What's Timmy's future with us?

[SF11704]

IMHO Timmy is a rather unique situation. In almost any case (other than this one) there would be suitors lining up to take a chance on him. Via FA or a trade. I don't think it would matter. This was an elite pitcher. He was truly a #1 during his CY run. Almost any team would be willing to gamble on his returning to form. There in lies the problem. I don't believe there is any team that will be willing to gamble to a tune of 20M+ over any number of years. That I believe includes us. Sort of reminds me to some extent of the Jason Schmidt saga. When he signed with LA they never got any return on that investment. His best years were with us and that's the way it stayed. I personally think Timmy is gone after this year. I don't see him taking 10-12M to stay with a team that just paid him 20M+. From a 'fan's' perspective I'm not even sure we offer him that option. It almost takes an appearance of being insulting. I also think that Wilson was caught in a similar situation.

 

[msgkings322]

IMHO Timmy is a rather unique situation. In almost any case (other than this one) there would be suitors lining up to take a chance on him. Via FA or a trade. I don't think it would matter. This was an elite pitcher. He was truly a #1 during his CY run. Almost any team would be willing to gamble on his returning to form. There in lies the problem. I don't believe there is any team that will be willing to gamble to a tune of 20M+ over any number of years. That I believe includes us. Sort of reminds me to some extent of the Jason Schmidt saga. When he signed with LA they never got any return on that investment. His best years were with us and that's the way it stayed. I personally think Timmy is gone after this year. I don't see him taking 10-12M to stay with a team that just paid him 20M+. From a 'fan's' perspective I'm not even sure we offer him that option. It almost takes an appearance of being insulting. I also think that Wilson was caught in a similar situation.

Fair points but Wilson to me is different. He's still not healthy so any offer to him was hardly an insult. He may never pitch again, should have taken the small salary + incentives we offered.

Tim is 'healthy', he's just hit that spot many do, where he has to either change (and there's no guarantee he can) or be done. Many many Cy Young level pitchers in the past have had that happen. It happens. Often due to injury but not always.

Tim will do what he will do. He and his agent will see the situation and decide accordingly, and the market will give him what he's worth. We will offer him 4th starter money, and he will either take it like he should or hope someone else overpays.

He would be smarter to try the Eckersley/Smoltz route, but maybe 4th starter money is still more than that so who knows?

 

[Heathbar012]

Freak's Funk Shack

Big Time Timmy Spliffs

 

[SF11704]

Fair points but Wilson to me is different. He's still not healthy so any offer to him was hardly an insult. He may never pitch again, should have taken the small salary + incentives we offered.

Tim is 'healthy', he's just hit that spot many do, where he has to either change (and there's no guarantee he can) or be done. Many many Cy Young level pitchers in the past have had that happen. It happens. Often due to injury but not always.

Tim will do what he will do. He and his agent will see the situation and decide accordingly, and the market will give him what he's worth. We will offer him 4th starter money, and he will either take it like he should or hope someone else overpays.

He would be smarter to try the Eckersley/Smoltz route, but maybe 4th starter money is still more than that so who knows?

I agree that Wilson should have accepted our offer. I'm not sure he was ever ready or willing to accept what was offered. I think in many cases it's easy for an individual's ego to cloud their thinking. As you stated Tim is healthy and for that reason I just don't see him moving into the Eckersley/Smoltz role. Smoltz was coming off a nasty injury in 2001 or 2000 (can't remember which) He just didn't have the endurance to go out there and throw for 7-9 innings. I think he tried early on but couldn't do it. Becoming the closer was a great move for him. I think it actually matched the time frame when John Rocker went off the deep end as well. I guess time will tell but see Timmy moving to the FA market. I also think he doesn't end-up in SEA. Some big payroll team will gamble on him .... LA is a distinct possibility ....

 

[dougplayer]

little timmy is having a tough season..again..

Giants now in 3rd place in the NL West.. behind the Dbacks and the Rockies...that's sad

 

[Stokes1931]

little timmy is having a tough season..again..

Giants now in 3rd place in the NL West.. behind the Dbacks and the Rockies...that's sad

Still bitter, Dougie?

Sadder still:

Tiggers lose WS in four games to the Giants

Michigan loses the Outback Bowl

Red Wings lose in the Western Conference to the Black Hawks

 

[SFGRTB]

Okay, it's the ASB and what a start to go into it, a no-hitter.

We saw the (almost) old Tim last night, except the mph on the fastball.

