What's your take on this?

[Broncosballer32]

Yeah, because Incognito's word is "gold" right now....

Seems rather odd and suspect to me that Ritchie had "saved" so many text messages between he and Martin. 1142? Heck, on my phone the text program only holds the last 200 or so messages in a convo. Most smart phones I know of only keep at most the last 250 (including iPhone). And somehow Incognito has over 1,000? Really? Sounds like he's trying really hard to save his own a**.

No, it is not JUST HIS WORD. It is the reaction of the ENTIRE DOLPHINS FOOTBALL team. What if there are texts that Martin said he was going to kill his entire family?

What I cannot tell by your reaction is this. Are you saying IF all of the things Incognito said are true, are you then on Incognito's side like the rest of the Dolphins team are?

Like I said, it is plain to me that the media types (you know the ones) love to harp on anything that they perceive as racial crimes. Especially when it is white on black. I can name example after example after example.

What has confused those types in this particular case (it confused them too) was how the black teammates, all in unison, came to the defense of the player (white player) that used the N word. Talk about things not fitting the narrative. Of course, they then call the DOlphins team foolish. I heard Stephen A Smith call them (Mike Wallace) fools etc etc.

Now, there are more and more things that coming out that do not fit the narrative. I have been saying this from the beginning. We see a clear and articulate person voicing exactly what the entire team has been saying. That they have been friends. That they did everything together.


It is becoming more and more plain to me that Martin is looking to get an out of court settlement and he used this to bring a case against the Dolphins/NFL. He will have the public behind him, due to the racial nature of it.

Two things are going to happen. One, he will get that pay out, and the "culture" of the NFL will change. They will be forced into almost a kindergarten school like environment. All due to something that was either greatly exaggerated.

Martin's motives are becoming clear, and that is the only thing that really makes sense about this. Cause everything does not fit with what we are hearing.

 

[WalkerBoh]

Were that really the case, Deadspin would be all over that. Unfortunately, the only person that seems to be making this speculation is you. What's the motive? Money? He has his contract, and his family is quite well off. I have my doubts on that one, but feel free to speculate wildly.

I don't put any stock in hearsay, and that's what I'm hearing from SOME Dolphins players. It's not the whole team, as I've heard some Dolphins players on the other side as well. I maintain the real truth is somewhere in the middle of the media narrative and Incognito's plea for innocence. Incognito is far from a saint. He was kicked off of TWO NCAA football teams, blacklisted off several NFL draft lists, and named the "Dirtiest Player in the NFL" by his peers. You don't earn that reputation by being the Mr. Nice guy Incognito would have us all believe he is. He's just "Misunderstood" after all, right?

Like I said earlier, the bully narrative by the media is a crock, but at the same time I have no doubt Incognito was an a** towards Martin.

 

[Broncosballer32]

Were that really the case, Deadspin would be all over that. Unfortunately, the only person that seems to be making this speculation is you. What's the motive? Money? He has his contract, and his family is quite well off. I have my doubts on that one, but feel free to speculate wildly.

I don't put any stock in hearsay, and that's what I'm hearing from SOME Dolphins players. It's not the whole team, as I've heard some Dolphins players on the other side as well. I maintain the real truth is somewhere in the middle of the media narrative and Incognito's plea for innocence. Incognito is far from a saint. He was kicked off of TWO NCAA football teams, blacklisted off several NFL draft lists, and named the "Dirtiest Player in the NFL" by his peers. You don't earn that reputation by being the Mr. Nice guy Incognito would have us all believe he is. He's just "Misunderstood" after all, right?

Like I said earlier, the bully narrative by the media is a crock, but at the same time I have no doubt Incognito was an a** towards Martin.

You put nothing in hearsay? You put nothing in the fact that no one on the team defends him? How about the 1,124 texts that Glazer received from Incognito between him and Martin?

You see some of the quotes in those texts? In one of them Martin absolves Incognito, AFTER he left the team. It is confirmed that it was indeed a text from Martin.

Is that hearsay too?

No, it actually isn't. You bringing up the past of Incognito is irrelevant. If he was that bad, then explain to me why Martin was his best friend, and why he exchanged so many texts.

The only thing that has been true, is most people have made their opinions about Incognito, and it is mainly based on fallacies or misunderstandings. Almost all of the biased opnions or JUDGMENTS on Incognito is due to the N word and it is that simple.

So again, what if all of things said by Incognito are true? How does that change your paradigm or view on the situation? What does it mean to you that they exchanged so many texts over time, and what does it say to you that Martin absolved Incognito in one of those after he left the team? Nothing? Really?

 

[Broncos6482]

Yeah, because Incognito's word is "gold" right now....

It's not just about Incognito's word. It's about his word, and the text messages (both the number and content), it's about the post blow up texts, and it's about Incognito's teammates defending him.

