What do you do with Ackley and Smoak next season?

[johnfree63]

It's sad but I still don't trust either of them to be a quality MLB player. Smoak had a good 1st half of the season but has since puked all over himself in typical Smoak fashion (.209/.294/.378 w/ his walk rate going down and K rate going up).

Ackley on the other hand sucked for over a year and a half but now since the All-Star break has looked like a #2 overall pick (.311/.374/.449 Walk Rate up, K Rate down).

Has Ackley Fixed himself? Have either Smoak or Ackley earned a job on next years team?

If I were running the team I would release Smoak because he is going to be Arbitration eligible and I think you could probably find a cheaper upgrade (Casey Kotchman, who think is a similar player to Smoak, made nearly 3M in his 1st Arbitration. James Loney on the other hand signed as a FA for 2M) if they don't end up signing a higher priced FA. I would let Ackley compete for the starting spot in either the OF or 2B.

 

[Thisnamewasntaken]

You keep them but I think Smoak just burned his last chance to prove himself. He almost has 20 HR's again too, which is frustrating because if he could just be consistent and produce a good average he could be solid or passable. I would love 30 HR's and at least a .280 average. I'm dreaming though....

 

[Logicallylethal]

Definitely keep Ackley and insert him in the #1 or #2 slot where he could get more ABs. Also I think that fits better for Nick Franklin. I like him batting 6th/7th better than Ackley batting 6th/7th simply because Franklin can produce for more power.

As for Smoak...I'm not giving up on him just yet. I haven't really watched much baseball since football season has started again so I can't comment on Smoak's performance in Sept...but in August I felt like even though his bat avg slipped he was still incredibly patient at the plate and got good swings at the ball. There were many instances where he really squared up on the ball and it was just hit in the direction of a fielder for an out.

It'll be interesting to see how things will shake up this off season especially if we resign Morales. Remember we still have Jesus Montero who will more than likely be a 1st basemen/DH from now on. So if he starts raking and finding his bat in spring training...Smoak is going to have to really step up. I personally prefer Smoak just because as a fielder he's heads and shoulders better than Montero will ever be...and his patience and discipline at the plate is also far superior.

 

[Logicallylethal]

Here's an interesting stat on Smoak this year

Typically...Smoak is a better hitter from the right side but for some weird reason he has hit .190 with a .502 ops from the right side this year whereas from the left side he has hit .264 with a .843 ops (17 hrs in 296 abs...pro rate that out to 520 abs and Smoak has 30 hrs)

Also...Smoak who generally hits slightly better with runners on than none on has been absolutely terrible with runners on (.217) and bases loaded (.000, no hits and 8 ks in 12 abs) and solid with none on (.257) and leading off an inning (.263)

I think some of this has to be mental...how can you be such a patient and disciplined hitter but when the bases are loaded in 12 opportunities you have zero hits and only one rbi

 

[seahawksfan234]

Honestly I don't know what to tell you when it comes to Smoak and Ackley. With Smoak when we traded for him I was excited thinking he was the first baseman of the future.

Then he sucked and I became one of his biggest critics.

Then he started playing really well and I made a thread pointing that out, thinking he may have earned a future roster spot.

Now his batting average is dipping again.

Then with Ackley: Excited after his rookie year, he started sucking, now he is playing well.

Honestly the guys are complete roller coasters. I wouldn't be able to blame the front office for going either way with these guys.

 

[Tacoma_canuck]

I'm not overly concerned about Ackley (yet). I remember posting on ESPN his rookie year that he will hit some bumps in the road. Almost every kid does. Very few break in and light it up without some downslide in the 2nd-3rd year. The few that do are bonafide superstars. Smoak, on the other hand is getting to a point of having to get consistent or else. He had some time in the Rangers system to learn the ropes and plenty of opportunity here. If he doesn't break out right out of the gate next season (provided he isn't traded in the off-season), his window will be closed. My thoughts anyway.

 

[Logicallylethal]

Smoak with the big hr!

