What's wrong with our defense ?

[MrS]

To borrow a phrase, look at it this way, with the money we have invested in wilson we have to adapt and become a more offense oriented team.

We have been incredibly spoiled by an historically dominant defense, it was never going to stay that good as wilson developed. Im ok with this, we got to watch great defensive football for the past 4 years, now we are going to hopefully watch some powerhouse offensive football conplimented by a good to very good, but not dominant, defense.

 

[Uhsplit]

To borrow a phrase, look at it this way, with the money we have invested in wilson we have to adapt and become a more offense oriented team.

We have been incredibly spoiled by an historically dominant defense, it was never going to stay that good as wilson developed. Im ok with this, we got to watch great defensive football for the past 4 years, now we are going to hopefully watch some powerhouse offensive football conplimented by a good to very good, but not dominant, defense.

Are you saying Wilson's contract hurt the team this year and that is the main cause for our less than stellar D?

 

[Podunkparte]

Are you saying Wilson's contract hurt the team this year and that is the main cause for our less than stellar D?

Can't be. Those guys are still there (Sherm, Kam, Earl, Bennett, Avril, Wright, Wagner) so they should perform the way we're used to them playing. Money they would never have received going to Wilson this year changes nothing. It does however change the team going forward. Money will have to be allocated to the Oline because you have to keep your $20M healthy.

I know there will be a dropoff in D. Hell, there's nowhere but down for that unit to go after 2013/14. Those are historically good defenses we're talking about. It's ok though. If we can find a balance of good offense with great defense, not necessarily historically great, but great, this team can still compete for championships.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Putrid?? Now you're just being argumentative and dull. Roethlisberger's yards per attempt, completion %, and passer rating in this game were all below his season averages. Season high in # of attemps, so clearly it was a volume approach in hopes of hitting enough big ones to win. It ultimately didn't work, 'encase' you didn't notice.

So basically in your perspective our defense is fine, all the blown coverages and melting leads in the 4th quarter are just ... acceptable.. ? We held Pitt to 456 yards passing... good day for us .. ? Dude our D has SUCKED compared to last year, I won't even compare 2013 because that defense was historically good, I"m talking about just last season.. We did not see these meltdowns last year like were seeing this year defensively... PERIOD... Our 5 losses we've led in the 4th quarter, sure our O could a sealed a couple games, but our defense just seem's confused with what there running, guy's are not communicating, and were leaving receivers WIDE THE #@$^!#$ OPEN... It's unacceptable, and if it doesn't get addressed were done ... NO effin way to we compete for a championship with this defense right now the way it is.. I can accept offenses making some play's and our D just getting beat sometimes, what I can't accept is receivers going UNCOVERED ... That's a lack of discipline and communication....

 

[JMR]

So basically in your perspective our defense is fine, all the blown coverages and melting leads in the 4th quarter are just ... acceptable.. ? We held Pitt to 456 yards passing... good day for us .. ? Dude our D has SUCKED compared to last year, I won't even compare 2013 because that defense was historically good, I"m talking about just last season.. We did not see these meltdowns last year like were seeing this year defensively... PERIOD... Our 5 losses we've led in the 4th quarter, sure our O could a sealed a couple games, but our defense just seem's confused with what there running, guy's are not communicating, and were leaving receivers WIDE THE #@$^!#$ OPEN... It's unacceptable, and if it doesn't get addressed were done ... NO effin way to we compete for a championship with this defense right now the way it is....

You're acting like you get to make the rules here -- NO WAY this, and PERIOD that. Our only choices right now are there's something seriously wrong with our defense (your words: putrid secondary) or it's fine? Is there nothing in between? Get off the false dilemmas.

Of course I think the D is not as good this year. I'm just not freaking out and overreacting after this latest game like you are.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

You're acting like you get to make the rules here -- NO WAY this, and PERIOD that. Our only choices right now are there's something seriously wrong with our defense (your words: putrid secondary) or it's fine? Is there nothing in between? Get off the false dilemmas.

Of course I think the D is not as good this year. I'm just not freaking out and overreacting after this latest game like you are.

WTF are you talking about ? I"m making what rules ? And I don't think it's an over-reaction, this is not a one game thing here... You have watched every game right ?

 

[JMR]

WTF are you talking about ? I"m making what rules ? And I don't think it's an over-reaction, this is not a one game thing here... You have watched every game right ?

