What kind of team are we ,really ?

[Rowdy]

Carry it how? As in 45 - 50 passes for the game?

Maybe so. I don't see our run game being a factor. Hope I'm wrong though

 

[Rowdy]

Not saying we should give up on the run game either

 

[Sportster 72]

So back to the topic. We are a team Vegas loves. Because any given week you have no idea what you will get, thus lines tend to be loose and those inclined to drop coin will do so with reckless abandon.

And as I mentioned in another thread.. I like reckless abandon.... well except where my money is concerned. I never bet money on our team. Because.. we are a team that is still unpredictable as all fuck out. And that is what type of team we are.


Now fess up you love the way I tied that all together.

LMAO!! I do like the way you and Sty switched gears without changing lanes.

 

[gkekoa]

Carry it how? As in 45 - 50 passes for the game?

I think he means we will have to score more.

He very well could have to throw it 45 times though because we will be missing Norman, Bree, and Allen...who knows who else from defense.

 

[Breed]

I think he means we will have to score more.

He very well could have to throw it 45 times though because we will be missing Norman, Bree, and Allen...who knows who else from defense.

Unless we're playing catch up. I think we have to run enough to at least keep the defense honest. Though if Philly is as bad against the pass as Philly or Iggs said. Fuck it. KC's been ballin 9000 this year and sooner or later a game or games are gonna come that KC will have win with his arm.

Besides, our defense causes me greater concern than our offense.

 

[gkekoa]

Unless we're playing catch up. I think we have to run enough to at least keep the defense honest. Though if Philly is as bad against the pass as Philly or Iggs said. Fuck it. KC's been ballin 9000 this year and sooner or later a game or games are gonna come that KC will have win with his arm.

Besides, our defense causes me greater concern than our offense.

I agree but I expect us to play catch up in this one.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

We are a mediocre team in a mediocre league and that's a good thing. I don't know if any of you remember this but there has been a league wide effort to create "Parity" for some time now. Rule changes, video replay, additional rule changes for protection against head injuries, skirting QB's, compensation relating to Free agency, trading valuations, compensatory picks et. al have all played a role in achieving this parity. The days of dominating defenses are long gone, replaced by defenses that rely more upon offensive mistakes than those that they themselves create.

We are fortunate to have a mediocre team, as I previously stated that's a good thing in today's NFL, given that alternative place from which this team worked to leave behind. SB level? who knows? there are a lot of things that changes the fortunes of a team in any given season. Unfortunately, that too is a two way street. Today's mediocre team will win a SB with the proper breaks, with the wrong ones that same team finishes with a very high draft pick in tow. The good thing........at least they have a chance.......Parity!!

Outsider POV.

I think you're spot on with the status the league and I see several other posters see this as well.

WAS?...By process of elimination, the 'Skins are right there. DAL looking as if they will be week to week with their RB situation and DEF not being statistically as good this yr...they look like a 9 win team at best right now. NYG are toasted. That leaves WAS and PHI to duke it out unless DAL can find some consistency.

Beyond that...this is a crap shoot playoff season if I've ever seen one. It's wide open in both conferences.

 

[Stymietee]

Outsider POV.

I think you're spot on with the status the league and I see several other posters see this as well.

WAS?...By process of elimination, the 'Skins are right there. DAL looking as if they will be week to week with their RB situation and DEF not being statistically as good this yr...they look like a 9 win team at best right now. NYG are toasted. That leaves WAS and PHI to duke it out unless DAL can find some consistency.

Beyond that...this is a crap shoot playoff season if I've ever seen one. It's wide open in both conferences.

Agreed, dynasties are good, but with limitations and those limitations must include a creditable opportunity to win even against said dynasty. When I first learned that the league was dead set on creating parity I realized that there were two main ways to achieve that......1. By making every team stronger, or 2. Making every team weaker. Now I'm not saying that games are fixed per se, however, it's no accident that almost every defensive technique and strategy has been changed into a penalty or outright banned by the NFL. Moves like that can only mean one thing in this league, and that is there will be no more "Steel Curtains".....85 Bears, or any of the more prominent championship defensive teams of times past. Clearly, the league decided to weaken its product, at least by limiting one side of the ball.

