what to do with murphy ?

[Darrell Green Fan]

I find myself in between Dean and GK's position. I agree with Dean's assessment of both Murphy and Long. How their respective lines have performed is kind of a strange argument, there are 4 other players as well as support from backs and tight ends to consider. And I'm also not sure why the opinion of the Raiders fan who watches every play should be dismissed. If we are going to do that then why should we even consider GK's point of view if fans' opinions are worthless?

Having said that as I said Murphy is a 3 year starter and provides valuable depth. I agree with GK that he should not be traded for a 4th when the odds say most 4ths don't get to that level.. And as I said in my first post trades exist on messageboards far more often then they actually happen in real life.

 

[deanpet21]

Laconfra gk, really?

 

[deanpet21]

What level dgfan? What level is Murphy at right now? 4th round picks can be backups just like Murphy is going to be.. Murphy is not a three year starter b/c he wont start this year. Plus he lost his starting position last year to smith. I don't under estimate the value of a 4th round pick. You can strike gold like Breeland. Of course this is a hypothetical but if offered a 3rd or 4th round pick you have to consider it in my opinion.

 

[gkekoa]

I find myself in between Dean and GK's position. I agree with Dean's assessment of both Murphy and Long. How their respective lines have performed is kind of a strange argument, there are 4 other players as well as support from backs and tight ends to consider. And I'm also not sure why the opinion of the Raiders fan who watches every play should be dismissed. If we are going to do that then why should we even consider GK's point of view if fans' opinions are worthless?

Having said that as I said Murphy is a 3 year starter and provides valuable depth. I agree with GK that he should not be traded for a 4th when the odds say most 4ths don't get to that level.. And as I said in my first post trades exist on messageboards far more often then they actually happen in real life.

My perspective on Murphy and Long is they just finished year 2. That at has been my perspective the whole time. I have stated numerous times I believe PS will be better than Murphy but everybody glosses over that. My perspective on Long and Jackson is they can't really be compared by us. The Raiders fans opinion of Jackson can be used but has he actually watched Long play enough to have an opinion of Long? The opposite is true of Redskins fans. You have to compare players, not opinions. You also have to look at surroundings. As for the OL statistical comparisons, I there those out there. Obviously, they do not speak on individual performance but OL play is so incredibly nuanced, we don't have the tape or the time to properly evaluate an individual.

Dean is simply trying to justify his draft day disagreements with all scouting personnel in the NFL. That is all he does and he changes argument positions based on his stance. Things like Gabe Jackson got an award going against better competition is silly. When I mention Long was All American which trumps All SEC, crickets. Long had a serious injury and may never fully recover but the fact is he was a better prospect. Being a terrific college player at any level doesn't always translate to an NFL skill set.

I also agree that trades exist far more often on message boards and wanting trades is fine. But when you offer up a trade on a message board, you should be prepared to get counter ideas and answer why intelligently. If somebody brings up a good point counter to yours, you should probably acknowledge it...just like you want to be acknowledged as correct.

 

[gkekoa]

Laconfra gk, really?

Did you miss the part where he spoke to several organizations and got a buzz on Long? And his opinion was not that Long was a second round prospect...his opinion was after talking to these organizations, he felt they thought he was a second round prospect.

I will take an organizations feel over Mayock everyday...even the worst organization.

 

[gkekoa]

What level dgfan? What level is Murphy at right now? 4th round picks can be backups just like Murphy is going to be.. Murphy is not a three year starter b/c he wont start this year. Plus he lost his starting position last year to smith. I don't under estimate the value of a 4th round pick. You can strike gold like Breeland. Of course this is a hypothetical but if offered a 3rd or 4th round pick you have to consider it in my opinion.

you have a better chance of striking unpressurized coal than you do gold in the fourth. I showed that earlier.

Here is another way to look at it: Seattle

2010
3rd---actually a second fourth---Walter Thurmond was a backup in Seattle, never won the job as a starter...Giants and now Eagles where he finally got a starting gig in year 6.
4th- EJ Wilson played 2 games in 2010... Never heard from again

2011
3rd- John Moffitt played two years in Seattle, then a year with Denver and out of the league
4th- KJ Wright consistent four year starter...solid football player
4th- Kris Durham- played three games with Seattle and was cut after year one...played with Detroit and now Oakland as a part time player...played only 4 games in two of those seasons

2012
3rd- Russell Wilson is a great player. No argument.
4th- Robert Turbin played as a backup three years Seattle before playing 7 games total with CLE and DAL last season
4th- Jaye Howard played 2 games with Seattle before being cut and picked up by the Chiefs. It took him until year 4 to make an impact and I want him in FA. Good player...bad pick.

2013
3rd- Jordan Hill is a backup in Seattle...nothing more.
4th- Chris Harper never played a game with Seattle. Finally got to play in a couple games this year for NE in his third year.


I chose these years because this was SM building Seattle into one of the best teams in football. How did he do? He had 10 picks in rounds 3 and 4 during these four years.

HOMERUN- Russell Wilson
Better pick than Murphy has been- 1 (KJ Wright)
Equal to Murphy- 1 (Walter Thurmond) as a backup
Worse than Trent Murphy- 7 players and most aren't really NFL players

So, if we trade Murphy for a 3rd or 4th rounder, the law of averages says 70% of the time it will be a failure...and this is widely considered the best personnel man in football.

 

[Sportster 72]

Laconfra gk, really?

Dude, you have been quoting Walters Football

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

That's a good post GK and backs up my position that the odds are SM won't necessarily find a player who is better than Murphy.