 

[cezero]

ackley has been almost mediocre for a couple of months

smoak....just lol

any team interested in actually trying to play .500 ball or (gasp) contend wouldn't be wondering what to do with garbage.

it's come down to seattle fans talking about how the front office might juggle around balls of shit next year. goodie.

 

[hawkfan1073]

Would you be suprised if I told you that Justin Smoak and Mark Trumbo have VERY similar numbers?

Mark Trumbo Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Justin Smoak Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

 

[cezero]

Would you be suprised if I told you that Justin Smoak and Mark Trumbo have VERY similar numbers?

Mark Trumbo Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Justin Smoak Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Yeah, Trumbo has been a real disappointment for the Halos. Their fans wanted him traded badly earlier in the year. Now he's worth less, so they're really mad.

 

[Tacoma_canuck]

I don't really see "very" similar numbers there. A couple of them are somewhat close but across the board, Trumbo has been more productive. Better avg., slg. ops, ops+, runs, hits. It looks better all the way and I don't even like Trumbo and never have. Regardless, the 1b positoin has to show more than Smoak has and his days are numbered.

 

[hawkfan1073]

Regardless, the 1b positoin has to show more than Smoak has and his days are numbered.

Who says? Any facts to back that claim up? I think he is a decent 1B. If you look at his numbers compared to Trumbo's this year the only real area Trumbo has him beat are in doubles, HR's and RBI's while playing 35ish more games. Honestly, what do you expect from Smoak? I think hitting .250(which he isn't far off) with 20-25 HR's and 90-100 RBI's(which I think he is capable of if healthy and hitting well) is reasonable. His walks are up and K's are down and his OBP is one of the best on the team. and on top of it he plays wicked defense at first. I honestly don't know how high of expectations you guys have but I don't think you want to see him go to another team because I could see him putting up big numbers soon. I say give them both another year, it's not like we are going to contend anytime soon and there aren't many guys down at AAA beating a path to 1B.

 

[blstoker]

So, what are the options to replace Smoak through free agency?

Jeff Baker (33) A career reserve player. He's shown some power this season with 11 HRs in 150 Abs for Texas, but for the most part has been nothing more than a guy whose solid off the bench. In this role he earned 3X as much money as Smoak.

Corey Hart (32) Missed all of this season due to injuries, having surgery on both knees in 2013. He's been a solid player in Milwaukee, but earned $10 million this year. I don't know what he's gonna want, but it's gonna be more than the M's usually spend on FAs and no one knows how he'll turn around after his injuries.

Mike Napoli (32) Converted from catcher, which isn't all that unusual. Has shown some power in the past, but he had a good year, and may command higher than his $5 million dollar salary from this season.

Paul Konerko (38) A move to full time DH is more like it, but he's coming off a massively disappointing year for him, Smoak's numbers were better this year. He won't get near the $13.5 million he made this year.

Casey Kitchman (31) Mariner's fans remember the woes Kotchman had playing in Seattle. Even if he had played more than 6 games this year, I don't think many people would be happy to see him come back.

Adam Lind (30) Has $7 million team option, and I think they'll pick it up. If not, he did have 23 HRs with a .497 slug this season.

James Loney (30) has been a good hitter for his career, but hasn't shown much power (career high in HR is 15). He made $2 million this year after a down year in 2012. I think he'll be asking for closer to his 2012 salary which was over 6.

Kendrys Morales (30) It's been rehashed that the team needs to resign him, but he'll continue to be mostly a DH if retained.

Justin Morneau (33) Injuries seem to be catching up to him, as his production has significantly dropped the last couple seasons. A move to full time DH may be in his near future if he wants to stay in the Majors.

Mike Morse (32) He's not been productive since the trade (3-29) so if he hits the market they may be able to get him to come back to Seattle.

Lyle Overbay (37) He's always been below average at first base, and as he gets older I don't see that changing for the better.

Carlos Pena (36) Seems to be losing his power, which was the only thing he ever had going for him.

Mark Reynolds (30) He's shown to have more power than Smoak, but has only 1 more HR this season than the Mariners current firstbaseman. I would be very disappointed if the M's brought him in, he's one of my least favorite players in the MLB, as has been for years.

