

It seems to me that they are standing up for a teammate (and not every player has spoken out, especially the African American players) and protecting their privacy in the locker room.

In that environment, what they say to each other can be taken in a lighter context. I am sure that in most NFL locker rooms, insults and slurs are thrown around loosely.

But my perception is that in Miami, it is a little looser and a little more volatile than most NFL locker rooms, and while management and the coaching staff turn a blind eye to most things as long as they do not get out of control, It seems in Miami, Jeff Ireland said he should have "punched him in the face" and the coaching staff encouraged the hazing and empowered a guy witha very checkered past to "toughen a guy up" without realizing what lengths he would go to in his crazy point of view. They encouraged a guy who was already out of control to do what was needed to toughen up a guy who was perceived as "soft".

Regardless of what players say, some of the things that occurred violate the law still.

If Management and coaches knowingly encouraged players to do these things that promote a work environment that turns a blind eye to harassment, they are opening themselves up to a lawsuit and possibly criminal charges.

It may be commonplace to haze rookies and joke around and insult them to a point. But what Richie Incognito did goes beyond the bounds of taste and class and is just downright ugly and wrong not to mention illegal. I think that is the point a lot of people are missing. It may be common place in NFL Locker rooms, but it pushes the boundaries of legality, and while Jonathan Martin may be perceived as "soft" or "sensitive" for what he did, he is still protected by the law and does not have to put up with harassment in the workplace.

Richie Incognito's sense of what is right and wrong is seriously screwed up.

 

[Morpheus]

Good article by Michael Silver

Miami Dolphins controversy is not simply about Richie Incognito - NFL.com

Eight months ago, on the final night of the annual league meeting, I sat in a booth at City Hall Steakhouse in Scottsdale, Ariz., and talked about leadership with Richie Incognito.

Before the first appetizer arrived, Incognito, a Miami Dolphins guard coming off his first Pro Bowl appearance, brought up the recent (Karlos Dansby, Reggie Bush) and impending (Jake Long) departures of several key veterans.

"They got rid of all the leaders," Incognito said. "I'm going to have to fill that void -- I know that."

In his own, admittedly twisted, way, Incognito attempted to do just that, projecting his personality throughout the Dolphins' locker room in a large-and-in-charge manner. And while the results have been disastrous -- Incognito was suspended indefinitely Sunday for conduct detrimental to the team after coach Joe Philbin and general manager Jeff Ireland learned of his racially charged voice mail to troubled teammate Jonathan Martin -- something tells me that when all is said and done, there'll be plenty of blame to go around.

On Wednesday, the Sun Sentinel reported that Dolphins coaches had asked Incognito to "toughen up" Martin after the second-year pro missed a voluntary workout last spring -- an edict that seemed to precipitate the voice mail, which also contained the words "I'll kill you." The organization had no response to the report, citing an ongoing NFL investigation.

On Thursday, the league announced that NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell had appointed New York-based criminal lawyer Ted Wells to direct an independent probe into "issues of workplace conduct" within the Dolphins organization.

Getcha popcorn ready: This is not going to end well.

As the scabs are pulled and the underbelly of NFL locker-room culture is examined and evaluated, we will want answers -- and they might not be as clear-cut and convenient as some would lead you to believe.

For starters, the relationship between Incognito and Martin, who left the team last week and checked himself into a hospital, is more nuanced than most outsiders realize.

Clearly, as comments Wednesday from Dolphins quarterback Ryan Tannehill illustrate, Incognito considered Martin a good friend -- and those feelings seemingly were reciprocated.


"If you asked Jonathan Martin who his best friend is on this team two weeks ago, he'd say Richie Incognito," Tannehill told reporters. "First guy to stand up for Jonathan when anything went down on the field, any kind of tussle, Richie was the first guy there. When they wanted to hang out outside of football, who was together? Richie and Jonathan."

Through the prism that this type of declaration creates, it's tough to reconcile the charge that Incognito was bullying Martin. This is not to say the two men might not have been perceiving their interactions and overall relationship in somewhat divergent terms -- or that it is ever OK to make the kind of racially disparaging comments Incognito did on the voice mail in question.

Yet "bullying" connotes a concerted and mean-spirited attempt to harass and intimidate another teammate -- and I'll be surprised if Incognito's behavior ultimately is judged to fall into that category. I've seen players shunned, ostracized and harassed by a majority of their teammates; this was not the case with Martin, who was communicating with Incognito in a manner suggesting friendship as recently as Sunday afternoon.

