Was that our defense?

[WizardHawk]

LOL...Dalton ate up Chancellor and Williams. Dalton ran in a 5 yd, untouched QB sneak for Christ's sake.

Face it, your season will be over after next weeks loss. Where the hell was Rawls in OT???

Remember, you all should have lost last week to the Lions if refs knew the rules. Choking away 4th Qtr leads is very telling of bad D and coaching/play calling. Especially 17 point leads with 2 minutes left in the 3rd Qtr

Troll fail

I had this as a loss before the season. I saw this team 5-3 at the break and I still see it that way. Panthers are coming in at the wrong time if they ever had a chance of beating this team and don't even suggest the 9'ers or the dumpster fire cowboys have any bullets left in their chambers.

No one's buying your bullshit so take it somewhere else.

 

[packerzrule]

perhaps Chancellor isn't make as much of an impact as expected??

 

[JMR]

perhaps Chancellor isn't make as much of an impact as expected??

Just curious -- was that your thought after 3 quarters yesterday when it was 24-7 and a grand total of 10 points had been given up in 11 quarters since his return, or did the final 12 minutes of that game represent an epiphany?

 

[blstoker]

Ok, if you don't like putting 10% on the offense when this is a defensive team and it shamefully dumped 17 down the stretch, then how much of our offense would you attribute to Lynch vs Wilson and the rest of it? 40% lynch? Certainly no less than 35%. Say what you want about the rookie and a few of the nice runs he had, but he missed yards Lynch gets even hurt and that was painfully obvious in the 4th.

That's why it's 90% on the D. They HAD to step up and help cover an offense that wasn't stout with Lynch, that now is running without him.

Defense blew that game.

As an aside, this morning on the MMQB segement on KJR Millen's likes and dislikes went in this order on dislikes:
Kam - terrible game.
Williams - terrible game.
Irvin - many mistakes, not really there
Wagner - blew many of his assignments
And he went on a fairly lengthy rant about how bad Graham is at running routes. He said there are some he is really good at, and many he just is terrible at.

5 dislikes and 4 of them were on the defense.

There is no one objective that is going to conclude that defense didn't blow that game despite the fact that one or two more first downs and it would have been sealed. You gave up 2 TD's and a FG in one quarter when you are supposed to be an established defense that closes out games. Just total fail.

exactly. Here's something else:

Andy Dalton pass complete deep middle to Marvin Jones for 44 yards (tackle by K.J. Wright)

Andy Dalton pass complete deep left to A.J. Green for 22 yards (tackle by Cary Williams)

Andy Dalton pass complete deep left to A.J. Green for 72 yards. Penalty on Andrew Whitworth: Offensive Holding, 10 yards (no play)

Andy Dalton pass complete deep middle to Mohamed Sanu for 21 yards (tackle by Cary Williams)

Andy Dalton pass incomplete deep left intended for Marvin Jones. Penalty on Cary Williams: Defensive Pass Interference, 29 yards (no play)

Andy Dalton pass complete short middle to Mohamed Sanu for 25 yards (tackle by Kam Chancellor)

Andy Dalton pass incomplete deep right intended for Marvin Jones. Penalty on Cary Williams: Defensive Pass Interference, 27 yards (no play)

Andy Dalton pass complete deep right to Tyler Eifert for 25 yards (tackle by Kam Chancellor)

8 times the Seahawks gave the Bengals a 20 yard play (though 1 came back). 8! and most (I believe it was 6) were before the 4th quarter. Seattle used to win on defense specifically for not allowing plays that long, but this season I wouldn't doubt if we aren't already near he total we had for all of last year. We've already given up some 20 20+ yard plays.

 

[blstoker]

perhaps Chancellor isn't make as much of an impact as expected??

I'd say he's had an impact - some of it good, some of it bad.

 

[packerzrule]

Just curious -- was that your thought after 3 quarters yesterday when it was 24-7 and a grand total of 10 points had been given up in 11 quarters since his return, or did the final 12 minutes of that game represent an epiphany?

the game was televised locally so was just getting periodical updates

not slamming anyone or trash talking, just making an observation that when the Defense was struggling without Chancellor, most were claiming that when he returns, the D would once again rise to elite status. Seeing as the Hawks blew another 4th quarter lead, was just wondering if the mindset of the Hawks fans has changed

 

[blstoker]

Now, that it appears that I have shredded the defense, let's put yesterday into perspective.

Someone mentioned that Tharold Simon went on the IR and it was asked why that mattered. It mattered because Simon, Burley and Smith were all out yesterday - leaving our nickel position to be played by our back up strong safety. I like Shead and his versatility, but having only 2 active CBs will limit your ability to do things. We had people out of position all day long, and part of that may have been people being asked to play different roles than they are used to. Bringing up Rod Smith was nice for RB depth (especially with Jackson having had that ankle sprain last week), but I'm not sure another CB wouldn't have been a good choice as well.

