Warriors: calling the haters and lovers

[WiggyRuss]

I think a line-up of:

• Steph
• Thompson
• Wiggins
• Green
• {insert random center who hopefully can shoot a little and defend a little}

is pretty dang good and (if I were a Warriors fan) I would be kinda psyched to see such a thing in action next year.

So, IOW, the Warriors don't really "need" to do anything. Nor should they necessarily. Maybe keep that pick and develop a young guy just cause. A rookie contract is a $$$ saver, too.

Of course, if a great deal pops open somehow.... sure, pull the trigger on that. But that's always true.

itll be interesting to see if they can get Wiggins to take less shots and really focus on defense.

I have always been a big believer in Wiggins and still think he can be an all star level player. He certainly has the talent, the athletic ability, crazy length, etc.

Coming out of the draft all the talk was how he has the tools to be one of the best wing defenders in the league.

But- the question has been and always will be--- can you get Wiggins to buy into a situation where he is taking less shots and giving 100% on the defensive end.

I think it was a solid gamble for the Warriors to make. Id def. roll the dice on Wiggins since there just arent many guys out there with that talent.

Now- that doesnt mean theres not risk -there is a ton of risk - especially consdiering its not like he is a new player at this point. Its hard to change a guy after being in the league for what? 5-6 years?

 

[buckalis]

It is to the GSW maximum interest that they stay under the lux tax threshold for another season, therefore one out of the big contracts will be parted from the roster this season.

Most probably GSW will draft both the picks they have and the big contract they will trade, (probably Wiggins) they will use with the trade exception they have in stock, so that they can take many pieces back and damp salary as well.

If GSW would move into the tax next season, it would then mean that they would be repeaters tax eligible a season later and that would automatically put them out from chasing Giannis... No way they exclude themselves from having a chance on Giannis.

 

[WiggyRuss]

It is to the GSW maximum interest that they stay under the lux tax threshold for another season, therefore one out of the big contracts will be parted from the roster this season.

Most probably GSW will draft both the picks they have and the big contract they will trade, (probably Wiggins) they will use with the trade exception they have in stock, so that they can take many pieces back and damp salary as well.

If GSW would move into the tax next season, it would then mean that they would be repeaters tax eligible a season later and that would automatically put them out from chasing Giannis... No way they exclude themselves from having a chance on Giannis.

i think this is true- but am not sure......

i am not exactly sure what you have to do to re-set the repeater tax violations. It might be being under the lux. tax for 2 seasons.

Also- i am not sure how the fact that they became hard-capped with the Russell trade factors into the equation. it would take some research to answer those 2 questions.

 

[buckalis]

i think this is true- but am not sure......

i am not exactly sure what you have to do to re-set the repeater tax violations. It might be being under the lux. tax for 2 seasons.

Also- i am not sure how the fact that they became hard-capped with the Russell trade factors into the equation. it would take some research to answer those 2 questions.

In simple words: "you can't be in the lux tax more than 3 times the later 5 years, if you are 4 times, you are repeaters tax eligible"

It means that if GSW stays under the tax another season, they will then be able to go back in during the 21/22 season and for another two seasons that follow, without being repeaters tax eligible...

if however they would go into the tax for the next season, they are repeaters tax eligible a season later which is the most stupid thing an "Einstein" GM could come up with... (and of course puts them out of any "Giannis conversation")

 

[msgkings322]

i think this is true- but am not sure......

i am not exactly sure what you have to do to re-set the repeater tax violations. It might be being under the lux. tax for 2 seasons.

Also- i am not sure how the fact that they became hard-capped with the Russell trade factors into the equation. it would take some research to answer those 2 questions.

It's all moot, Buckalis can't conceive of a team paying the tax. The Warriors will definitely over the tax line next year.

 

[buckalis]

It's all moot, Buckalis can't conceive of a team paying the tax. The Warriors will definitely over the tax line next year.

Dream on...

