Game Thread: Water Thieves @ Rodominator

[tzill]

1. J Pederson (L) LF
2. B Belt (L) 1B
3. W Flores (R) 3B
4. M Yastrzemski (L) CF
5. B Crawford (L) SS
6. T Estrada (R) 2B
7. L Wade Jr. (L) DH
8. L Gonzalez (L) RF
9. A Wynns (R) C

Carlos Rodon
LHP
10-6, 2.95 ERA, 161 SO

Bart sitting still...

 

[pachyderm]

Fuck 'em up Rodon!

 

[Stokes1931]

San Diego Padres star Fernando Tatis Jr. suspended 80 games -- here's everything you need to know — ESPN

MLB announced megastar Fernando Tatis Jr. will miss the rest of the season because of a positive test for a banned substance. Here's what it means for Tatis and the Padres.

apple.news

 

[pachyderm]

San Diego Padres star Fernando Tatis Jr. suspended 80 games -- here's everything you need to know — ESPN

MLB announced megastar Fernando Tatis Jr. will miss the rest of the season because of a positive test for a banned substance. Here's what it means for Tatis and the Padres.

apple.news

wow.

 

[tzill]

As always, nobody wants to hear from fans of the GREATEST player in the history of the game about PEDs. However, this amounts to an IQ test: are you dumb enough to get caught? Tatis says "hell yeah." That said, they were formidable without him before, they'll be formidable after. 10 years almost to the day of the Melky incident, another dummy.

The precedent is set: Padres in four.

 

[LHG]

As always, nobody wants to hear from fans of the GREATEST player in the history of the game about PEDs. However, this amounts to an IQ test: are you dumb enough to get caught? Tatis says "hell yeah." That said, they were formidable without him before, they'll be formidable after. 10 years almost to the day of the Melky incident, another dummy.

The precedent is set: Padres in four.

I find it fascinating that the outrage over usage of PEDs is lower now that it is actually against MLB rules than it was when MLB didn't have rules. I would understand if the outrage was directed toward the commissioner's office for not having rules in place but all the outrage seems to be towards the players suspected of using when it was allowable.
The court of public opinion is savage in its verdicts (and very arbitrary).

 

[calsnowskier]

I find it fascinating that the outrage over usage of PEDs is lower now that it is actually against MLB rules than it was when MLB didn't have rules. I would understand if the outrage was directed toward the commissioner's office for not having rules in place but all the outrage seems to be towards the players suspected of using when it was allowable.
The court of public opinion is savage in its verdicts (and very arbitrary).

Yes and no.

The hatred of Barry is because he didn’t polish the knobs of the sports writers. That disdain came out in their narrative about him. He is unworthy of the accomplishments he achieved. Aaron was a greenie-fiend, but he was a pleasant guy, so no prob. Even though greenies were against the rules. Papi was personable (and “this is our FUCKING city”) so his connection to PEDs (and the fact that he doesn’t even own a glove) is no prob. The stuff Barry ALLEGEDLY used (I don’t doubt he used, but he never failed a REAL test) was not against baseball rules until well after he “retired” (was blackballed), but HE ruined the integrity of the game.

 

[tzill]

I find it fascinating that the outrage over usage of PEDs is lower now that it is actually against MLB rules than it was when MLB didn't have rules. I would understand if the outrage was directed toward the commissioner's office for not having rules in place but all the outrage seems to be towards the players suspected of using when it was allowable.
The court of public opinion is savage in its verdicts (and very arbitrary).

Not so arbitrary when you consider skin color and general temperament. BLB brought a good portion of it on himself by being a dickhead.

 

[tzill]

Yes and no.

The hatred of Barry is because he didn’t polish the knobs of the sports writers. That disdain came out in their narrative about him. He is unworthy of the accomplishments he achieved. Aaron was a greenie-fiend, but he was a pleasant guy, so no prob. Even though greenies were against the rules. Papi was personable (and “this is our FUCKING city”) so his connection to PEDs (and the fact that he doesn’t even own a glove) is no prob. The stuff Barry ALLEGEDLY used (I don’t doubt he used, but he never failed a REAL test) was not against baseball rules until well after he “retired” (was blackballed), but HE ruined the integrity of the game.

Agreed. He was better than those others BEFORE he used, and after -- he was otherworldly. He transcended the sport, for a solid five years. He will be the greatest player I ever got to see in orange and black...until Ohtani signs that 10 year deal next offseason.

 

[LHG]

Yes and no.