Cary Williams is in a new system, asked to do new things and is getting a baptism by fire. I expect him to make adjustments by the end of the seasons. We'll have to see, but no matter what happens with Williams, we need more than 2 CBs active.

 

[JMR]

the game was televised locally so was just getting periodical updates

not slamming anyone or trash talking, just making an observation that when the Defense was struggling without Chancellor, most were claiming that when he returns, the D would once again rise to elite status. Seeing as the Hawks blew another 4th quarter lead, was just wondering if the mindset of the Hawks fans has changed

Fair enough. I'm sure you can find some Hawks fans who are overly influenced by what happened in the 4th quarter, but I try not to be a prisoner of the moment. Kam has been back 3 games. First was a shut-out, 2nd the D gave up 3, and then yesterday on the road vs the #2 offense in the league they allowed 7 through 3 quarters. To me that's quite a bit of evidence, despite the issues in the 4th quarter. Kam actually didn't have a great game yesterday, either. The D is still really good but not perfect.

 

[blstoker]

Fair enough. I'm sure you can find some Hawks fans who are overly influenced by what happened in the 4th quarter, but I try not to be a prisoner of the moment. Kam has been back 3 games. First was a shut-out, 2nd the D gave up 3, and then yesterday on the road vs the #2 offense in the league they allowed 7 through 3 quarters. To me that's quite a bit of evidence, despite the issues in the 4th quarter. Kam actually didn't have a great game yesterday, either. The D is still really good but not perfect.

To be fair, the first quarter TD was the same as the 4th quarter td. Chancellor blew the coverage (at least that's what it looks like) and it was an easy score. If either of those two plays is covered who knows what we're talking about. The defense as a whole played better after that, until the 4th.

Chancellor, to me, just isn't playing at his best. I expect as he gets further into the season he'll get into a better rhythm, but even in the last two games, I haven't been terribly impressed overall (as in I think he's not playing as well as he has in the past).

So, he's made some good plays and he's made some bad plays that he usually doesn't make. I expect him to clean up the latter and be playing at his usual high level within the next couple weeks.

 

[JMR]

To be fair, the first quarter TD was the same as the 4th quarter td. Chancellor blew the coverage (at least that's what it looks like) and it was an easy score. If either of those two plays is covered who knows what we're talking about. The defense as a whole played better after that, until the 4th.

Chancellor, to me, just isn't playing at his best. I expect as he gets further into the season he'll get into a better rhythm, but even in the last two games, I haven't been terribly impressed overall (as in I think he's not playing as well as he has in the past).

So, he's made some good plays and he's made some bad plays that he usually doesn't make. I expect him to clean up the latter and be playing at his usual high level within the next couple weeks.

Yeah, he got beat on those 2 more or less identical plays. I expected Cincy to have a couple good drives based on how well they were playing, and I was extremely happy where we were defensively after 75% of that game had been played. After qtr #3, it was clear to me who the better team was. Then the 4th qtr happened.

Just guessing, but on the 2nd TD over Kam's head it almost seemed like he thought they were trying to give the same look and go underneath him across the middle. He stayed home looking for the big play and got toasted by the same player running the same route.

 

[LambeauLegs]

Yeah, the 4th quarter failures this season are disconcerting. The volume of things that all had to happen and go wrong for us to lose that game yesterday at the point where we were ahead 24-7 are nearly mind-boggling. No sustained drives, no defensive stops, big punt return, iffy PI calls (at least 1 for sure was iffy), big pass play wiped away, big INT return wiped away. Flip any 1 of those things and it's probably a W.

Yes indeed I remember a game similar where all kinds of mid boggling things had happen to lose a game with a 19 - 7 lead in the 4th quarter but crazy shit can happen sometimes.

One more first down by the O or one more stop by the D would have most likely won the game but it didnt work out that way.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Bend but don't break has never flied in the NFL and Seattle still chooses to do it lol. On top of that, Bevell's ultra conservative offensive play when we have the lead is getting ridiculous. It was okay I guess when we have a 100% Lynch and the Unger/Carp/Okung trio, but it isn't going to fly these days.

I like the Pats style of play. That team does not let off the gas until the full 60 minutes is over. 35-10? Yah, we want to make it 42-10 after our next drive.

 

[scoutyjones2]

Troll fail

I had this as a loss before the season. I saw this team 5-3 at the break and I still see it that way. Panthers are coming in at the wrong time if they ever had a chance of beating this team and don't even suggest the 9'ers or the dumpster fire cowboys have any bullets left in their chambers.

No one's buying your bullshit so take it somewhere else.

You don't like the truth so call it trolling...like I give a shit.

Your team is in a spiral and has a tough schedule, close your eyes all you want but this team is not playoff bound. Should be 1-4...lucky, because of stupid refs, to be 2-3!