No chance in a million!

Like I was saying to you last year when you was insisting on the same...

"the executives are smarter than you can ever be and the money they lose are not your dad's pocket money".

 

[logic]

Dream on...

No chance in a million!

Like I was saying to you last year when you was insisting on the same...

"the executives are smarter than you can ever be and the money they lose are not your dad's pocket money".

I don't know, with Dramond and Klay at 30 and Steph at 32 to start next season can they really afford to wait another year to compete for a Championship? This year was lost due to injuries. Stay under the cap and not compete for another year and your core players have will be on the decline and you will have lost more of the momentun the franchise had. I think they pay it up and go for it next year, the future be damned. Another ring would be worth paying the repeaters tax if they could still compete the year after that.

 

[buckalis]

I don't know, with Dramond and Klay at 30 and Steph at 32 to start next season can they really afford to wait another year to compete for a Championship? This year was lost due to injuries. Stay under the cap and not compete for another year and your core players have will be on the decline and you will have lost more of the momentun the franchise had. I think they pay it up and go for it next year, the future be damned. Another ring would be worth paying the repeaters tax if they could still compete the year after that.

However your reasoning has many flaws...

1. there is no AD anymore...

2. it will take them more than Wiggins + the picks to replace for AD's absence, if they can make back for losing AD.

3. The environment has changed to the much better than it was before and it is expected to be even better next season...

4. No team has ever come back from last to best before.

5. The money aren't worth risking, because it then is "3-years money", not "1-season money" like it will be if they postpone for a season and spend the next "measuring" themselves with respect to competition.

6. Unlike the Lakers or the Rockets, they don't have the "buy a title" culture, but are based on their own creations to win... It is a huge part of what makes them shine out as a name.

7. Because of 6 before, they will draft and a season isn't enough to have the rookies developed in order to have the team back into contention for the title.

8. (most important) they know how to achieve the best effiency they can out of their resources... They don't have naive fans running the organisation.

 

[logic]

However your reasoning has many flaws...

1. there is no AD anymore...

2. it will take them more than Wiggins + the picks to replace for AD's absence, if they can make back for losing AD.

3. The environment has changed to the much better than it was before and it is expected to be even better next season...

4. No team has ever come back from last to best before.

5. The money aren't worth risking, because it then is "3-years money", not "1-season money" like it will be if they postpone for a season and spend the next "measuring" themselves with respect to competition.

6. Unlike the Lakers or the Rockets, they don't have the "buy a title" culture, but are based on their own creations to win... It is a huge part of what makes them shine out as a name.

7. Because of 6 before, they will draft and a season isn't enough to have the rookies developed in order to have the team back into contention for the title.

8. (most important) they know how to achieve the best effiency they can out of their resources... They don't have naive fans running the organisation.

They never had AD, he was a Pelican and is now a laker.
They won a title without KD.
Their core is not getting any younger, all going to be on the wrong side of 30.
They can't afford not to wait.
They didn't ahve a culture of buying a championship because they didn't need to. They had young stars they had developed. Now they have an aging core that needs to win before they need to retire. And they did trade for KD, is that not part of your "buying a title culture"?
In my view it is not worth the risk of not going for it and thinking you have time to rebuild around your veterans. You have to make your run when you have the opportunity.
They ain't affraid to spend.

 

[buckalis]

Jesus... you call that (and yourself) "logic" mate?

They never had AD, he was a Pelican and is now a laker.
They won a title without KD.

not in this season's competition... No where near it actually!

Their core is not getting any younger, all going to be on the wrong side of 30. They can't afford not to wait.

So what? The Bucks have 7 key pieces on the "wrong side of 30" (on Bledsoe, the Lopez twins, Hill, Matthews, Korver and Williams... none of them seems to be any worst than he was the previous season and Bledsoe, Hill, the Lopez twins and Williams are clearly better than they were last season.