Seems rather odd and suspect to me that Ritchie had "saved" so many text messages between he and Martin. 1142? Heck, on my phone the text program only holds the last 200 or so messages in a convo. Most smart phones I know of only keep at most the last 250. And somehow Incognito has over 1,000? Really? Sounds like he's trying really hard to save his own a**.

Do we know that he had them saved on his phone? It could have been that they went to the phone company and got them printed out after the blow up. Besides, how he got them or why he kept them is irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that they exist and that they back up Incognito and his teammates regarding Incognito's friendship with Martin. I don't know about you but I certainly don't send over 1,100 texts to someone I don't like, and I definitely wouldn't be sending a text that says "I'm going to kill your family" to a guy that was bullying me.

 

[WalkerBoh]

Hardly in the past. Latest incident was only a few months ago.

Still doesn't change my opinion that Incognito was being an a** to Martin. Maybe he didn't think he was, but perhaps Martin felt he took it too far. Even Incognito admits he took things too far.

I don't buy the conspiracy narrative you're pushing. I don't buy the "Mr. Nice Guy" act either from Incognito. I think he can be nice when he wants to be, but is otherwise just an a**. I also don't buy the press narrative. I see two guys who have different issues that they both need to deal with. That's it. Is Incognito guilty of bullying? Probably not. Is he totally innocent? Probably not.

 

[Broncos6482]

Still doesn't change my opinion that Incognito was being an a** to Martin. Maybe he didn't think he was, but perhaps Martin felt he took it too far. Even Incognito admits he took things too far.

The only thing is, it seems Martin was acting the same way right back toward Incognito. Hard to blame Incognito when that's the case.

I don't buy the conspiracy narrative you're pushing. I don't buy the "Mr. Nice Guy" act either from Incognito. I think he can be nice when he wants to be, but is otherwise just an a**. I also don't buy the press narrative. I see two guys who have different issues that they both need to deal with. That's it. Is Incognito guilty of bullying? Probably not. Is he totally innocent? Probably not.

I agree with you that the conspiracy sounds pretty far fetched. I think it probably boils down to something like this. Martin is a little soft, and unsure of himself. Incognito and the boys give him the typical rookie hazing, but Incognito still develops a friendship with Martin. That friendship involves a lot of joking around that most people would find inappropriate. Martin has a hard time making the adjustment from college to the NFL, especially in the locker room, the pressure on him continues to mount, as well as the "tough love," it all gets to be too much so he decides he doesn't what to deal with it anymore and leaves.

 

[WalkerBoh]

It's not just about Incognito's word. It's about his word, and the text messages (both the number and content), it's about the post blow up texts, and it's about Incognito's teammates defending him.



Do we know that he had them saved on his phone? It could have been that they went to the phone company and got them printed out after the blow up. Besides, how he got them or why he kept them is irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that they exist and that they back up Incognito and his teammates regarding Incognito's friendship with Martin. I don't know about you but I certainly don't send over 1,100 texts to someone I don't like, and I definitely wouldn't be sending a text that says "I'm going to kill your family" to a guy that was bullying me.

And as I've already said, I don't buy into the bully narrative the media is spinning. But at the same time I don't believe Incognito is completely innocent either, and he even states in the same interview where he produces his list of texts that he took things too far.

I'm mainly saying I don't buy the conspiracy theory that Martin is conducting this grand production just to get a little extra money from the Dolphins. I think the guy's simply an introvert who isn't well equipped to handle a typical NFL locker room. Someone else I know posed the possibility that Martin's being "bullied" by the media into supporting its narrative. If there's any grand design going on here, that's the one I see as being most likely.... that this whole thing is being media driven.

 

[Broncos6482]

And as I've already said, I don't buy into the bully narrative the media is spinning. But at the same time I don't believe Incognito is completely innocent either, and he even states in the same interview where he produces his list of texts that he took things too far.

I'm mainly saying I don't buy the conspiracy theory that Martin is conducting this grand production just to get a little extra money from the Dolphins. I think the guy's simply an introvert who isn't well equipped to handle a typical NFL locker room. Someone else I know posed the possibility that Martin's being "bullied" by the media into supporting its narrative. If there's any grand design going on here, that's the one I see as being most likely.... that this whole thing is being media driven.

I agree with this. Basically what it comes down to I think is that Martin can't handle the NFL.

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

It amazes me that people are defending Incognito. I was in locker rooms for 20 years and in no way would someone have gotten away with that crap. Riley Cooper was vilified for a excited utterance (which there is no excuse) by some of his own teammates saying they didn't know if they can forgive him ETC. Now Dolphins players are ok with the treatment of Martin? Neither are acceptable but the difference is bizarre. IMO Incognito's statements to are much more offensive.

