What's the deal with Gardiner?

[banditshcky11]

Kid has all the tools but it seems like he's not putting it together. Is he hurt or something? I know there have been rumors of him not fitting the model the coach wants. There's also been trade rumors but isn't the price ridiculously high for a guy not playing well?

Sorry if this was discussed elsewhere.

 

[Cobiemonster]

It's even more amazing that Randy Carlyle uses stiffs like Mark Fraser over him - it's unbelievable - I think Gardiner would thrive elsewhere

 

[DragonfromTO]

The kid had a great rookie year and then basically spent all last year getting sent down and healthy scratched as punishment for doing the things he did all throughout his rookie year that made him effective. They hammer the kid and keep telling him that he needs to play mistake free and not take any chances, and then they wonder where his offense went and why he's not as effective anymore. And whoever mentioned Fraser hit the nail on the head... if he was playing the way that Fraser does Carlyle would love him even though he'd be way less effective. Guys that move the puck well and clear the zone well always get underrated as defensive players... you never see them standing around in front of the net cross-checking someone because they're too busy getting the puck out and up ice so that no one even has to waste time in front of the net messing around with wingers.

I will all but guarantee that he ends up being traded though, and that it's in exchange for shit and he thrives wherever he ends up going.

 

[DragonfromTO]

It's even more amazing that Randy Carlyle uses stiffs like Mark Fraser over him - it's unbelievable - I think Gardiner would thrive elsewhere

I would fucking thumbs up this a thousand times if I could, then put that thumb right in Randy Carlyle's eye for good measure.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Something else that affects Gardiner's numbers but never gets mentioned... take a look at Colton Orr's most frequent icemates this year. Also makes me think that Ranger might not be as bad as he's looked too. I find it sort of funny when Gardiner's out there with the dogshit 4th line and the other team's 4th line is out there too, if you watch him skating around with those leadfoots it looks kind of like when a coach is scrimmaging with his peewee team.

Stats.HockeyAnalysis.com - COLTON ORR 2013-14 WOWY Analysis 5v5 Even Strength

 

[dash]

It's even more amazing that Randy Carlyle uses stiffs like Mark Fraser over him - it's unbelievable - I think Gardiner would thrive elsewhere

I would love Gardiner on the Flames (anything that pushes Butler deeper down the depth chart is fine by me). Squidy is a top-6 forward (yes, he's also an upcoming UFA), but he's also a Toronto area kid, he would re-sign with the Buds.

 

[banditshcky11]

I will all but guarantee that he ends up being traded though, and that it's in exchange for shit

Is this based on anything or is this just opinion because I've seen that TOR wants a major haul back for him which makes no sense because they're not really using or showcasing him now. I just can't see what his value would truly be now with what the organization has been doing to him. A 2nd & mid level prospect maybe?

 

[DragonfromTO]

Is this based on anything or is this just opinion because I've seen that TOR wants a major haul back for him which makes no sense because they're not really using or showcasing him now. I just can't see what his value would truly be now with what the organization has been doing to him. A 2nd & mid level prospect maybe?

It's opinion, but it's based on the idea that the asking price seems incredibly likely to go down if the team continues to slide down the standings and those in charge start looking for scapegoats and ways to change the on-ice results.

Where did you see that "TOR wants a major haul back for him"?

 

[DragonfromTO]

I would love Gardiner on the Flames (anything that pushes Butler deeper down the depth chart is fine by me). Squidy is a top-6 forward (yes, he's also an upcoming UFA), but he's also a Toronto area kid, he would re-sign with the Buds.

That would also free them up to trade the other guy that's probably going to get scapegoated (and it's already starting) as this team struggles to win, Kadri. Maybe for this year's version of Douglas Murray.

 

[banditshcky11]

Where did you see that "TOR wants a major haul back for him"?

Dredger said it a week or so ago and several other "professional analysts" have littered twitter with that. I believe it actually started with Gardiner for Yakapov straight up. I know both players are struggling and may not currently fit in with their teams current directions but that may have just been because Gardiner plyed really well with J Schultz before. I also saw B Schenn for Gardiner which makes no sense since B Schenn is starting to realize some of his potential and Gardiner is struggling to stay in the line-up.