There's still a lot that hasn't been uncovered. What if, for example, we learn Martin made similarly extreme, loaded and over-the-top statements to Incognito? If neither player took such language to be literally threatening, that would significantly alter the context.

The fact that Martin still had Incognito's months-old voice mail saved on his phone strikes me as potentially substantial -- perhaps, to him, this was an instance in which a line had been crossed, regardless of whether the man who crossed it was aware of this. Let's remember, first and foremost, that issues of emotional distress are complex and serious -- and that even if Martin is dealing with legitimate workplace harassment, he's also fighting something far more severe.


We also should consider the fact that the alleged perpetrator, Incognito, has dealt with mental-health issues in his past, adding another layer of complication to the situation.

And there is no shortage of layering: Consider the lack of overt outrage about Incognito's racist comments in the Miami locker room -- and, in fact, almost a uniform show of support from the Dolphins for their chastened teammate. On Thursday, the Miami Herald's Armando Salguero reported that, according to multiple sources, Incognito, though white, is considered an "honorary black man" by his teammates, whereas Martin (who is, in fact, biracial) is considered "less black" than Incognito.

This, in turn, brings up issues of background (Martin is from a well-to-do family with a wall's worth of Ivy League degrees) and perceived "softness" -- and the notion that Martin, by allowing the rough-around-the-edges Incognito to be scapegoated, is in some way acting in a dishonorable fashion.

Dolphins offensive tackle Tyson Clabo said Martin "needs to stand up and be a man. I don't know why he's doing this."

If you're starting to sense that the Dolphins aren't on message -- and that this important and complex crisis has the potential to get a lot worse in the coming weeks -- well, trust your instincts.

Though, by NFL policy, Martin (to the extent that he ever gets well enough to resume his career) cannot be retaliated against for reporting an unsafe workplace environment, he is provoking plenty of skepticism in league circles and within his own locker room.

This brings us back to the Dolphins' leadership issues that came up during that dinner in Scottsdale in March. If this investigation reveals organizational dysfunction, it would not be surprising to see Philbin and Ireland lose their jobs.


And it could be worse: Should evidence exist that Incognito was acting at the behest of one or both of his superiors, we'd be getting into "A Few Good Men" territory. Essentially, we might be looking at a situation in which authority figures in the organization ordered a player with a history of anger issues and mental instability to carry out a Code Red on a player struggling with issues of emotional stress, and the player in question complied in his own, untidy way.

If that is what went down, can we handle the truth?

The truth is that, for better or worse, an NFL locker room is a subculture unto itself where everyone (myself included) gets messed with and has to learn how to navigate the situation in order to survive and thrive. We can have a much longer conversation about the relative merit of this state of affairs, and I truly hope no one uses it as a rationalization for insensitivity to mental-health/emotional-stress issues, racism, true harassment or violent retaliation, because those things are never acceptable under the law.

That said, this is the mini-universe in which some of us reside, and we can't completely discard the ethos of intra-team dynamics and the perspective from which many football people are processing this burgeoning fiasco.

I'll leave you with the words of one NFL lifer who works in an NFC team's personnel department -- and please, rest assured that they are not the divergent rants of an outlier:

"Locker rooms have nothing to do with what people consider to be 'real America.' Really, football and normal society have nothing in common. Football locker rooms are the most libertarian societies in America.


"It's actually real America. It's no holds barred on anything, and if you have an issue, you solve it with your family. You don't run for the hills and hide or start being a (expletive); you face your (expletive) demons.

"If you had a politically correct team full of Jonathan Martins, the fans of that team would be (expletive) pissed. You need Incognito on that wall."

In a perfect world -- or, if we can get there, in a better, more evolved NFL subculture -- there'd be room for both types of teammate. In the meantime, prepare for a maelstrom of blame, conflict and pink slips.

For when all is said and done, it might well be that Incognito is merely the first domino to fall.

 

[Broncosballer32]

So do you think that what happened in Miami is ok?

It seems to me that they are standing up for a teammate (and not every player has spoken out, especially the African American players) and protecting their privacy in the locker room.

In that environment, what they say to each other can be taken in a lighter context. I am sure that in most NFL locker rooms, insults and slurs are thrown around loosely.

But my perception is that in Miami, it is a little looser and a little more volatile than most NFL locker rooms, and while management and the coaching staff turn a blind eye to most things as long as they do not get out of control, It seems in Miami, Jeff Ireland said he should have "punched him in the face" and the coaching staff encouraged the hazing and empowered a guy witha very checkered past to "toughen a guy up" without realizing what lengths he would go to in his crazy point of view. They encouraged a guy who was already out of control to do what was needed to toughen up a guy who was perceived as "soft".