 

[Broncosballer32]

It amazes me that people are defending Incognito. I was in locker rooms for 20 years and in no way would someone have gotten away with that crap. Riley Cooper was vilified for a excited utterance (which there is no excuse) by some of his own teammates saying they didn't know if they can forgive him ETC. Now Dolphins players are ok with the treatment of Martin? Neither are acceptable but the difference is bizarre. IMO Incognito's statements to are much more offensive.

Yeap, like I said. It all begins and ends with that word. Once that word is uttered, it is over.

You can murder dogs and all will be forgiven. You can be involved in a double murder of humans, and you can be praised and hired by ESPN.

You utter those words, well it will not matter if that person called that laughed about it, or participated in the vulgarity, or if he texted that he would murder his family, or if he texted that he no problem with Incognito.

The curtain was lifted a little bit, and people got to peak inside of creepy caveman world. What type of locker room were you in? Can you be a bit more specific? NFL locker room? Division I football locker room? What kind?

There is more than one reason why the team pretty much defended Incognito. All we do know, is none of us have been in it. The ONLY ONES jumping to conclusions are those so deeply offended by that word that they cannot see ANY reason or perceived "justification" for it. He said it, and that is it and that is all.

I tried to remain a bit neutral, cause I have seen things in locker rooms 2 to 3 times as bad as that. In fact, that is rated PG 13 stuff.

Now, do we intentionally ignore that Martin said he would murder his whole family, joked about the heinous voice mail, participated in the vulgarity, or sent texts (over 1000) with the very person that was so racist? How does it fit? Ignoring those facts do not make them go away. You need to incorporate those facts into your narrative. How do you do it, other than pure speculation?

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

I was in many sports / locker rooms up to and beyond D-2.

Another thing I find really curious, Incognito was the leader at least of the O-Line? Wow. I have also been a manager for many years in my career, I was also a captain of every single team of which I played and you never "toughen up" or motivate people by speaking to them that way. Granted it's different in a locker room but the human dynamic doesn't change. I'm shocked at the stupidity that RI thought that's how you "toughen" someone up. In that interview with Glazer, RI still doesn't get it. You were dealing with a guy that is a bit different in Martin and if you're truly a leader you figure out how to motivate them. It's obvious RI is no leader. Take away the racial stuff and it's still an incredibly stupid way of motivating. The Martin side has said there is more and I'm sure it's just as bad.

Another thing I haven't seen is the outrage amongst other teams and players as there was with Cooper. I may be wrong about that but I think it was worse for Cooper. The more curious thing is that Cooper had a good reputation before his issue and RI has been known as a thug and generally a bad guy. I have got to be missing something.

 

[Broncosballer32]

I was in many sports / locker rooms up to and beyond D-2.

Another thing I find really curious, Incognito was the leader at least of the O-Line? Wow. I have also been a manager for many years in my career, I was also a captain of every single team of which I played and you never "toughen up" or motivate people by speaking to them that way. Granted it's different in a locker room but the human dynamic doesn't change. I'm shocked at the stupidity that RI thought that's how you "toughen" someone up. In that interview with Glazer, RI still doesn't get it. You were dealing with a guy that is a bit different in Martin and if you're truly a leader you figure out how to motivate them. It's obvious RI is no leader. Take away the racial stuff and it's still an incredibly stupid way of motivating. The Martin side has said there is more and I'm sure it's just as bad.

Another thing I haven't seen is the outrage amongst other teams and players as there was with Cooper. I may be wrong about that but I think it was worse for Cooper. The more curious thing is that Cooper had a good reputation before his issue and RI has been known as a thug and generally a bad guy. I have got to be missing something.

We will see when his lawyer sues over "emotional distress."

He will get an out of court settlement that will be loaded with gag rules.

He will continue to viewed as some sort of victim. People will see him as a victim, and as long as everyone sees him as a victim, is the more likely he will get that settlement. Fine, it is not about that at all. Meanwhile, the information we do have from the experts (only the ones that are in the locker room that witnessed everything) is he is far from someone that was an actual victim. Of course, in this country victims take a wide variety of people and all sorts of circumstances. (Once the N word is used and recorded, the game is up and he saved it for months while ingratiating him)

All I do know is emotional, racial grievances pay big in this country.

Let us continue to ignore that he sent hundreds and hundreds of texts with vulgarity. He laughed about the voice mail with other teammates, and participated in other things.

His parents are Ivy league lawyers, so I am assuming he was exposed to many aspects of the law. He is a Stanford student, so he is very intelligent. He hired an Ivy league attorney and he is indeed being viewed as a victim, even though he texted RI telling him that he has no clue where everything is coming from and he did not have problems with him.

 

[WalkerBoh]

If that were the case, then he's not very smart in cooperating and helping with the NFL's own investigation. If a lawsuit were his main and only goal, he'd tell the league nothing at all. But he's not doing that. And mind you, anything he tells the league in cooperation with the league's investigation could become lawsuit defense fodder later on if the NFL were named in a suit as you allege would happen along with the Dolphins.