Today the focus is on offense, in the NFCE right now the Eagles and Washington are most consistent on that side of the ball....Right Now. Dallas has the means but like DC there are real questions at RB. Although I still would not discount how much of a difference maker the Giants will be in terms of being a playoff contender, let's not confuse a 1-5 record with their ability to become a major factor with respect to how others fare in the division.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Agreed, dynasties are good, but with limitations and those limitations must include a creditable opportunity to win even against said dynasty. When I first learned that the league was dead set on creating parity I realized that there were two main ways to achieve that......1. By making every team stronger, or 2. Making every team weaker. Now I'm not saying that games are fixed per se, however, it's no accident that almost every defensive technique and strategy has been changed into a penalty or outright banned by the NFL. Moves like that can only mean one thing in this league, and that is there will be no more "Steel Curtains".....85 Bears, or any of the more prominent championship defensive teams of times past. Clearly, the league decided to weaken its product, at least by limiting one side of the ball.

Today the focus is on offense, in the NFCE right now the Eagles and Washington are most consistent on that side of the ball....Right Now. Dallas has the means but like DC there are real questions at RB. Although I still would not discount how much of a difference maker the Giants will be in terms of being a playoff contender, let's not confuse a 1-5 record with their ability to become a major factor with respect to how others fare in the division.

Well stated...I'm not sure if I agree with all of it, but I do think parity has always been a mindset of most of the owners. The hard cap w/ a floor, the draft, free agency, waiver process, these are all set up for the small market teams, and or weaker teams to be able to compete on the same field.

When you say, there will be no more '85 Bears, etc...Didn't DEN recently win a SB with a dominating DEF and pretty mediocre OFC? I think SEA has worked off the same blueprint. It might not look the same as the '85 Bears, or the Steel Curtain, but you can still build a dominating DEF....the cap and FA will make it almost impossible to retain a dominating DEF. SEA tried, but I think they had to make some sacrifices on OL and OFC in general to do it.

Most of the changes in the way the game is played do tend to favor the OFC...I agree with you there. The biggest change imo from NFL from 70s era to early 2000s...the QB play at the college level. High school OFC became more about the duel threat QB and less about the traditional drop back passer...more and more of these type QBs were becoming the 4 and 5 chip recruits so colleges adopted OFC that would best take advantage of the skill set. Realistically the top players in college come out as Jrs now, so schools don't have 2 or 3 years to develop players, they need the player on the field sooner rather than later if they had the game....the quickest way to do that is feed them an OFC they already have some experience running.

So...QBs are far less "ready" for the NFL game now than they were 20-30 yrs ago. As a result, we're seeing a little bit more of the college OFC in the NFL...it can work okay in between the 20s, but we've seen a steady diet of the spread or read option will not work in the NFL.

Opening passing lanes by changing the contact rules, and how you can tackle I think was partly the owners wanting to see more scoring to improve the entertainment value of the sport, and lawyers telling them they must decrease blows to the head because of the CTE, and concussion issues.

The reason WAS is viable imo is because they have an accurate QB, and they have a decent DEF. Same with PHI, getting good QB play from Wentz, and they had a solid DEF. Yeah, in DIV, the Giants can still make themselves heard, but given the health of the OFC, and the performance of the OL, I don't see them going on the road and winning too many games.

 

[Stymietee]

Well stated...I'm not sure if I agree with all of it, but I do think parity has always been a mindset of most of the owners. The hard cap w/ a floor, the draft, free agency, waiver process, these are all set up for the small market teams, and or weaker teams to be able to compete on the same field.

