POLL What Place By All-Star Game Time

[seattlefan75]

You want me to criticize teams that made moves to make the playoffs with lesser records vs a team that should’ve made the playoffs 3 straight years but sold in 2 of them? Sharing the division with the WS champ is a lazy cop out and weird since your defense is we as fans shouldn’t want a World Series title. I, and a lot fans, aren’t happy with them because they have made the playoffs once in Jerry’s tenure, not the World Series. You can’t have it both ways dude. I’m not asking for the bar to be a World Series contender every year. I’m asking for them to be on par with the Rays. Heck I’d like them to be the Athletics but actually try to win the World Series instead of trying not to.

Yeah, they’ve had the Astros, but you are leaving out they have had the worst or second worst team in baseball in their division as well. Again we aren’t arguing they haven’t won a World Series, we are arguing they have failed for 90% of his tenure. Saying you can’t criticize the team because they’re in first place in another disagreement we have besides what success is. Are you trying to say Athletic fans have nothing to complain about even though they are ten times the organization the Mariners have been under Jerry’s tenure?

You want us to be like the athletics? You would trade what we have been doing the last few years for 2 seasons (18/19) of winning 97 games and getting bounced in the playoffs? Also comparing to the Rays well yeah sure I would love for JD to put together a 100w team on a 100mil payroll. The Rays never spend money, they analytics to win games is on another level. If that is your expectation for whoever controls the franchise that is your right as a fan. Right now the Mariners are on pace to make the playoffs and I am giving credit to JD for that.

 

[WizardHawk]

There is no such thing as luck especially in baseball. 162 games were played and the result is what the result is we made the playoffs. you tried to bring up his time with the angels well to that I say this. Look at what the Angles record was from 2011-2015 during his time there and look at the Angels record since resigned. That is EXACTLY what I don't want to have happen with the Mariners if he was fired. Also what is the expectation here Wazzu says its WS or bust, you are saying you want them to consistently make the playoffs? Well we are in a good position right now with Houston falling and Texas struggling so will you give Jerry credit if they make the playoffs this season?

So, you would give credit to Jerry if they make the playoffs purely because all of the other teams in the division have down years at the same time?

Uh, no.

As for the angels, you also care more about possibly failing to get to the part season by 12 games instead of missing it by 1 or 2?

Uh, no.

I'd rather at least attempt to find a GM and skip that can get to the post season than just hold onto yearly mediocrity out of fear.

Again, I've followed this team since day 1. How fucking patient do you expect people to be after more than 4 decades of coming up short? I don't have another 40 years left to wait.

 

[seattlefan75]

So, you would give credit to Jerry if they make the playoffs purely because all of the other teams in the division have down years at the same time?

Uh, no.

As for the angels, you also care more about possibly failing to get to the part season by 12 games instead of missing it by 1 or 2?

Uh, no.

I'd rather at least attempt to find a GM and skip that can get to the post season than just hold onto yearly mediocrity out of fear.

Again, I've followed this team since day 1. How fucking patient do you expect people to be after more than 4 decades of coming up short? I don't have another 40 years left to wait.

So I can only give credit to Jerry making the playoffs only if the Astros, Rangers and A's all have great teams that season? So if you were an Astros fan those half those division titles, playoff runs, and WS don't count because that year the Mariners, Angels, and A's were soft?

Its simple and also proven last year. Just because you win 100 games doesn't mean you are going to the WS. First make the playoffs and everyone's stats are 0 and its almost a roulette table in who wins the Pennant and its first to 4 wins in the WS stats and wins are irrelevant at that point.

Also if you want to have a Merry go round of GMs and throwing them out because they haven't won the WS and that is your standard as a fan you are only destroying yourself.

 

[WizardHawk]

So I can only give credit to Jerry making the playoffs only if the Astros, Rangers and A's all have great teams that season? So if you were an Astros fan those half those division titles, playoff runs, and WS don't count because that year the Mariners, Angels, and A's were soft?

Its simple and also proven last year. Just because you win 100 games doesn't mean you are going to the WS. First make the playoffs and everyone's stats are 0 and its almost a roulette table in who wins the Pennant and its first to 4 wins in the WS stats and wins are irrelevant at that point.

Also if you want to have a Merry go round of GMs and throwing them out because they haven't won the WS and that is your standard as a fan you are only destroying yourself.

We get it. You drink the kool-aid and entirely but into everything they stand for. The 54% philosophy is reasonable to you.

Most of us do not will not, and cannot be talked into it.

You keep taking examples to an extreme and then trying to use it to justify holding into mediocrity out of fear.

We saw what finding the right manager can do. 4 postseason appearances in 7 years. Scott Servais will never bring you that. Lou never got them to the WS, but he had them on a track with a MUCH more likely chance to get there than what we have now.