Kevin Youkilis (35) Just hasn't been able to hit for years now, and the fact he still has a job at $12 million a year. I don't expect him to want that kind of cash.

Smoak is younger than all of these guys, is currently a better offensive option than most of them and cheaper than all of them.

I do understand that this may not be all the options, but here's my source of who's available.

2014 MLB Free Agents: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

 

[dude82]

So, what are the options to replace Smoak through free agency?

Jeff Baker (33) A career reserve player. He's shown some power this season with 11 HRs in 150 Abs for Texas, but for the most part has been nothing more than a guy whose solid off the bench. In this role he earned 3X as much money as Smoak.

Corey Hart (32) Missed all of this season due to injuries, having surgery on both knees in 2013. He's been a solid player in Milwaukee, but earned $10 million this year. I don't know what he's gonna want, but it's gonna be more than the M's usually spend on FAs and no one knows how he'll turn around after his injuries.

Mike Napoli (32) Converted from catcher, which isn't all that unusual. Has shown some power in the past, but he had a good year, and may command higher than his $5 million dollar salary from this season.

Paul Konerko (38) A move to full time DH is more like it, but he's coming off a massively disappointing year for him, Smoak's numbers were better this year. He won't get near the $13.5 million he made this year.

Casey Kitchman (31) Mariner's fans remember the woes Kotchman had playing in Seattle. Even if he had played more than 6 games this year, I don't think many people would be happy to see him come back.

Adam Lind (30) Has $7 million team option, and I think they'll pick it up. If not, he did have 23 HRs with a .497 slug this season.

James Loney (30) has been a good hitter for his career, but hasn't shown much power (career high in HR is 15). He made $2 million this year after a down year in 2012. I think he'll be asking for closer to his 2012 salary which was over 6.

Kendrys Morales (30) It's been rehashed that the team needs to resign him, but he'll continue to be mostly a DH if retained.

Justin Morneau (33) Injuries seem to be catching up to him, as his production has significantly dropped the last couple seasons. A move to full time DH may be in his near future if he wants to stay in the Majors.

Mike Morse (32) He's not been productive since the trade (3-29) so if he hits the market they may be able to get him to come back to Seattle.

Lyle Overbay (37) He's always been below average at first base, and as he gets older I don't see that changing for the better.

Carlos Pena (36) Seems to be losing his power, which was the only thing he ever had going for him.

Mark Reynolds (30) He's shown to have more power than Smoak, but has only 1 more HR this season than the Mariners current firstbaseman. I would be very disappointed if the M's brought him in, he's one of my least favorite players in the MLB, as has been for years.

Kevin Youkilis (35) Just hasn't been able to hit for years now, and the fact he still has a job at $12 million a year. I don't expect him to want that kind of cash.

Smoak is younger than all of these guys, is currently a better offensive option than most of them and cheaper than all of them.

I do understand that this may not be all the options, but here's my source of who's available.

2014 MLB Free Agents: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

That's a pretty comprehensive list and a solid breakdown of what's available. I think a lot of folks have gone into anybody-but-Smoak mode at this point. They're out of patience for him and want somebody else in there. I get it. His career to this point has been frustratingly inconsistent. Every time you think he's turned the corner offensively, he goes back the other direction. He forgot how to hit right-handed this year and that really dragged his overall numbers down, but with Smoak, if it isn't one thing it's another. I'm willing to give him another shot, but I wouldn't expect too many others to be happy about it. I doubt that Montero could do enough to wrestle the spot away from him in one Spring Training (especially if Jesus comes into camp out of shape or playing absolutely dreadful first base), so he's at least going to start the year here barring an off-season trade. We'll see how it goes.

 

[cezero]

Yes, the M's are indeed stuck with garbage at many positions. It's the result of organizational incompetence for nearly a decade.

There is no end in sight. Juggling balls of garbage around is all that's left now.