One season later won't affect their abilities at all, but the team will have the time to make all the improvements necessary, as well as to have the youth stepping up.

They didn't have a culture of buying a championship because they didn't need to. They had young stars they had developed. Now they have an aging core that needs to win before they need to retire. And they did trade for KD, is that not part of your "buying a title culture"?

No it's not... They didn't force the trade like the Lakers did! they payed out of their own resources and creations in an agreement... it's a legitimate part of the process! And then again, they didn't blew the team up like the Lakers did and bought "missioners" and everything that Klatch supplied to them...

In my view it is not worth the risk of not going for it and thinking you have time to rebuild around your veterans. You have to make your run when you have the opportunity.
They ain't affraid to spend.

But you don't run the organiation either!

 

[logic]

Jesus... you call that (and yourself) "logic" mate?



not in this season's competition... No where near it actually!

So what? The Bucks have 7 key pieces on the "wrong side of 30" (on Bledsoe, the Lopez twins, Hill, Matthews, Korver and Williams... none of them seems to be any worst than he was the previous season and Bledsoe, Hill, the Lopez twins and Williams are clearly better than they were last season.

One season later won't affect their abilities at all, but the team will have the time to make all the improvements necessary, as well as to have the youth stepping up.


No it's not... They didn't force the trade like the Lakers did! they payed out of their own resources and creations in an agreement... it's a legitimate part of the process! And then again, they didn't blew the team up like the Lakers did and bought "missioners" and everything that Klatch supplied to them...


But you don't run the organiation either!

Who is the AD of whom you speak then?

The Bucks may have a bunch of guys on the wrong side of 30, but I don't consider them the core--that would be Giannis and Kris. And once you hit 30 most guys do start to decline, so one season does make a difference, sometimes a big difference.

Trade is a trade. Everyone has to make room one way or another to bring in a big name. Clearly the Warriors didn't have to blow it up when they got KD, they were already champions. However, if they continue to wait on their aging core they will be in a situation where they may need to blow it up.

Hey, guess what, you don't run the Warriors either and have no more insight than I do.

As @CitySushi said you should not state things that are your opinion as fact.

 

[msgkings322]

Dream on...

No chance in a million!

Like I was saying to you last year when you was insisting on the same...

"the executives are smarter than you can ever be and the money they lose are not your dad's pocket money".

Nope. You're wrong I'm right.

Actually, you're wrong and the rest of the world is right.

 

[CitySushi]

i think this is true- but am not sure......

i am not exactly sure what you have to do to re-set the repeater tax violations. It might be being under the lux. tax for 2 seasons.

Also- i am not sure how the fact that they became hard-capped with the Russell trade factors into the equation. it would take some research to answer those 2 questions.

Because the Warriors ducked the luxury tax this year, it means they remain out of the repeater tax this year as well for next year even if they pay a luxury tax. So there will be no luxury tax penalty for the Warriors in 2020-2021. There will be a luxury tax penalty though in 2022 if the Warriors remain in the tax.

The Warriors still remain hard capped, but with all their salary dumps at the deadline, they were able to shed enough contracts to remain under the tax. They will navigate this by signing a bunch of 10-day contracts for the remainder of the season.

But I think you'll at least get a laugh out of this...Buckalis thinks that what the Warriors should do is to avoid the luxury tax, simply dump salary. In order to do so the Warriors would have to trade pick assets to get someone to take Wiggins. Nevermind that not a lot of teams have flat out cap space to absorb him this upcoming year, that doesn't matter.

So what Buck wants the Warriors to do is sacrifice the last remaining years in Steph/Klay/Draymond's prime, and also trade away our future assets, just so they remain under the tax line. Lacob has also said he's willing to pay the tax "if it makes sense", which as you know with Dan Gilbert is true when an ownership is dedicated to winning. They will spend.

 

[CitySushi]

However your reasoning has many flaws...

1. there is no AD anymore...

2. it will take them more than Wiggins + the picks to replace for AD's absence, if they can make back for losing AD.