Looking at Tim's Brook'sBaseball page, I've noticed a few things about what Tim has been doing differently lately, and some of them were brought up earlier in this thread. In the first couple months, he used his 2-seamer much more often than his 4-seamer. Since June, he has used his 4-seamer more than the 2-seamer in every start. Also since the start of June, he is mixing in all his off-speed pitches. Before June, he had 3 starts where he used his curveball once or zero times. He was a fastball/changeup or fastball/slider pitcher in April/May. He's been a fastball/changeup/slider/curveball pitcher since June.

He's using his 4-seamer more in hopes to have a better idea of where it's going. He's mixing in all pitches keeping guys guessing. He's made less 2-strike mistakes. He's still racking up swings and misses.

This was pretty cool, he threw 47 changeups last night, 36 for strikes (16 swings and misses).

 

[Pattersonca65]

All comes down to money and what Lincecum wants

 

[BigDDude]

What's Timmy's future with us?


It's as a trade chip, so he can be moved to a team that wants to turn him into a closer. Just my feeling on the matter.

 

[SFAnthem]

What's Timmy's future with us?


It's as a trade chip, so he can be moved to a team that wants to turn him into a closer. Just my feeling on the matter.

Walks would kill him as a closer

He's pretty poor at holding on runners, too, a thing that's crucial in one run game situations

 

[redseat]

What has Lincecum stated about the city of San Francisco and the actual Giants as a team? If he is happy there and the Giants make a decent offer I see him staying because I honestly do not see too many teams paying that much money for him. Do people really think the Dodgers will spend to get him after what they just did? I get they like throwing money around but it hasn't helped them yet

 

[redseat]

What's Timmy's future with us?


It's as a trade chip, so he can be moved to a team that wants to turn him into a closer. Just my feeling on the matter.

Do you really see him agreeing to do this?

 

[jdwills126]

It's been reported the Tigers inquired about him last week.

 

[calsnowskier]

The prob is that 2/3 SP get paid 15+M while elite closers get about 12M. Timmeh wants to be a SP, and wants to be PAID like a SP.

As far as where he wants to play, we all assume he wants to go the Ms or the Spanks. However, we (I?) have never heard HIM say anything about this.

His best friend (reportedly) is Barry Zito. He has had a front row seat to the beating Barry has taken over the last 5 years because of his contract. He also already has enough money to allow his unborn grandkids to retire right now and live rather comfortably. He appears to be more on the laid-back side, so I wonder if he would stay with Gs or go to Seattle at a lessor salary just to be comfortable.

 

[Heathbar012]

The prob is that 2/3 SP get paid 15+M while elite closers get about 12M. Timmeh wants to be a SP, and wants to be PAID like a SP.

As far as where he wants to play, we all assume he wants to go the Ms or the Spanks. However, we (I?) have never heard HIM say anything about this.

His best friend (reportedly) is Barry Zito. He has had a front row seat to the beating Barry has taken over the last 5 years because of his contract. He also already has enough money to allow his unborn grandkids to retire right now and live rather comfortably. He appears to be more on the laid-back side, so I wonder if he would stay with Gs or go to Seattle at a lessor salary just to be comfortable.

But Detroit has such beautiful suburbs.

 

[BigDDude]

Walks would kill him as a closer - Agreed, of course.

He's pretty poor at holding on runners, too, a thing that's crucial in one run game situations - Well, I would dare say that most closers are poor at this, so to me, this would be a non issue. To me, the real issue is his health, and his ability to maintain and repeat his mechanics. And, I see him doing better at both if he were a closer vs. a starter.

And, this is coming from someone that thought his mechanics were fine, whereas a lot of people saw problems coming.

 

[BigDDude]

But Detroit has such beautiful suburbs.

He has likely been to Oakland, so, he would have an idea of what he would be in for there.......

 

[SFAnthem]

Walks would kill him as a closer - Agreed, of course.

He's pretty poor at holding on runners, too, a thing that's crucial in one run game situations - Well, I would dare say that most closers are poor at this, so to me, this would be a non issue. To me, the real issue is his health, and his ability to maintain and repeat his mechanics. And, I see him doing better at both if he were a closer vs. a starter.

And, this is coming from someone that thought his mechanics were fine, whereas a lot of people saw problems coming.

True, holding runners isn't much of a strong point for closers. What compounds this issue is that he can taken out of rhythm when switching back n forth from the stretch. If he does assume a closer role, he might just adopt a stretch position as his primary starting point.

The mechanics issue has been dissected with video on this site before. The flexibility was summarized as the main culprit