When you say, there will be no more '85 Bears, etc...Didn't DEN recently win a SB with a dominating DEF and pretty mediocre OFC? I think SEA has worked off the same blueprint. It might not look the same as the '85 Bears, or the Steel Curtain, but you can still build a dominating DEF....the cap and FA will make it almost impossible to retain a dominating DEF. SEA tried, but I think they had to make some sacrifices on OL and OFC in general to do it.

Most of the changes in the way the game is played do tend to favor the OFC...I agree with you there. The biggest change imo from NFL from 70s era to early 2000s...the QB play at the college level. High school OFC became more about the duel threat QB and less about the traditional drop back passer...more and more of these type QBs were becoming the 4 and 5 chip recruits so colleges adopted OFC that would best take advantage of the skill set. Realistically the top players in college come out as Jrs now, so schools don't have 2 or 3 years to develop players, they need the player on the field sooner rather than later if they had the game....the quickest way to do that is feed them an OFC they already have some experience running.

So...QBs are far less "ready" for the NFL game now than they were 20-30 yrs ago. As a result, we're seeing a little bit more of the college OFC in the NFL...it can work okay in between the 20s, but we've seen a steady diet of the spread or read option will not work in the NFL.

Opening passing lanes by changing the contact rules, and how you can tackle I think was partly the owners wanting to see more scoring to improve the entertainment value of the sport, and lawyers telling them they must decrease blows to the head because of the CTE, and concussion issues.

The reason WAS is viable imo is because they have an accurate QB, and they have a decent DEF. Same with PHI, getting good QB play from Wentz, and they had a solid DEF. Yeah, in DIV, the Giants can still make themselves heard, but given the health of the OFC, and the performance of the OL, I don't see them going on the road and winning too many games.

Agreed with most of this, however, (and this is really no disagreement) Denver did win with their defense as did Seattle, you were correct there, but let me ask did they really stack up to the previous defenses that we mentioned? I didn't mention everything that you have primarily because the post was already a rather lengthy one. Thanks for a more detailed explanation about changes to the game. That said, beyond all of that do you think that there are sanctioned "fixes" to NFL games in the way that games are officiated?

I'm not asking if there's some arbitrary figure or figures insisting that games be called in favor of one team or the other, and perhaps I won't be as succinct in this explanation but what I'm asking is related to rule changes like what is and is not a catch, or that fumble for a touchback in the Jets/Pats game. Things like that for example.

 

[Sportster 72]

Again I will say that the Steelers defense of the 70s was the best defense I have ever seen. Look at the legitmate HOFers that were on that team. Chicago was one and done. Seattle was very good as was Denver and what about the Baltimore defenses, they could play. Hell they won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

"but let me ask did they really stack up to the previous defenses that we mentioned? That said, beyond all of that do you think that there are sanctioned "fixes" to NFL games in the way that games are officiated?

I'm not asking if there's some arbitrary figure or figures insisting that games be called in favor of one team or the other, and perhaps I won't be as succinct in this explanation but what I'm asking is related to rule changes like what is and is not a catch, or that fumble for a touchback in the Jets/Pats game. Things like that for example.

DEF stack up...while we're at it, we can add the '12 Ravens to the mix. The game has changed, but I think one thing hasn't changed...great DEF, can stop the run and effect the passer consistently. To answer that directly, yes I think they stack up.

Sanctioned Fixes...good question. I think judgement calls tend to favor home teams a lot. Is there a conscious agenda? idk to be honest, maybe. Generally speaking I think the NFL would rather the refs not be involved in the result of the game.

Take the game this Thurs...to the avg non biased viewer...KC got hosed in that game. But, when you watch the other 59 mins of the game or any game...WRs are getting away with that controlled "push off" at the top of the route unless they extend their arms on the push. At the end of the game there were 2 or 3 plays the WR pushed off and it wasn't called...that's one of those plays the refs are just not going to call on the OFC unless it's obvious.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Again I will say that the Steelers defense of the 70s was the best defense I have ever seen. Look at the legitmate HOFers that were on that team. Chicago was one and done. Seattle was very good as was Denver and what about the Baltimore defenses, they could play. Hell they won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer.

