POLL What Place By All-Star Game Time

[NWinAZ]

Urquidy and Javier both scheduled for TJ surgery. I'll risk the jinx and go ahead and say it. The Astros are cooked. Now it is just us and Texas. Unless the deep pocket Astro owners go out and get a Mitch Keller and/or Zac Gallen or someone similar from a team in a similar situation (and the Astros have been known to do that time and time again).

 

[seattlefan75]

That’s a two part question. A. He should never have gotten the President of baseball ops job. B. I would have fired him last offseason. At the current moment no, it is bad for the organization to fire the head of baseball mid season.

You would have fired him last offseason?? you know firing a GM whom has a winning record in total and more winning seasons during his time with the organization would make it infinitely harder to hire a quality replacement. Executives around the league would talk about that. It's hard enough as it is to bring quality management and players to the organization and firing people prematurely would make our reputation worse.

 

[WizardHawk]

You would have fired him last offseason?? you know firing a GM whom has a winning record in total and more winning seasons during his time with the organization would make it infinitely harder to hire a quality replacement. Executives around the league would talk about that. It's hard enough as it is to bring quality management and players to the organization and firing people prematurely would make our reputation worse.

Ludicrous. The goal of every team should be the WS, not finishing above .500.

If that is the goal, then not reaching it ever, not ever getting close, and not looking like you even have a plan to get there, should be grounds enough.

Having a plan of shooting for .540 and hoping for the best hasn't paid off.

Dip rebuilt the farm but he simply can't build a MLB team. He's had what? 2 playoff teams ever out of all of his career? And neither made a deep run.

I would have had no problem with replacing him with anyone that doesn't shoot for only 54%.

If firing that scared away candidates then they aren't the ones you wanted anyway. You want the executives that agree it's WC or bust.

 

[PolarVortex]

You would have fired him last offseason?? you know firing a GM whom has a winning record in total and more winning seasons during his time with the organization would make it infinitely harder to hire a quality replacement. Executives around the league would talk about that. It's hard enough as it is to bring quality management and players to the organization and firing people prematurely would make our reputation worse.

How long has Dipoto been here? Nine years? There would be nothing premature about his firing.

 

[WizardHawk]

It's been so long since Lou showed seattle what expectations should be that there is a whole generation of fans that are content with the status quo. T-Mobile is a quaint place to go have a few drinks and eat some decent food. Maybe you win, maybe not, but that's OK. Finish above .500 and hope for a wild card. That's good enough.

Those of us who lived through that brief span can't go back to that passive view.

 

[PolarVortex]

It's been so long since Lou showed seattle what expectations should be that there is a whole generation of fans that are content with the status quo. T-Mobile is a quaint place to go have a few drinks and eat some decent food. Maybe you win, maybe not, but that's OK. Finish above .500 and hope for a wild card. That's good enough.

Those of us who lived through that brief span can't go back to that passive view.

1995-2003. Three HOFers, and another who would be if he hadn't used roids later in his career, and a manager who is on the shortlist for the 2024 HOF inductees. An all-star catcher, two all-stars in right field, two all stars in center field, all-star first baseman, all-star second baseman, 2-time 20-game winner with an all-world changeup, legendary play-by-play announcer.

It's been 21 years, but some of us haven't forgotten.

 

[WizardHawk]

1995-2003. Three HOFers, and another who would be if he hadn't used roids later in his career, and a manager who is on the shortlist for the 2024 HOF inductees. An all-star catcher, two all-stars in right field, two all stars in center field, all-star first baseman, all-star second baseman, 2-time 20-game winner with an all-world changeup, legendary play-by-play announcer.

It's been 21 years, but some of us haven't forgotten.

More impressively, Lou took a team that finished under .500 the year before he took over to being a winning team his first season. A team that had only ever had 1 season finishing above .500 in its history.

We didn't get excuses why it would take 6+ years before we should expect to have the big club winning games.

He took them to their first playoffs in his 3rd season and had them in 4 post seasons in a 7 year span.

Now we are to believe that it takes many many years to get a playoff worthy team. Can't count the first 5 or 6 years! It's not fair!

It's what a significant part of our mostly younger fans have been forced to believe.

Still, as much as I can put blame on Dip or Servais, it's the ownership mostly at fault.

Regardless of who you blame either way it's still not acceptable to settle for 54% as the goal. It's just not.

 

[NWinAZ]

I want my 1995 back.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[wazzu31]

You would have fired him last offseason?? you know firing a GM whom has a winning record in total and more winning seasons during his time with the organization would make it infinitely harder to hire a quality replacement. Executives around the league would talk about that. It's hard enough as it is to bring quality management and players to the organization and firing people prematurely would make our reputation worse.