 

[gkekoa]

That's a good post GK and backs up my position that the odds are SM won't necessarily find a player who is better than Murphy.

That is all I have really been saying this whole time...even we were arguing. Thank you BTW. My whole thing is...we don't know if Murphy will continue to get better or if he is done but it makes no sense to replace him with somebody who will typically be worse while he is still young and cheap.

 

[deanpet21]

I use walterfootball, CBS, Kiper, and mcshay for analyst. Plus my own thoughts. 3rd and 4th round picks are important b/c many 1st and 2nd round picks are busts or are just overhyped. Laconforna is a bum. He knows nothing about scouting and reports lies. At the time the SEC was the best conference in football so competition matters.

I already proved that Long and Murphy are nothing but backup players. A lot of fans on this board would say that Long was a bad pick. If offered a 3rd or 4th round pick for a 4th OLB is a done deal in my book. Truth is that no team will offer anything for Murphy b/c he doesn't have any value.

You guys can defend Long and Murphy all you want. But in my book those two guys have already failed this organization. You guys argue that they are too young but there are going to be backups for us in the future so really they will be gone when their contract ends. The only way these two would get a shot is if a major injury happens.

Our 2014 draft was saved by the Moses and Breeland picks. Not by the Murphy and Long picks.

 

[skinsdad62]

I use walterfootball, CBS, Kiper, and mcshay for analyst. Plus my own thoughts. 3rd and 4th round picks are important b/c many 1st and 2nd round picks are busts or are just overhyped. Laconforna is a bum. He knows nothing about scouting and reports lies. At the time the SEC was the best conference in football so competition matters.

I already proved that Long and Murphy are nothing but backup players. A lot of fans on this board would say that Long was a bad pick. If offered a 3rd or 4th round pick for a 4th OLB is a done deal in my book. Truth is that no team will offer anything for Murphy b/c he doesn't have any value.

You guys can defend Long and Murphy all you want. But in my book those two guys have already failed this organization. You guys argue that they are too young but there are going to be backups for us in the future so really they will be gone when their contract ends. The only way these two would get a shot is if a major injury happens.

Our 2014 draft was saved by the Moses and Breeland picks. Not by the Murphy and Long picks.

how have you proven anything ? if gallette doesnt sign or come all the way back guess what ? we are at murphy again . if long moves to center then what ? and what is long stays the starter as he could very well be ?

when given the choice long or kujo the staff chose long

i would only trade murphy for a proven player not a damn draft pick in a weak draft

 

[deanpet21]

I meant if we did sign Galette. Even if he doesnt sign Murphy is still a backup. I mentioned already that if Long moved to center its the only way he will get playing time. We will see if the "staff" would choose Long over Kujo in training camp. Besides Ribeye, Long was our worst lineman this year so I cant see how Long would be a starter next year.

 

[gkekoa]

I use walterfootball, CBS, Kiper, and mcshay for analyst. Plus my own thoughts. 3rd and 4th round picks are important b/c many 1st and 2nd round picks are busts or are just overhyped. Laconforna is a bum. He knows nothing about scouting and reports lies. At the time the SEC was the best conference in football so competition matters.

I already proved that Long and Murphy are nothing but backup players. A lot of fans on this board would say that Long was a bad pick. If offered a 3rd or 4th round pick for a 4th OLB is a done deal in my book. Truth is that no team will offer anything for Murphy b/c he doesn't have any value.

You guys can defend Long and Murphy all you want. But in my book those two guys have already failed this organization. You guys argue that they are too young but there are going to be backups for us in the future so really they will be gone when their contract ends. The only way these two would get a shot is if a major injury happens.

Our 2014 draft was saved by the Moses and Breeland picks. Not by the Murphy and Long picks.

We all use those sites but they are not professionals getting paid to analyze players. They get paid for entertainment. Nobody is saying 3rd and 4th rounders are not important. Please look at the actual odds of a 3rd or 4th being successful.

LaConfora's personal analysis is horrid. The article was not about his analysis. It was the analysis of NFL organizations. Are you really claiming that he was lying about what he was hearing from these organizations with regard to Long? Dude...you have issues.

Again, nobody is claiming the SEC wasn't the best even if it is opinion. What I am stating, AP All American trumps All SEC. Before the injury, Long was a better player. It takes time to recover from that injury and he just completed year 2.

You need to look up the word proof before you use any variation of it.

 

[gkekoa]

I meant if we did sign Galette. Even if he doesnt sign Murphy is still a backup. I mentioned already that if Long moved to center its the only way he will get playing time. We will see if the "staff" would choose Long over Kujo in training camp. Besides Ribeye, Long was our worst lineman this year so I cant see how Long would be a starter next year.

So if they move Long to center and he solidifies that position, was drafting him a mistake?

You are the only one talking about the future with regard to Long and Kujo. We are telling you they did chose Long over Kujo...that is a fact.

Do you believe that an OL can be affected by poor play beside them?

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Too soon to be writing off Long to me.

Moses surprised us all this year (except Dean apparently) coming off that Lisfranc and solidifying the spot at RT.

How can one so definitively say that Long doesn't improve next year? It's not like Long failed at LG, he had some solid games at the position. Also, we haven't even seen whether he can hold down the Center with reps. Yet some want him gone already?

It's all about competition at the position. Scot will have a plan for that and I'm confident that the best player to fit, will play.

 

[deanpet21]

That is True cali I just think Long gets beat out in training camp. We will see.

 

[skinsdad62]

Need to Know: The Redskins need more pass rushers

here is why you keep murphy and maybe draft another guy who can rush the passer