I agree, but what made that group so good was they were able to keep all those good players for 2 or 3 contracts....ironic that probably the best of the Steel Curtain DEF, the '76 team, didn't win a SB...they had 8 of the 14 reg season games with 6 or fewer points...5 shutouts, and 2 games they gave up a single FG.

 

[Sportster 72]

I agree, but what made that group so good was they were able to keep all those good players for 2 or 3 contracts....ironic that probably the best of the Steel Curtain DEF, the '76 team, didn't win a SB...they had 8 of the 14 reg season games with 6 or fewer points...5 shutouts, and 2 games they gave up a single FG.

Absolutely the difference in the game then and now was being able to keep a team together. The rules have changed to make the game easier for the offense too. That is one reason it is hard to compare eras. Rules favor the offense so much more now.

The game evolves too. Sophistication of both offense and defense is greater now. Situation substitution is so much more a part of the game now as compared to years ago.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Absolutely the difference in the game then and now was being able to keep a team together. The rules have changed to make the game easier for the offense too. That is one reason it is hard to compare eras. Rules favor the offense so much more now.

The game evolves too. Sophistication of both offense and defense is greater now. Situation substitution is so much more a part of the game now as compared to years ago.

Not to hijack the thread, but I agree with this....I think the biggest change in the game has been how DEF can defend beyond 5 yds...that's why I have great appreciation for WRs in the 70s. Secondly, as was mentioned earlier, the new rules on hitting opened up the middle of the field to more than just the brave few of yesteryear.

I think the sub pkgs have always been there...I remember guys like Terry Metcalf were dangerous 3rd down players in the 70s, and the nickle has been around for years, but like you said, far more situational play today. Now, your nickle and your slot WR are basically starters.

The athletic TE has been there a long time...Guys like Dave Casper, and Russ Francis, and later Kellen Winslow...they are just more athletic and more of them now. TEs are running 4.5s now.

 

[Breed]

I think the biggest change in the game has been how DEF can defend beyond 5 yds.

Allowing OL to legally hold def players even with their arms fully extended while outlawing moves that DL/pass rushers could use. As well how defensive off sides is defined now have had a pretty big impact as well.

 

[skinsdad62]

So what kind of team are we really ?

 

[j_y19]

So what kind of team are we really ?

We are going to find out in a few hours. Unfortunately our defense is just really beat up. But great teams find a way to over come injuries. I'm not sure we are there yet. Eagles win this game and they will be the divisional champs (assuming no catastrophic injuries, like to wentz). We will still be in a strong position to compete for the wildcard. Gosh, I hope I am wrong.

 

[Stymietee]

We are a mediocre team in a mediocre league and that's a good thing. I don't know if any of you remember this but there has been a league wide effort to create "Parity" for some time now. Rule changes, video replay, additional rule changes for protection against head injuries, skirting QB's, compensation relating to Free agency, trading valuations, compensatory picks et. al have all played a role in achieving this parity. The days of dominating defenses are long gone, replaced by defenses that rely more upon offensive mistakes than those that they themselves create.

We are fortunate to have a mediocre team, as I previously stated that's a good thing in today's NFL, given that alternative place from which this team worked to leave behind. SB level? who knows? there are a lot of things that changes the fortunes of a team in any given season. Unfortunately, that too is a two way street. Today's mediocre team will win a SB with the proper breaks, with the wrong ones that same team finishes with a very high draft pick in tow. The good thing........at least they have a chance.......Parity!!

After the Philly game this is what you get with mediocre teams when facing a better opponent. Again that's not a bad thing to be (mediocre) because it keeps you in games against them and gives you a better than average chance against the less than average opponent. It's been said time and again, that this is a week to week league, for us that means coming into games with all of the sustained energy that we can muster in order to win. If we don't....well....you saw the game, once they hit us back a bit harder, our energy level dropped and we had no answer.