100%. Not only for making the Mariners the joke of the baseball world. Premature? You already conceded the we can judge his performance from 2017 to present, he has made the playoffs once. Winning seasons is meaningless. 88 wins isn’t any different than 78 if you don’t make the playoffs.

So again, you and I have vastly different definitions of success and what we want as a fan.

 

[wazzu31]

If firing that scared away candidates then they aren't the ones you wanted anyway. You want the executives that agree it's WC or bust.

It is also silly to say it would scare everyone off. They have always gotten the bottom of barrel GM’s outside of Pat Gillick and it’s not like he was a highly sought after GM. Dipoto had just been fired with an open checkbook.

Along with there is nothing wrong with getting a young and hungry GM to run the show. I just don’t get the loyalty to Jerry as though he done anything more than getting one home playoff game. The best arguments for him are essentially he should be director of a player development or the scouting department.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

37 games left to the All-Star break. 23 are against teams currently with a losing record and 14 against teams with a winning record.
16 games are at home where we enjoy a 65.6% winning percentage. 10 games are against teams with a losing record, 6 with a winning record
21 games are on the road where our winning percentage is a less desirable but tolerable 44.8%. 13 games are against teams with a losing record, 8 with a winning record

So, does anyone want to change their prediction?

I'll change it once we hit then break. They should be in first or second but would anybody be surprised if they managed to fuck up and end in third by the break?

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

It is also silly to say it would scare everyone off. They have always gotten the bottom of barrel GM’s outside of Pat Gillick and it’s not like he was a highly sought after GM. Dipoto had just been fired with an open checkbook.

Along with there is nothing wrong with getting a young and hungry GM to run the show. I just don’t get the loyalty to Jerry as though he done anything more than getting one home playoff game. The best arguments for him are essentially he should be director of a player development or the scouting department.

Whether it works or not, I was all about getting an assistant GM ready and waiting from a winning ball club to bring his philosophy and pedigree over to the Mariners. Still waiting.

 

[wazzu31]

Whether it works or not, I was all about getting an assistant GM ready and waiting from a winning ball club to bring his philosophy and pedigree over to the Mariners. Still waiting.

Supposedly the Mariners have a GM that no one in baseball considers a GM. The Mariners are the baseball version of the Cougs but won’t admit it. Just admit it is a stepping stone job and enjoy the ride. Go find people who want to work for the Yankees or Dodgers. You should want guys that other teams want to poach.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Supposedly the Mariners have a GM that no one in baseball considers a GM. The Mariners are the baseball version of the Cougs but won’t admit it. Just admit it is a stepping stone job and enjoy the ride. Go find people who want to work for the Yankees or Dodgers. You should want guys that other teams want to poach.

Completely agree! Their FO's having winning pedigrees and yes not all trades/signings are hits but I'll take an eager GM from those 2 teams/Braves/Phillies etc that knows what it takes to put a consistent winning team on the field. Since we're going the cheap route, I'd take Tampa's assistant GM and their scouts in a heart beat.

 

[seattlefan75]

Ludicrous. The goal of every team should be the WS, not finishing above .500.

If that is the goal, then not reaching it ever, not ever getting close, and not looking like you even have a plan to get there, should be grounds enough.

Having a plan of shooting for .540 and hoping for the best hasn't paid off.

Dip rebuilt the farm but he simply can't build a MLB team. He's had what? 2 playoff teams ever out of all of his career? And neither made a deep run.

I would have had no problem with replacing him with anyone that doesn't shoot for only 54%.

If firing that scared away candidates then they aren't the ones you wanted anyway. You want the executives that agree it's WC or bust.

The New York Yankees haven't won a world series in like 15 years so they should start firing people around the organization? Of course the end goal is to win the world series but by firing people you run the risk of taking 7 steps backwards. We will then hire a new GM with a new vision and we don't even know if it will work. All we can do is make the playoffs and it's a roulette table at that point. last year 4 teams with roughly 100 win records all got bounced and two wild card teams represented each conference in the world series. We were only 2 games lesser than the Rangers that won it.

 

[seattlefan75]

100%. Not only for making the Mariners the joke of the baseball world. Premature? You already conceded the we can judge his performance from 2017 to present, he has made the playoffs once. Winning seasons is meaningless. 88 wins isn’t any different than 78 if you don’t make the playoffs.

So again, you and I have vastly different definitions of success and what we want as a fan.

So you would shame the mariners for not making the playoffs at 88 wins but give credit to the Diamondbacks, Twins, and Marlins for making the playoffs with lesser win rates? We also share the division with the Houston Astros in since 2017 they went to the world series 4x winning 2 of them. This is the uphill battle we face in turning our franchise around trying to make the playoffs and now that it seems like they are declining we are running in 1st place this season.

but as we both know we do have different versions of what we want as fans.