3. The environment has changed to the much better than it was before and it is expected to be even better next season...

4. No team has ever come back from last to best before.

5. The money aren't worth risking, because it then is "3-years money", not "1-season money" like it will be if they postpone for a season and spend the next "measuring" themselves with respect to competition.

6. Unlike the Lakers or the Rockets, they don't have the "buy a title" culture, but are based on their own creations to win... It is a huge part of what makes them shine out as a name.

7. Because of 6 before, they will draft and a season isn't enough to have the rookies developed in order to have the team back into contention for the title.

8. (most important) they know how to achieve the best effiency they can out of their resources... They don't have naive fans running the organisation.

1. It's KD.

2. I agree.

3. Ok.

4. Spurs ended up winning the lottery with the 3rd worst record. They won the Championship the following year. Why? Because they had an injured David Robinson who was out all year. Sound familiar with the Warriors situation?

5. It is worth risking if you have a title opportunity. If you don't have a title opportunity (as they did not this year) then yes it makes sense to dump salary. But the Warriors have paid the tax before and even the owner has said he's willing to do so again to MAXIMIZE the last remaining prime years for Steph.

6. The Warriors are going to do whatever they can to win. Outside of trading Steph and Klay the roster is open for overhaul if the Warriors felt it would be in their best interest at remaining a title contender.

7. The Warriors don't need the rookie to develop in order for them to win. The Warriors will also have a 17.5M TPE and a FULL MLE to use this off-season.

8. Have you looked into the resources the Warriors have? Have you looked into how much new money the new arena has generated, even in this shit year? Can you imagine how much more money and sponsorships they'll have if they put out a championship caliber product? Answer is: A Lot.

 

[Shanemansj13]

1. It's KD.

2. I agree.

3. Ok.

4. Spurs ended up winning the lottery with the 3rd worst record. They won the Championship the following year. Why? Because they had an injured David Robinson who was out all year. Sound familiar with the Warriors situation?

5. It is worth risking if you have a title opportunity. If you don't have a title opportunity (as they did not this year) then yes it makes sense to dump salary. But the Warriors have paid the tax before and even the owner has said he's willing to do so again to MAXIMIZE the last remaining prime years for Steph.

6. The Warriors are going to do whatever they can to win. Outside of trading Steph and Klay the roster is open for overhaul if the Warriors felt it would be in their best interest at remaining a title contender.

7. The Warriors don't need the rookie to develop in order for them to win. The Warriors will also have a 17.5M TPE and a FULL MLE to use this off-season.

8. Have you looked into the resources the Warriors have? Have you looked into how much new money the new arena has generated, even in this shit year? Can you imagine how much more money and sponsorships they'll have if they put out a championship caliber product? Answer is: A Lot.

Your post pretty much screams, "Bucky...you have no clue what you are talking about so stop talking about it" but you are a nice guy

 

[buckalis]

Nope. You're wrong I'm right.

Actually, you're wrong and the rest of the world is right.

you was insisting on the same last season... "the owners said...", "no way the Warriors have a problem to pay the lux and the repeaters tax...", "They will resign KD...", "After... they won't trade Russell"..., +a million other nonsense that proved to be wrong and me (out of the world) right... Heck, you even started it calling names...

Things are simple though: "200M is not your dad's pocket money for you to risk on a coin machine"...

that is the amount over three seasons they'll be losing by throwing it out of the window and then it gets worst, because they will have to move on a rebuilt!

Therefore use your brains for once and then it becomes very easy for you to realize what's best for your own team... Cause that is exactly what they'll be doing: "what is best for your team"...

Therefore:
1. They will land youth, they will either draft, or use the picks to add proven young talent on rookie contracts.
2. They will spend (extremely wisely) the season "measuring themselves" in the new enviroment that has developed.
3. They will sacrifice one big contract (Wiggins looks the most probable), "marry it" with the trade exception and damp salary along with adding more youth!
4. They will "correct" the main flaw they had during the previous seasons, which could have cost them some (or all) of the titles they've won... That is, they will add depth which will allow them to deal with injuries and shortcomings...