The hatred of Barry is because he didn’t polish the knobs of the sports writers. That disdain came out in their narrative about him. He is unworthy of the accomplishments he achieved. Aaron was a greenie-fiend, but he was a pleasant guy, so no prob. Even though greenies were against the rules. Papi was personable (and “this is our FUCKING city”) so his connection to PEDs (and the fact that he doesn’t even own a glove) is no prob. The stuff Barry ALLEGEDLY used (I don’t doubt he used, but he never failed a REAL test) was not against baseball rules until well after he “retired” (was blackballed), but HE ruined the integrity of the game.

Not so arbitrary when you consider skin color and general temperament. BLB brought a good portion of it on himself by being a dickhead.

It is arbitrary, in my opinion, based on what the stated reason for the outrage versus the real reason behind the outrage. PEDs is just a cover to dislike jerks. Just state the real reason. Of course, that doesn't make the arguments look any better but at least it makes more sense why the player is being black balled from the game.

 

[pachyderm]

As always, nobody wants to hear from fans of the GREATEST player in the history of the game about PEDs. However, this amounts to an IQ test: are you dumb enough to get caught? Tatis says "hell yeah." That said, they were formidable without him before, they'll be formidable after. 10 years almost to the day of the Melky incident, another dummy.

The precedent is set: Padres in four.

Babe Ruth took PEDs?

 

[calsnowskier]

Babe Ruth took PEDs?

Ruth is most likely the most important player in the history of the game (for the game itself), but I don’t think he is GOAT.


Mays
Bonds
Henderson
Williams
…

 

[SF11704]

It is arbitrary, in my opinion, based on what the stated reason for the outrage versus the real reason behind the outrage. PEDs is just a cover to dislike jerks. Just state the real reason. Of course, that doesn't make the arguments look any better but at least it makes more sense why the player is being black balled from the game.

I was living in NY when all of the baseball world was centered on PEDS and Bonds. When it was first assumed that he was guilty the NYY fan base went wild. They would have stripped him of every accomplishment he ever achieved. They hated him for a number of reasons. Thought he was a jerk followed by he was going to pass both Aaron and Ruth .... and followed by .... you always have your racist population up in arms for whatever reason they could put a thought to. But ... it was much easier to just call him a cheater, a drug user or whatever worked. They just wanted to asterisk everything related to Bonds.

Then when AROD was actually found to to be guilty of using .... they went silent on the drug issue as it related to AROD. According to them ... it was all pressure.

Some of the stories in the NY area where just unbelievable. According to these idiots ... These enhancement drugs would allow a player like Bonds to hit 'warning track' balls and have them magically carry into the stands by 5 or more rows. Thus increasing his HR totals by quite a few homers. They also thought that these wonder drugs could somehow change the natural playing ability of the person taking them. They just hated him ... and Bonds being somewhat difficult .... just heightened that feeling. A real shame .... he was a great (maybe the greatest) player to ever play the game .... and that fact will be lost to many many fans .... for all rhe wrong reasons.

I can't truthfully say that Bonds was the greatest player I ever saw play the game. I was 8 when Mays entered baseball. I grew up watching him play. For me ... he was the all around best player I ever had the pleasure to see. I actually did see Ted Williams play a game but I was a Giant fan at the time and it was the very end of his career.

 

[LHG]

I was living in NY when all of the baseball world was centered on PEDS and Bonds. When it was first assumed that he was guilty the NYY fan base went wild. They would have stripped him of every accomplishment he ever achieved. They hated him for a number of reasons. Thought he was a jerk followed by he was going to pass both Aaron and Ruth .... and followed by .... you always have your racist population up in arms for whatever reason they could put a thought to. But ... it was much easier to just call him a cheater, a drug user or whatever worked. They just wanted to asterisk everything related to Bonds.

Then when AROD was actually found to to be guilty of using .... they went silent on the drug issue as it related to AROD. According to them ... it was all pressure.

Some of the stories in the NY area where just unbelievable. According to these idiots ... These enhancement drugs would allow a player like Bonds to hit 'warning track' balls and have them magically carry into the stands by 5 or more rows. Thus increasing his HR totals by quite a few homers. They also thought that these wonder drugs could somehow change the natural playing ability of the person taking them. They just hated him ... and Bonds being somewhat difficult .... just heightened that feeling. A real shame .... he was a great (maybe the greatest) player to ever play the game .... and that fact will be lost to many many fans .... for all rhe wrong reasons.

I can't truthfully say that Bonds was the greatest player I ever saw play the game. I was 8 when Mays entered baseball. I grew up watching him play. For me ... he was the all around best player I ever had the pleasure to see. I actually did see Ted Williams play a game but I was a Giant fan at the time and it was the very end of his career.