Last year we can all bring up no less than a half dozen games they had no business losing but did and they were 100% on Servais. Change any of those and they again limp into the post season.

Now I've said this many times, but I blame ownership for where they are more than anyone else.

They won't fire Jerry because he's doing exactly what they are asking him to do. Spend as little as possible to keep the team just upright enough to maintain their profit margins. The business model is the problem. It means more than winning.

 

[NWinAZ]

We get it. You drink the kool-aid and entirely but into everything they stand for. The 54% philosophy is reasonable to you.

Most of us do not will not, and cannot be talked into it.

You keep taking examples to an extreme and then trying to use it to justify holding into mediocrity out of fear.

We saw what finding the right manager can do. 4 postseason appearances in 7 years. Scott Servais will never bring you that. Lou never got them to the WS, but he had them on a track with a MUCH more likely chance to get there than what we have now.

Last year we can all bring up no less than a half dozen games they had no business losing but did and they were 100% on Servais. Change any of those and they again limp into the post season.

Now I've said this many times, but I blame ownership for where they are more than anyone else.

They won't fire Jerry because he's doing exactly what they are asking him to do. Spend as little as possible to keep the team just upright enough to maintain their profit margins. The business model is the problem. It means more than winning.

Ditto

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

So I can only give credit to Jerry making the playoffs only if the Astros, Rangers and A's all have great teams that season? So if you were an Astros fan those half those division titles, playoff runs, and WS don't count because that year the Mariners, Angels, and A's were soft?

Its simple and also proven last year. Just because you win 100 games doesn't mean you are going to the WS. First make the playoffs and everyone's stats are 0 and its almost a roulette table in who wins the Pennant and its first to 4 wins in the WS stats and wins are irrelevant at that point.

Also if you want to have a Merry go round of GMs and throwing them out because they haven't won the WS and that is your standard as a fan you are only destroying yourself.

Astros and Mariners are apples and oranges. Mariners need the ALW to stub their toes cause we have a poor hitting team. Every night us fans have to hope starters/pen only give up 2 runs to have any chance to win. Astros had the pitching and the hitting so it wouldn't have mattered if the rest of the ALW struggled or not. Jerry and company gets credit for building up a dominate rotation/pen but completely fails at putting together a competent group of hitters that can compete against the best of the MLB.

 

[seattlefan75]

Astros and Mariners are apples and oranges. Mariners need the ALW to stub their toes cause we have a poor hitting team. Every night us fans have to hope starters/pen only give up 2 runs to have any chance to win. Astros had the pitching and the hitting so it wouldn't have mattered if the rest of the ALW struggled or not. Jerry and company gets credit for building up a dominate rotation/pen but completely fails at putting together a competent group of hitters that can compete against the best of the MLB.

I still think the makeup of the lineup would have been a lot different if Kyle Lewis and Evan White would have never had their career ending injuries. Now management is trying to find ways to close gaps in the lineup via free agency. Either way I still hold the opinion it does not matter how you win games as long as you win. The game we won 5-0 last night would not have mattered if it was 10-0.

 

[seattlefan75]

Talking about the Mariners again they will be going into a stretch of away games starting with a tough series against the Guardians whom are 21-8 at home this season. For the next month we will be facing quality teams trying to make the playoffs.

I have and will continue to have faith in my Mariners.

 

[wazzu31]

You want us to be like the athletics? You would trade what we have been doing the last few years for 2 seasons (18/19) of winning 97 games and getting bounced in the playoffs? Also comparing to the Rays well yeah sure I would love for JD to put together a 100w team on a 100mil payroll. The Rays never spend money, they analytics to win games is on another level. If that is your expectation for whoever controls the franchise that is your right as a fan. Right now the Mariners are on pace to make the playoffs and I am giving credit to JD for that.

No, I don’t want them to be the Athletics or Rays cause neither team goes the extra mile to win a title. But you know what, the Athletics have been a better franchise since Jerry has taken over. You act as though winning 97 games and getting bounced from the playoffs from not making the playoffs. You can/we can give props to Jerry but you can’t pretend the lead in the west is cause of Jerry as opposed to the other teams being bad.

 

[wazzu31]

I still think the makeup of the lineup would have been a lot different if Kyle Lewis and Evan White would have never had their career ending injuries. Now management is trying to find ways to close gaps in the lineup via free agency. Either way I still hold the opinion it does not matter how you win games as long as you win. The game we won 5-0 last night would not have mattered if it was 10-0.

That was my talking point

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I still think the makeup of the lineup would have been a lot different if Kyle Lewis and Evan White would have never had their career ending injuries. Now management is trying to find ways to close gaps in the lineup via free agency. Either way I still hold the opinion it does not matter how you win games as long as you win. The game we won 5-0 last night would not have mattered if it was 10-0.