 

[WizardHawk]

The New York Yankees haven't won a world series in like 15 years so they should start firing people around the organization? Of course the end goal is to win the world series but by firing people you run the risk of taking 7 steps backwards. We will then hire a new GM with a new vision and we don't even know if it will work. All we can do is make the playoffs and it's a roulette table at that point. last year 4 teams with roughly 100 win records all got bounced and two wild card teams represented each conference in the world series. We were only 2 games lesser than the Rangers that won it.

The Ms have made the playoffs once in Jerry's tenure and they were lucky to make it that one time.

The angels only managed one during his time there.

That's a lot of years of mediocre baseball.

In this case I didn't bring up his dismissal. I responded to your excuse as to why he shouldn't have been when you spoke to someone else and I pointed out your reasoning was just plain bad because it is.

When you look at the players he keeps bringing in year after year and the lack of results we see the continuation of that long trend he has of having his teams limp into a wildcard slot once a decade.

He can build a farm system, but he can't take the big club to that next level.

You tried to bring up the Yankees? They have missed the post season twice in the last decade. They won their division twice in that span. No one would be shocked if they did go in a different direction if they don't look like they are making the right moves to get back to the WS.

Seriously, we are talking about what the team did last year. You look at the players Jerry brought in before last season. You look at who they picked up before this season.

They got rid of players that are doing well somewhere else to attempt to better this teams strikeout rate. It is now worse this year.

He holds onto a manager that is plain terrible. Servais is 100% on him.

That tandem has already reached their ceiling.

This is all they can do.

 

[wazzu31]

So you would shame the mariners for not making the playoffs at 88 wins but give credit to the Diamondbacks, Twins, and Marlins for making the playoffs with lesser win rates? We also share the division with the Houston Astros in since 2017 they went to the world series 4x winning 2 of them. This is the uphill battle we face in turning our franchise around trying to make the playoffs and now that it seems like they are declining we are running in 1st place this season.

but as we both know we do have different versions of what we want as fans.

You want me to criticize teams that made moves to make the playoffs with lesser records vs a team that should’ve made the playoffs 3 straight years but sold in 2 of them? Sharing the division with the WS champ is a lazy cop out and weird since your defense is we as fans shouldn’t want a World Series title. I, and a lot fans, aren’t happy with them because they have made the playoffs once in Jerry’s tenure, not the World Series. You can’t have it both ways dude. I’m not asking for the bar to be a World Series contender every year. I’m asking for them to be on par with the Rays. Heck I’d like them to be the Athletics but actually try to win the World Series instead of trying not to.

Yeah, they’ve had the Astros, but you are leaving out they have had the worst or second worst team in baseball in their division as well. Again we aren’t arguing they haven’t won a World Series, we are arguing they have failed for 90% of his tenure. Saying you can’t criticize the team because they’re in first place in another disagreement we have besides what success is. Are you trying to say Athletic fans have nothing to complain about even though they are ten times the organization the Mariners have been under Jerry’s tenure?

 

[seattlefan75]

The Ms have made the playoffs once in Jerry's tenure and they were lucky to make it that one time.

The angels only managed one during his time there.

That's a lot of years of mediocre baseball.

In this case I didn't bring up his dismissal. I responded to your excuse as to why he shouldn't have been when you spoke to someone else and I pointed out your reasoning was just plain bad because it is.

When you look at the players he keeps bringing in year after year and the lack of results we see the continuation of that long trend he has of having his teams limp into a wildcard slot once a decade.

He can build a farm system, but he can't take the big club to that next level.

You tried to bring up the Yankees? They have missed the post season twice in the last decade. They won their division twice in that span. No one would be shocked if they did go in a different direction if they don't look like they are making the right moves to get back to the WS.

Seriously, we are talking about what the team did last year. You look at the players Jerry brought in before last season. You look at who they picked up before this season.

They got rid of players that are doing well somewhere else to attempt to better this teams strikeout rate. It is now worse this year.

He holds onto a manager that is plain terrible. Servais is 100% on him.

That tandem has already reached their ceiling.

This is all they can do.

There is no such thing as luck especially in baseball. 162 games were played and the result is what the result is we made the playoffs. you tried to bring up his time with the angels well to that I say this. Look at what the Angles record was from 2011-2015 during his time there and look at the Angels record since resigned. That is EXACTLY what I don't want to have happen with the Mariners if he was fired. Also what is the expectation here Wazzu says its WS or bust, you are saying you want them to consistently make the playoffs? Well we are in a good position right now with Houston falling and Texas struggling so will you give Jerry credit if they make the playoffs this season?