All they will do is looking forward to the future and not to "commit suicide" going after a (hopeless to win the title) season as any naive "fan" (enemy of his own team) would suggest...

I bet you'll be reading this next season too...

 

[buckalis]

1. It's KD.

2. I agree.

3. Ok.

4. Spurs ended up winning the lottery with the 3rd worst record. They won the Championship the following year. Why? Because they had an injured David Robinson who was out all year. Sound familiar with the Warriors situation?

5. It is worth risking if you have a title opportunity. If you don't have a title opportunity (as they did not this year) then yes it makes sense to dump salary. But the Warriors have paid the tax before and even the owner has said he's willing to do so again to MAXIMIZE the last remaining prime years for Steph.

Curry and Thompson are still young enough to go for another five titles after the next season.

6. The Warriors are going to do whatever they can to win. Outside of trading Steph and Klay the roster is open for overhaul if the Warriors felt it would be in their best interest at remaining a title contender.

Of course they will... No other way to "measure the team" in a (completely) new environment.

7. The Warriors don't need the rookie to develop in order for them to win. The Warriors will also have a 17.5M TPE and a FULL MLE to use this off-season.

8. Have you looked into the resources the Warriors have? Have you looked into how much new money the new arena has generated, even in this shit year? Can you imagine how much more money and sponsorships they'll have if they put out a championship caliber product? Answer is: A Lot.

Like all teams, the Warriors need youth to ensure that the new arena will be packed with fans for the next ...century, not for the next season only.

200M, is still 200M whether you can afford it or not, you just don't through it out of the window and condemn the team's future...

EDIT: One more thing, the TPE you can "kiss it goodbye" if they hit the apron, therefore they'll use the TPE to damp salary.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

@buckalis do you know the difference between Kevin Durant and Anthony Davis?

 

[msgkings322]

Because the Warriors ducked the luxury tax this year, it means they remain out of the repeater tax this year as well for next year even if they pay a luxury tax. So there will be no luxury tax penalty for the Warriors in 2020-2021. There will be a luxury tax penalty though in 2022 if the Warriors remain in the tax.

The Warriors still remain hard capped, but with all their salary dumps at the deadline, they were able to shed enough contracts to remain under the tax. They will navigate this by signing a bunch of 10-day contracts for the remainder of the season.

But I think you'll at least get a laugh out of this...Buckalis thinks that what the Warriors should do is to avoid the luxury tax, simply dump salary. In order to do so the Warriors would have to trade pick assets to get someone to take Wiggins. Nevermind that not a lot of teams have flat out cap space to absorb him this upcoming year, that doesn't matter.

So what Buck wants the Warriors to do is sacrifice the last remaining years in Steph/Klay/Draymond's prime, and also trade away our future assets, just so they remain under the tax line. Lacob has also said he's willing to pay the tax "if it makes sense", which as you know with Dan Gilbert is true when an ownership is dedicated to winning. They will spend.

This is beyond obvious, I'm done telling bucky the sky is blue.

 

[shopson67]

Curry and Thompson are still young enough to go for another five titles after the next season.



Of course they will... No other way to "measure the team" in a (completely) new environment.



Like all teams, the Warriors need youth to ensure that the new arena will be packed with fans for the next ...century, not for the next season only.

200M, is still 200M whether you can afford it or not, you just don't through it out of the window and condemn the team's future...

EDIT: One more thing, the TPE you can "kiss it goodbye" if they hit the apron, therefore they'll use the TPE to damp salary.

Explain to me how they will use the TPE to dump salary (assuming that was the misspelling in that sentence, and not damp celery). Trade exceptions are allowances to take IN salary without giving up salary, the actual reverse of what you are suggesting.