So I guess what I'm asking is what do people think is a realistic return for Gardiner given his current situation? I know organizations like to trade a struggling player based off of their potential but it's kind of hard to with the coaching staff making it difficult for the player to show anything.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Dredger said it a week or so ago and several other "professional analysts" have littered twitter with that. I believe it actually started with Gardiner for Yakapov straight up. I know both players are struggling and may not currently fit in with their teams current directions but that may have just been because Gardiner plyed really well with J Schultz before. I also saw B Schenn for Gardiner which makes no sense since B Schenn is starting to realize some of his potential and Gardiner is struggling to stay in the line-up.

So I guess what I'm asking is what do people think is a realistic return for Gardiner given his current situation? I know organizations like to trade a struggling player based off of their potential but it's kind of hard to with the coaching staff making it difficult for the player to show anything.

Dreger's had a reputation for being a mouthpiece for the Leafs (and for his cousin Dave Nonis) for a while now, and if you reread some of what he's written about them recently I think you'll agree that it's pretty well deserved.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Dreger's had a reputation for being a mouthpiece for the Leafs (and for his cousin Dave Nonis) for a while now, and if you reread some of what he's written about them recently I think you'll agree that it's pretty well deserved.

I totally agree on Dreger but I think that Gardiner still has some value around the league.

I'd take him on the Sens in a New York minute. He couldn't possibly be worse than Jared "Dazed and Confused" Cowen or Eric "is this a puck or a hand grenade" Gryba.

 

[DragonfromTO]

I totally agree on Dreger but I think that Gardiner still has some value around the league.

I'd take him on the Sens in a New York minute. He couldn't possibly be worse than Jared "Dazed and Confused" Cowen or Eric "is this a puck or a hand grenade" Gryba.

I don't disagree that Gardiner has value, I'm just saying that I think that Potato and Carlyle would deal him for less than that value even if Dreger is saying that they "want" more. He's exactly the guy I'd be targeting if I was GM of a young team that had a Carlyle type veteran on it.

 

[banditshcky11]

So basically a Carlyle type veteran would be a physical 3-4 shot blocking D-man who can kill penalties, or a top 9 physical hard skater grinder type with some offensive upside. Sound like a fair assessment? If that's the type of trade they're going to make I think I have a few ideas I'll float by Homer.

Like most people I wouldn't mind having a guy like Gardiner on our roster but with his recent history it comes down to price. I actually have a feeling he'll be a part of a major trade the Leafs make at some point this season.

 

[DragonfromTO]

So basically a Carlyle type veteran would be a physical 3-4 shot blocking D-man who can kill penalties, or a top 9 physical hard skater grinder type with some offensive upside. Sound like a fair assessment? If that's the type of trade they're going to make I think I have a few ideas I'll float by Homer.

Like most people I wouldn't mind having a guy like Gardiner on our roster but with his recent history it comes down to price. I actually have a feeling he'll be a part of a major trade the Leafs make at some point this season.

His "recent history" includes having the best Corsi numbers on the Leafs' blueline this year. That's not the narrative that's being pushed right now but it's the truth. The kid isn't perfect, but he's perfectly fine.

 

[DragonfromTO]

So basically a Carlyle type veteran would be a physical 3-4 shot blocking D-man who can kill penalties, or a top 9 physical hard skater grinder type with some offensive upside. Sound like a fair assessment? If that's the type of trade they're going to make I think I have a few ideas I'll float by Homer.

Like most people I wouldn't mind having a guy like Gardiner on our roster but with his recent history it comes down to price. I actually have a feeling he'll be a part of a major trade the Leafs make at some point this season.

He definitely must punch faces. If he can't punch faces Randy probably don't want him and won't play him.

 

[raptorlife4]

Gardiner just is over rated. Still young and Is play Fraser over him any day of the week

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

If a defenseman or goalie is available Garth Snow needs to be involved in possibly acquiring him. The problem is if the goalie or defenseman makes more than the league minimum he likely won't be able to afford to acquire him.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Gardiner just is over rated. Still young and Is play Fraser over him any day of the week

I don't know what to say, because if you've watched and/or looked at any numbers and can't tell that Gardiner is better than Fraser (or that Fraser is a borderline NHLer) I'm not sure there's an argument that will be effective.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Lets be honest what Gardiner did to the Ducks was bullshit. If the Leafs can't find a place for him on their roster on a nightly basis that's their problem. I don't see any reason why they should want the moon for this kid. To me he's still a prospect who hasn't proven he belongs in the NHl yet.