 

[Tacoma_canuck]

Who says? Any facts to back that claim up? I think he is a decent 1B. If you look at his numbers compared to Trumbo's this year the only real area Trumbo has him beat are in doubles, HR's and RBI's while playing 35ish more games. Honestly, what do you expect from Smoak? I think hitting .250(which he isn't far off) with 20-25 HR's and 90-100 RBI's(which I think he is capable of if healthy and hitting well) is reasonable. His walks are up and K's are down and his OBP is one of the best on the team. and on top of it he plays wicked defense at first. I honestly don't know how high of expectations you guys have but I don't think you want to see him go to another team because I could see him putting up big numbers soon. I say give them both another year, it's not like we are going to contend anytime soon and there aren't many guys down at AAA beating a path to 1B.

Hey, you ask for facts. I pointed out that my response was in that you said the numbers are very similar. They aren't across the board. You say he "could" be such and such "if" healthy and more consistent but this is the problem. Trust me when I say I've defended Smoak a great amount with these same arguments the last 3 years. And no, there really isn't a damn thing out there at 1b. It is the weakest position in all of baseball at this time, imo. I like this kid but he really has to do it now is all I'm saying is he doesn't have much more of a window. You, yourself say one more year. I'm saying by the AS break or he will be going somewhere else regardless of the team going anywhere or not. I don't want a Trumbo with the big HR's and a bunch of K's but I would like some consistency. Just because Smoak has potential shouldn't mean we wait forever for it to come to fruition. That's all I'm saying here.

 

[Baseballnut77]

only 2....................ok 3 i would consider off BL's list are Hart,but for the outfield, Napoli(though i dont think the sox let him go) and lind though off the top of my head i think i remember him being really bad against lefties ( though i could be wrong i didnt research)

 

[Destroydacre]

Who says? Any facts to back that claim up? I think he is a decent 1B. If you look at his numbers compared to Trumbo's this year the only real area Trumbo has him beat are in doubles, HR's and RBI's while playing 35ish more games. Honestly, what do you expect from Smoak? I think hitting .250(which he isn't far off) with 20-25 HR's and 90-100 RBI's(which I think he is capable of if healthy and hitting well) is reasonable. His walks are up and K's are down and his OBP is one of the best on the team. and on top of it he plays wicked defense at first. I honestly don't know how high of expectations you guys have but I don't think you want to see him go to another team because I could see him putting up big numbers soon. I say give them both another year, it's not like we are going to contend anytime soon and there aren't many guys down at AAA beating a path to 1B.

Just gotta at that the bolded. Your argument is Smoak is comparable to Mark Trumbo. That doesn't make Smoak a good player or even a decent player. Smoak ranks in the bottom half of all offensive categories among qualified MLB first basement, with the exception of walks. That's it. His .699 OPS is pathetic. First base is supposed to be a power position, and his 48 RBI are abysmal. His defense is nothing special and his production is only slightly above replacement level. Look at guys like Chris Davis, Joey Votto and Paul Goldschmidt so see what numbers real first basement put up.

 

[wazzu31]

Just gotta at that the bolded. Your argument is Smoak is comparable to Mark Trumbo. That doesn't make Smoak a good player or even a decent player. Smoak ranks in the bottom half of all offensive categories among qualified MLB first basement, with the exception of walks. That's it. His .699 OPS is pathetic. First base is supposed to be a power position, and his 48 RBI are abysmal. His defense is nothing special and his production is only slightly above replacement level. Look at guys like Chris Davis, Joey Votto and Paul Goldschmidt so see what numbers real first basement put up.

I've asked this before but wasn't Davis in the original Cliff Lee deal that Texas offered but Jack used the Yanks to get Smoak over Davis?

 

[hawkfan1073]

Just gotta at that the bolded. Your argument is Smoak is comparable to Mark Trumbo. That doesn't make Smoak a good player or even a decent player. Smoak ranks in the bottom half of all offensive categories among qualified MLB first basement, with the exception of walks. That's it. His .699 OPS is pathetic. First base is supposed to be a power position, and his 48 RBI are abysmal. His defense is nothing special and his production is only slightly above replacement level. Look at guys like Chris Davis, Joey Votto and Paul Goldschmidt so see what numbers real first basement put up.

Nice opinion