 

[Broncosballer32]

If that were the case, then he's not very smart in cooperating and helping with the NFL's own investigation. If a lawsuit were his main and only goal, he'd tell the league nothing at all. But he's not doing that. And mind you, anything he tells the league in cooperation with the league's investigation could become lawsuit defense fodder later on if the NFL were named in a suit as you allege would happen along with the Dolphins.

Ok, IF his lawyer files a lawsuit for emotional distress will you admit there is at least a possibility?

 

[WalkerBoh]

Ok, IF his lawyer files a lawsuit for emotional distress will you admit there is at least a possibility?

If he were to file such a suit, that would make it a fact, and not simply a "possibility".

However, as of right now, I fail to see the big conspiracy that you obviously do.

And if a lawsuit is his goal, even if it's against the Dolphins, then he was really stupid to text Incognito evidence that could be used against him. If he's really out for the big payout, he's really not that smart about it at all.....

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

We will see when his lawyer sues over "emotional distress."

He will get an out of court settlement that will be loaded with gag rules.

He will continue to viewed as some sort of victim. People will see him as a victim, and as long as everyone sees him as a victim, is the more likely he will get that settlement. Fine, it is not about that at all. Meanwhile, the information we do have from the experts (only the ones that are in the locker room that witnessed everything) is he is far from someone that was an actual victim. Of course, in this country victims take a wide variety of people and all sorts of circumstances. (Once the N word is used and recorded, the game is up and he saved it for months while ingratiating him)

All I do know is emotional, racial grievances pay big in this country.

Let us continue to ignore that he sent hundreds and hundreds of texts with vulgarity. He laughed about the voice mail with other teammates, and participated in other things.

His parents are Ivy league lawyers, so I am assuming he was exposed to many aspects of the law. He is a Stanford student, so he is very intelligent. He hired an Ivy league attorney and he is indeed being viewed as a victim, even though he texted RI telling him that he has no clue where everything is coming from and he did not have problems with him.

I was only commenting on what we currently know now. That said it's impossible to know what really happened. Martin sullied his rep with the way he handled this as well. This guy is very smart and he has to know he could have potentially submarined his career. A starting RT in the NFL makes a lot of money and I doubt that he would have gone to these lengths for a quick buck, but he may have. With the stereotype against people with mental health issues especially in a machismo sport like football I doubt that he would check himself into a mental health facility for a lawsuit if he wasn't really having trouble, but again maybe he did. It sounds like the racial stuff was a pretty small part of what Martin was going through. His parents and him are obviously pretty smart it would seem to be a bad tactic throw together a racial lawsuit when a average NFL locker room is made up of 70+% African Americans.

Just pure speculation on my part but the way the locker room is coming out for Incognito and against Martin I think it's very possible that it was a "go along to get along" type of deal. Again pure speculation but Martin sounded like the different kid in class that everyone picked on and it was ok, just like in grade school. What was Martin supposed to do, complain up the chain of command? Oh wait, apparently he did and Ireland said he should punch him. Nice leadership Jeff! I suspect when (and if) we find out what happened, Martin telling on Incognito didn't go over well with his team mates and may be some of the locker room issue as well. The way the locker room has sense come out, I'm sure that would have gone over like a fart in church. JMO and completely speculative based on the facts that we currently now at this time.

 

[Broncosballer32]

He sure looks like he is in one big emotional crisis. Johnathan Martin at the Stanford USC game Saturday night. Maybe that hospital he reportedly checked into really worked some magic on him. Hey, you never know.

Question:

Is he still receiving a pay check?

 

[WalkerBoh]

Wow! Everything he does now is going to be suspect and part of some big conspiracy now isn't it?

 

[Broncosballer32]

Wow! Everything he does now is going to be suspect and part of some big conspiracy now isn't it?

Well, he is suppose to be an emotional wreck. Is he still receiving a pay check? If so, why? Cause his feelings were all hurt, cause of racial slurs?

Is that it?

Yeah, that hospital he checked into really did a number. How big are those sun glasses anyway?

 

[WalkerBoh]

Well, he is suppose to be an emotional wreck. Is he still receiving a pay check? If so, why? Cause his feelings were all hurt, cause of racial slurs?

Is that it?

Yeah, that hospital he checked into really did a number. How big are those sun glasses anyway?

Well, you know nothing of psychology then. He's at a Stanford game, obviously talking to a friend from the team. And he's far removed from the situation causing him stress. So DUH! Of course he's going to appear happier in this clip. The mind is far more complex then you seem to think it is. But you've obviously vilified Martin in your mind, and your mind is made up. So I'm not wasting any more typing on this...