I fully agree Lewis and White injuries were club killers but buying low bargain basement players isn't the answer when the FO already knows the team struggles to hit and produce runs. Winning by 5 or 10 is fine if it is consistent and no I'm not saying they have to score 10 every game in regular season but playoffs are totally different scoring 1 or 2 won't win many if any series cause we're facing the teams top 3 pitchers.

 

[WizardHawk]

I have and will continue to have faith in my Mariners.

Most of us had that in the past. Years and decades of the same results have eroded it.

They won't add the bats they need and they won't make the playoffs. Again.

 

[NWinAZ]

I am feeling pretty good about my 2nd place vote though 3rd place isn't out of the question.

 

[seattlefan75]

Most of us had that in the past. Years and decades of the same results have eroded it.

They won't add the bats they need and they won't make the playoffs. Again.

Still a believer that we will be in 1st place by the all star break and will be in the playoffs come October

 

[WizardHawk]

Still a believer that we will be in 1st place by the all star break and will be in the playoffs come October

You are free to feel how you want. So are we.

You routinely come up here after a string of wins to gloat.

They could go back up 10 games and I'd still feel like they are on borrowed time. Their bad offense just can't sustain winning all year in my opinion.

If they shock us and go aggressively pickup bats before the deadline then I'd like their chances a lot more.

I don't expect them to because they never do. So I don't see a viable path to the post season as they are built today.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Still a believer that we will be in 1st place by the all star break and will be in the playoffs come October

Ok...serious question....What have you seen to be a believer in this team?

 

[seattlefan75]

You are free to feel how you want. So are we.

You routinely come up here after a string of wins to gloat.

They could go back up 10 games and I'd still feel like they are on borrowed time. Their bad offense just can't sustain winning all year in my opinion.

If they shock us and go aggressively pickup bats before the deadline then I'd like their chances a lot more.

I don't expect them to because they never do. So I don't see a viable path to the post season as they are built today.

You may call it gloating I am just pointing out that so far all the nay sayers have been wrong but rather than just saying "ok maybe we have a chance at this" there is this doubling down that the team is bad and management has no idea what they are doing. I also feel whether or not anybody admits it but there is a feeling of wanting the team to crash so that everybody and come out and feel validated in all the hate they give this team.

Regardless I am here to support my team.

 

[seattlefan75]

Ok...serious question....What have you seen to be a believer in this team?

Our pitching? I think having a 5 man rotation that gives us a shot in every game is better than trying to build a 1-9 lineup and trying to score a bunch of points every game. The days of batters hitting .300+, 100RBIs+, 40-50 homers is over. This is a game of pitching, playing defense, and managing the base paths.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Our pitching? I think having a 5 man rotation that gives us a shot in every game is better than trying to build a 1-9 lineup and trying to score a bunch of points every game. The days of batters hitting .300+, 100RBIs+, 40-50 homers is over. This is a game of pitching, playing defense, and managing the base paths.

Except we don't have a solid 5 man rotation that gives us a shot every game to combat our hideous hitting. Castillo is not an automatic W and quite frankly has been meh, Miller has been up and down, Woo on the IL again, Hancock in the minors and hasn't proven he can stay in the majors. Kirby and Gilbert are our 2 solid pitchers out of 5 or 6 starters. Not very good for a so call contender.

To your second point the Yankees will probably have 2 players over 40 HRs with 100+ RBIs, Phillies will probably have 2 guys with 40 HRs with possible 3 guys 100+ RBIs, Dodgers will have Ohtani over 40 with 100+RBIs and Betts got hurt so probably won't reach those numbers, Astros have guys that can hit those numbers. The point is as you can see you don't need .300 hitters but hitters that can hit in clutch or actually make solid contact. Only guy on our team that can do that is Cal and JRod from time to time.

Look at out lineup and compare our guys to the Yankees lineup, Dodgers, Phillies, Baltimore's lineup and it'll give you a clear picture why they are real contenders.

 

[WizardHawk]

You may call it gloating I am just pointing out that so far all the nay sayers have been wrong but rather than just saying "ok maybe we have a chance at this" there is this doubling down that the team is bad and management has no idea what they are doing. I also feel whether or not anybody admits it but there is a feeling of wanting the team to crash so that everybody and come out and feel validated in all the hate they give this team.

Regardless I am here to support my team.

Two things can be true at the same time: The team can be in first place and they can look like a team that doesn't look like a playoff team.

They have the worst offense in all of baseball. There is no amount of spin that can change that. In addition, they are on pace to obliterate their own strikeout record.

There aren't a lot of positives to hold onto that leads anyone to ignore those really big problems.

No one wants them to fail. That's just a bad take. You don't understand 48 years of futility and coming up short every one of them.