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Ok, if you don't like putting 10% on the offense when this is a defensive team and it shamefully dumped 17 down the stretch, then how much of our offense would you attribute to Lynch vs Wilson and the rest of it? 40% lynch? Certainly no less than 35%. Say what you want about the rookie and a few of the nice runs he had, but he missed yards Lynch gets even hurt and that was painfully obvious in the 4th.

That's why it's 90% on the D. They HAD to step up and help cover an offense that wasn't stout with Lynch, that now is running without him.

Defense blew that game.

As an aside, this morning on the MMQB segement on KJR Millen's likes and dislikes went in this order on dislikes:
Kam - terrible game.
Williams - terrible game.
Irvin - many mistakes, not really there
Wagner - blew many of his assignments
And he went on a fairly lengthy rant about how bad Graham is at running routes. He said there are some he is really good at, and many he just is terrible at.

5 dislikes and 4 of them were on the defense.

There is no one objective that is going to conclude that defense didn't blow that game despite the fact that one or two more first downs and it would have been sealed. You gave up 2 TD's and a FG in one quarter when you are supposed to be an established defense that closes out games. Just total fail.

Keep in mind, your going against the#1 offense the the NFL in they're house .. How long is your defense suppose to completely shut them down ? Take away the 1st drive by Cincy which was a terrible job by Kam in the zone coverage, the Bengals got SHUT DOWN after that 1st drive.... Seattle's D even put 7 on the board ... Our O cannot be let of the hook in this one.... 1 good drive late and were talking about a great road victory... They stunk it up the entire 4th quarter and in overtime... Our O did NOTHING .... And I don't think our D was great down the stretch by any means, they weren't ... but they sure could a used some offensive help late .... and they got ZERO help ...

 

[scoutyjones2]

LOL...17 point lead with a little over a QTR to play...that's on the D.

And yes, your top notch QB hates being in the pocket. He's a pocket sized passer who can't see his receivers from there and gets antsy. No playoffs this year...you still haven't even played Arizona yet!

 

[WizardHawk]

Keep in mind, your going against the#1 offense the the NFL in they're house .. How long is your defense suppose to completely shut them down ? Take away the 1st drive by Cincy which was a terrible job by Kam in the zone coverage, the Bengals got SHUT DOWN after that 1st drive.... Seattle's D even put 7 on the board ... Our O cannot be let of the hook in this one.... 1 good drive late and were talking about a great road victory... They stunk it up the entire 4th quarter and in overtime... Our O did NOTHING .... And I don't think our D was great down the stretch by any means, they weren't ... but they sure could a used some offensive help late .... and they got ZERO help ...

Every expert that has looked at that game rated the defense as awful. That's how the rest of the world sees it. You use score as an indicator, but they got lucky as hell that Dalton underthrew that ball that got picked or that drive ends in points and the scoop fumble is the only reason they ever got up by that much. Without those two plays the team is blown out.

No one on that defense got high marks for their play. No one. They gave up 3 first downs on stupid penalties on those lake game drives all on 3rd downs? Just don't be stupid on ANY of those and it's game over in our favor.

How about Bennett not being stupid and banging a guys head on the ground and removing 50y off a play. Just don't do that and see what happens.

You have to entirely ignore very sub par play for that unit to not see what impact it had on that game.

 

[WizardHawk]

You don't like the truth so call it trolling...like I give a shit.

Your team is in a spiral and has a tough schedule, close your eyes all you want but this team is not playoff bound. Should be 1-4...lucky, because of stupid refs, to be 2-3!

Only reason this team isn't 4-1 right now is Kam's hold out and Lynch's injury.

Easy to play woulda/coulda/shoulda isn't it?

Take your BS somewhere else. That shit belongs on the NFL general board, not team boards. Better yet, go learn something about football before you go spouting off about things you have no clue about.

 

[Anointed One]

And he went on a fairly lengthy rant about how bad Graham is at running routes. He said there are some he is really good at, and many he just is terrible at.

Who did?

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

LOL...Dalton ate up Chancellor and Williams. Dalton ran in a 5 yd, untouched QB sneak for Christ's sake.

Face it, your season will be over after next weeks loss. Where the hell was Rawls in OT???

Remember, you all should have lost last week to the Lions if refs knew the rules. Choking away 4th Qtr leads is very telling of bad D and coaching/play calling. Especially 17 point leads with 2 minutes left in the 3rd Qtr

Carolina has their hands full ... Remember we've had a helluva tough schedule starting out this season... Let's see where we are at the halfway point...

 

[WizardHawk]

Who did?

Hugh Millen.

Millen, Holmgren, and whoever is the former player that was on the furness show all said they have seen how lazy and ineffective Graham has been on many of his routes and he doesn't stay active on scramble plays often.