Of course you don't think it's an overreaction because it's your overreaction. We aren't getting anywhere. Go Hawks.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

You're acting like you get to make the rules here -- NO WAY this, and PERIOD that. Our only choices right now are there's something seriously wrong with our defense (your words: putrid secondary) or it's fine? Is there nothing in between? Get off the false dilemmas.

Of course I think the D is not as good this year. I'm just not freaking out and overreacting after this latest game like you are.

I agree our D isn't as good as last year or the year before but whose Defense is? Those were special units, and lets not kid ourselves some luck plays a part in a defense. Last year the ball bounced our way more than this year and we got lots of turnovers. We've had some opportunities to recover fumbles or get interceptions that we missed by just a hair this year. Some of those could have been game changers in a couple games.

Even after giving up all those yards to Pitts we are still the 4th ranked Defense in the NFL. A lot of teams would LOVE to have our problems on Defense. We are 8th in points allowed despite going against Palmer, Dalton, Roethlisberger, and Rodgers, and to some degree Newton. Maybe I'm a 'glass half full' kind of guy but I think we've been ok with only a couple of plays per game swinging the outcome from a W to L.

 

[JMR]

I agree our D isn't as good as last year or the year before but whose Defense is? Those were special units, and lets not kid ourselves some luck plays a part in a defense. Last year the ball bounced our way more than this year and we got lots of turnovers. We've had some opportunities to recover fumbles or get interceptions that we missed by just a hair this year. Some of those could have been game changers in a couple games.

Even after giving up all those yards to Pitts we are still the 4th ranked Defense in the NFL. A lot of teams would LOVE to have our problems on Defense. We are 8th in points allowed despite going against Palmer, Dalton, Roethlisberger, and Rodgers, and to some degree Newton. Maybe I'm a 'glass half full' kind of guy but I think we've been ok with only a couple of plays per game swinging the outcome from a W to L.

Very fair. I believe before the Pittsburgh game we had given up the fewest number (2) of 40+ yard pass plays in the league. Steelers got 3 on us, but we also got them for a few picks -- 2 on deep balls.

I'm excited to see what putting Shead in the starting lineup may do, as it seems like he may stick there now.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I agree our D isn't as good as last year or the year before but whose Defense is? Those were special units, and lets not kid ourselves some luck plays a part in a defense. Last year the ball bounced our way more than this year and we got lots of turnovers. We've had some opportunities to recover fumbles or get interceptions that we missed by just a hair this year. Some of those could have been game changers in a couple games.

Even after giving up all those yards to Pitts we are still the 4th ranked Defense in the NFL. A lot of teams would LOVE to have our problems on Defense. We are 8th in points allowed despite going against Palmer, Dalton, Roethlisberger, and Rodgers, and to some degree Newton. Maybe I'm a 'glass half full' kind of guy but I think we've been ok with only a couple of plays per game swinging the outcome from a W to L.

Rankings don't mean anything though if you don't cover a guy with the game on the line... That's the part that's been so maddening..

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Very fair. I believe before the Pittsburgh game we had given up the fewest number (2) of 40+ yard pass plays in the league. Steelers got 3 on us, but we also got them for a few picks -- 2 on deep balls.

I'm excited to see what putting Shead in the starting lineup may do, as it seems like he may stick there now.

The long plays are bit disturbing. How many of those were on Carey Williams watch I wonder? I bet most were. Shead is definitely better but he's still the weak link back there. I think Lane will help a lot once he gets the rust shaken off.

Another thing that should be considered is officiating. I'm not going to whine that we've been unfairly targetted, but in the Carolina and Zona games penalties got us the loss as much as anything. We stopped Palmer on 5 different drives only to have him given a first down from a defensive penalty. That's huge. It's as good as a turnover for Arizona. How many less yards would Palmer have thrown for if our team doesn't commit those fouls and give him a new set of downs? Officiating is a problem every team is griping about this year so between the refs being inconsistent and our own players actually committing legit fouls its part of our game that has led to some losses I think.

 

[JMR]

The long plays are bit disturbing. How many of those were on Carey Williams watch I wonder? I bet most were. Shead is definitely better but he's still the weak link back there. I think Lane will help a lot once he gets the rust shaken off.

Another thing that should be considered is officiating. I'm not going to whine that we've been unfairly targetted, but in the Carolina and Zona games penalties got us the loss as much as anything. We stopped Palmer on 5 different drives only to have him given a first down from a defensive penalty. That's huge. It's as good as a turnover for Arizona. How many less yards would Palmer have thrown for if our team doesn't commit those fouls and give him a new set of downs? Officiating is a problem every team is griping about this year so between the refs being inconsistent and our own players actually committing legit fouls its part of our game that has led to some losses I think.