Regardless of what players say, some of the things that occurred violate the law still.

If Management and coaches knowingly encouraged players to do these things that promote a work environment that turns a blind eye to harassment, they are opening themselves up to a lawsuit and possibly criminal charges.

It may be commonplace to haze rookies and joke around and insult them to a point. But what Richie Incognito did goes beyond the bounds of taste and class and is just downright ugly and wrong not to mention illegal. I think that is the point a lot of people are missing. It may be common place in NFL Locker rooms, but it pushes the boundaries of legality, and while Jonathan Martin may be perceived as "soft" or "sensitive" for what he did, he is still protected by the law and does not have to put up with harassment in the workplace.

Richie Incognito's sense of what is right and wrong is seriously screwed up.

I have seen and heard a lot worse or as bad recordings from teammates. Not just to me, but left on others. I was a walk on at Florida State many years ago. I saw things with in the team and in the locker room that I would not tell anyone. People would test you. Literally, test you. Now, if I took any of those things that were said, and those quotes were reported on the news outlets, you would think a lot less of a lot of players. There are a few too that were in the NFL and you very much know their names. I am not going to reveal those things. No way.

The thing that comes across to me in this situation is that the team (all of them) are not defending Martin. Those observations from Murtha are significant. They really do show a side that would indeed piss certain people off.

Let me be more clear. Football locker rooms are not filled with thespians or future nobel laureates, ok? There is a primal thing that does exist, and it does sink into animalistic or neanderthal type of stuff. It is NOT a place for the feint of heart or critical thinkers. In our Twitter world the curtain is often raised, and what we see we do not like. I am trying to tell many of these people what exists.

Now, lets get to this notion of how Incognito was actually referred to as MORE black than Martin. That is what was actually reportedly said by the black teammates. I will refer to the movie Glory. Ever see that movie. If you have, Denzel Washington's character had no respect for the black guy that was never a slave. Who grew up privileged and that character was condescending to him and the rest of them. He considered them all ignorant. In the end it was actually him, that was the ignorant one, regardless of how educated he was.

The point is many of the "brothers" resent that type of elitist mentality from anyone. Especially so from a fellow brother. Am I generalizing? Yeah, but it is a pretty accurate observation. Anyone denying this, is very naive about a lot of stuff. Hence, the reason why so many are so confused by the reaction from the black teammates of the Dolphins. In this case, they are the actual "experts." Cause they are the ones in it. All of us are merely speculating. Regardless of your education, we are guessing. I am going by what the people inside are actually saying. Not by the talking heads in the media whose biased points of view are clearly obvious, and who are as condescending as the character in that movie. They almost refuse to even hear them. Refer to them as ignorant. It is humorous in some ways.

Watch this clip from Glory, in case you never saw it.

 

[Broncos6482]

Something else to add to the discussion. Ben Hochman, one of the Broncos beat writers for the Denver Post, just tweeted this.

"I asked Terrance Knighton if he'd be cool with Incognito on team. 'Absolutely.' Martin? 'Hed have a hard time finding friends in here.'

I think that's pretty telling.

 

[Broncos6482]

So do you think that what happened in Miami is ok?

It seems to me that they are standing up for a teammate (and not every player has spoken out, especially the African American players) and protecting their privacy in the locker room.

In that environment, what they say to each other can be taken in a lighter context. I am sure that in most NFL locker rooms, insults and slurs are thrown around loosely.

But my perception is that in Miami, it is a little looser and a little more volatile than most NFL locker rooms, and while management and the coaching staff turn a blind eye to most things as long as they do not get out of control, It seems in Miami, Jeff Ireland said he should have "punched him in the face" and the coaching staff encouraged the hazing and empowered a guy witha very checkered past to "toughen a guy up" without realizing what lengths he would go to in his crazy point of view. They encouraged a guy who was already out of control to do what was needed to toughen up a guy who was perceived as "soft".

That's pure speculation on your part, Morph. We really have no idea if what happened in Miami is any better or any worse than what goes on in every other locker room in the NFL.

Here's another thought; according to that article in MMQB, Incognito and Martin were close friends. If that is true, that certainly changes the context of what was said in voice messages and texts. I'm sure everyone has threatened to kill a friend before, or said derogatory things to them in a joking manner. I'm not saying that makes it ok, just pointing out that there are more layers to this than the "Incognito bullied and threateded Martin Incessantly" story that first came out.