And that is what I see as the arbitrary nature of the outrage. Pile on a guy suspected of cheating but go silent a guy actually caught cheating when cheating was no longer allowed in the game. The issues isn't really PEDs, it, like many of you pointed out, finding a way to further vilify a player you don't like.
There was an article (probably 15 years ago) that talked about how much more power, on average, PEDs gave a player. It gave a guy who hit a ball to the very end of the warning track enough added pop to put it about 2 or 3 feet over the wall. Guys hitting bombs 50 feet beyond the fence were going to still hit home runs, just not quite as spectacularly.
What I don't remember ever reading was the effect PEDs had on pitching performance. They were used on both sides of the pitcher-hitter face off. Did that neutralize the outcomes?

 

[tzill]

Babe Ruth took PEDs?

Babe Ruth was good against the white boys/
But he couldn't hit a ninja like Doc Gooden

--Da Lynch Mob, You and Your Heroes.

 

[tzill]

Ruth is most likely the most important player in the history of the game (for the game itself), but I don’t think he is GOAT.


Mays
Bonds
Henderson
Williams
…

Yes. This.

We can argue about the exact order, but Ruth is top 5 with Mays/Bonds/Hendo/Teddy

Until Shohei pushes his way in.

 

[tzill]

I was living in NY when all of the baseball world was centered on PEDS and Bonds. When it was first assumed that he was guilty the NYY fan base went wild. They would have stripped him of every accomplishment he ever achieved. They hated him for a number of reasons. Thought he was a jerk followed by he was going to pass both Aaron and Ruth .... and followed by .... you always have your racist population up in arms for whatever reason they could put a thought to. But ... it was much easier to just call him a cheater, a drug user or whatever worked. They just wanted to asterisk everything related to Bonds.

Then when AROD was actually found to to be guilty of using .... they went silent on the drug issue as it related to AROD. According to them ... it was all pressure.

Some of the stories in the NY area where just unbelievable. According to these idiots ... These enhancement drugs would allow a player like Bonds to hit 'warning track' balls and have them magically carry into the stands by 5 or more rows. Thus increasing his HR totals by quite a few homers. They also thought that these wonder drugs could somehow change the natural playing ability of the person taking them. They just hated him ... and Bonds being somewhat difficult .... just heightened that feeling. A real shame .... he was a great (maybe the greatest) player to ever play the game .... and that fact will be lost to many many fans .... for all rhe wrong reasons.

I can't truthfully say that Bonds was the greatest player I ever saw play the game. I was 8 when Mays entered baseball. I grew up watching him play. For me ... he was the all around best player I ever had the pleasure to see. I actually did see Ted Williams play a game but I was a Giant fan at the time and it was the very end of his career.

I'm the same re: Mays. End of his career, stumbling around in the OF for the Mess. My Zaidi never really forgave him for that. Per gramps, Mays was the greatest. I often wonder what he would have thought about Barry.

 

[tzill]

And that is what I see as the arbitrary nature of the outrage. Pile on a guy suspected of cheating but go silent a guy actually caught cheating when cheating was no longer allowed in the game. The issues isn't really PEDs, it, like many of you pointed out, finding a way to further vilify a player you don't like.
There was an article (probably 15 years ago) that talked about how much more power, on average, PEDs gave a player. It gave a guy who hit a ball to the very end of the warning track enough added pop to put it about 2 or 3 feet over the wall. Guys hitting bombs 50 feet beyond the fence were going to still hit home runs, just not quite as spectacularly.
What I don't remember ever reading was the effect PEDs had on pitching performance. They were used on both sides of the pitcher-hitter face off. Did that neutralize the outcomes?

The great advantage of PEDs is recovery time. In short, it helped BLB hit homers in August and September he might not have. They are also wonderful at eye repair specifically (my brother is an eye surgeon) and they definitely helped BLB maintain his otherworldly batting eye.

Sure, they helped him. But it was the perfect storm of tremendous natural talent plus state of the art nutrition and training and steroids. The result was the greatest hitter we've ever seen.

But, and this has been pointed out ad nauseam -- he was a HOF before he even started using the clear and the cream.

The Baseball HOF is a phuking joke, just like the UN. Institutions that should be much better than they really are.

 

[calsnowskier]

I am not a huge fan of the “he was a HOFer before he cheated” argument. Mainly because of Pete Rose, though. Rose’s transgression was sooooo egregious that what he did before is immaterial. If you believe Bonds’ transgressions so bad, what he did before he “broke bad” shouldn’t matter.

 

[pachyderm]

Ruth is most likely the most important player in the history of the game (for the game itself), but I don’t think he is GOAT.


Mays
Bonds
Henderson
Williams
…

Bobby Bonds was ok but he wasn't the one of the greatest...