On Cary Williams: not sure how many he gave up, but he was inactive Sunday and up to that point only 2 40+ plays made on our D; however, it seems like the big one he gave up to AJ Green that was called back was the transition point from playing Sherm only on one side to having him primarily lock up on the other team's biggest threat.

Shead certainly will be the weaker link, but that says more about who is on the other side. Sherman is on a HOF trajectory.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Rankings don't mean anything though if you don't cover a guy with the game on the line... That's the part that's been so maddening..

I understand that and I agree with it 100%. But to hear some people on here tell it it's like our D has fallen down to bottom 10 or something. We are still holding teams to respectable passing yards and rushing yards, plus (with a couple exceptions) we've kept the scores low too. So I think the D is doing pretty good overall. The unlucky part is allowing one or two big plays that have killed us late in games. The Offense didn't do the defense any favors early in the year either when they'd go 3 and out in the 4th quarter and not run any clock down. Honestly, I do believe some of it is just dumb luck. Game one if Kam's replacement doesn't trip over his own feet at the end of the game we probably win. It's been one or two plays a game making the difference and we just haven't been as good or lucky as last year.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I understand that and I agree with it 100%. But to hear some people on here tell it it's like our D has fallen down to bottom 10 or something. We are still holding teams to respectable passing yards and rushing yards, plus (with a couple exceptions) we've kept the scores low too. So I think the D is doing pretty good overall. The unlucky part is allowing one or two big plays that have killed us late in games. The Offense didn't do the defense any favors early in the year either when they'd go 3 and out in the 4th quarter and not run any clock down. Honestly, I do believe some of it is just dumb luck. Game one if Kam's replacement doesn't trip over his own feet at the end of the game we probably win. It's been one or two plays a game making the difference and we just haven't been as good or lucky as last year.

I was just listening to sports radio ... Evidently a lot of blame is going towards Richards, I guess he's running 11 different variations of defense and not just sticking to what worked so well for us.. the cover 3 ... Were running a lot of cover 2 with 2 safeties deep ... That's also taking away from Earls speed and sticking him to one side of the field instead of leaving Earl in the center of the field in a cover 3 ... Things are starting to become clear why there has been more confusion ...

 

[dkmightyhammer]

I was just listening to sports radio ... Evidently a lot of blame is going towards Richards, I guess he's running 11 different variations of defense and not just sticking to what worked so well for us.. the cover 3 ... Were running a lot of cover 2 with 2 safeties deep ... That's also taking away from Earls speed and sticking him to one side of the field instead of leaving Earl in the center of the field in a cover 3 ... Things are starting to become clear why there has been more confusion ...

That makes sense since there has been more finger pointing among the LOB than any other year. I think Seattle has proven that a simple scheme can work great. No need to go crazy with exotic looks or confusing play calls. Stick with what works.

 

[SonnyCID]

I'm sure Carroll has nothing to do with these decisions to run more cover 2 .

Maybe, just maybe they're running 2 deep safeties out of necessity because 1. The second corner has sucked much of the year, and 2. Thomas-Chancellor have not been playing with the range, speed and tackling ability that they usually do.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

That makes sense since there has been more finger pointing among the LOB than any other year. I think Seattle has proven that a simple scheme can work great. No need to go crazy with exotic looks or confusing play calls. Stick with what works.

Exactly...

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I'm sure Carroll has nothing to do with these decisions to run more cover 2 .

Maybe, just maybe they're running 2 deep safeties out of necessity because 1. The second corner has sucked much of the year, and 2. Thomas-Chancellor have not been playing with the range, speed and tackling ability that they usually do.

They hit on that exact topic, they weren't buying it... Cover 3 gives you 3 deep, Earl playing center field can help cover any 1 corner weakness... You don't even have to worry about Sherman... NOPE this is Richards doing things his way...

 

[SonnyCID]

That makes sense since there has been more finger pointing among the LOB than any other year. I think Seattle has proven that a simple scheme can work great. No need to go crazy with exotic looks or confusing play calls. Stick with what works.

The problem with the simple scheme is that you need GREAT play from everyone involved. The reason that complicated schemes exist is to compensate for weaknesses, which usually just leads to other weaknesses.

 

[SonnyCID]

They hit on that exact topic, they weren't buying it... Cover 3 gives you 3 deep, Earl playing center field can help cover any 1 corner weakness... You don't even have to worry about Sherman... NOPE this is Richards doing things his way...

So Richard has gone rogue?