Warning: HOT TAKE thread...where Simmons gonna go?

[flyerhawk]

The problem with Ben now is confidence. He clearly has none. His inability to make FTs shattered his confidence, to the point where he wasn't even slamming dunks point blank at the rim and passing instead.

I agree that if he could make 70% of his FTs he would be a serviceable NBA player given all his other attributes, without developing a jump shot. But he'll never be a great player if he can't make FTs, he won't even be playable in the playoffs.

When his FT% was running above 70% during the season he was an absolutely dominant player. As his FT% went down, so did his game.

 

[msgkings322]

My call is to the Pelicans for Ingram. Could also see a player like DeAaron Fox or Wiggins.

Won't be the Warriors, not for Wiggins anyway
Don't need two Draymonds

 

[msgkings322]

I disagree, he is poison at this point.

Not often correct, but never in doubt

 

[DJ]

My call is to the Pelicans for Ingram. Could also see a player like DeAaron Fox or Wiggins.

The Pels aren't trading Ingram.

 

[DJ]

Won't be the Warriors, not for Wiggins anyway
Don't need two Draymonds

This.

 

[trojanfan12]

The problem with Ben isn't his outside shooting. It's his freethrow shooting. The freethrow shooting is probably going to be the biggest hindrance to any long term success for him. If you cannot shoot from the outside, that's one thing. Plenty of successful players in the NBA are not great outside shooters. But they can score in other ways and be aggressive. If you are afraid to shoot from the freethrow line, it negates your willingness to try to score in other facets, like attacking the rim.

^^^All of this^^^

It reminds me of Shaq's free throw struggles, but with one key difference...Shaq still wanted the ball late in games figuring he could score through the foul and missing wouldn't be as bad. Doing that was largely how he ultimately reached a point where, even though he never became a good free throw shooter, as he says..."I hit them when they mattered".

As you say, it's not his inability to shoot from the perimeter that is the problem, it's that he won't shoot at all. The guy is 6'11"...he needs to get his ass on the block, and try to score quick or score through the foul.

Him passing the ball when he had a dunk was one of the most cringe worthy things I've seen on a basketball court. Never thought I'd see an NBA player so afraid to shoot that he'd pass up a dunk attempt.

 

[msgkings322]

^^^All of this^^^

It reminds me of Shaq's free throw struggles, but with one key difference...Shaq still wanted the ball late in games figuring he could score through the foul and missing wouldn't be as bad. Doing that was largely how he ultimately reached a point where, even though he never became a good free throw, as he says..."I hit them when they mattered".

As you say, it's not his inability to shoot from the perimeter that is the problem, it's that he won't shoot at all. The guy is 6'11"...he needs to get his ass on the block, and try to score quick or score through the foul.

Him passing the ball when he had a dunk was one of the most cringe worthy things I've seen on a basketball court. Never thought I'd see an NBA player so afraid to shoot that he'd pass up a dunk attempt.

Do the stats bear that out re Shaq? Was his 4th quarter/OT FT% better than his average?

And the receiver of the pass muffed it because he never considered that he would be getting a pass there

 

[trojanfan12]

Do the stats bear that out re Shaq? Was his 4th quarter/OT FT% better than his average?

And the receiver of the pass muffed it because he never considered that he would be getting a pass there

I've never looked it up to be honest. I know that for a few years, he struggled to the point that benching him late in games was a real discussion and I even remember a couple of defensive switches late in games. I also know that over the last few seasons with the Lakers he got to where he would get a rhythm and hit several in a row if teams tried to hack him too much and that they eventually started using the Hack-A-Shaq a good bit less.

 

[wildturkey]

Have to LOL at the major overreactions here.

3 weeks ago, Ben Simmons was an all star on the best team in the Eastern Conference.

Now people legitimately think he is hot garbage.

If the 6ers do indeed cave and sell him for pennies on the dollar, they might as well blow the whole thing up and sell Embiid too because they are done as contenders.

If Philly does indeed trade him, it should be after he has a chance to restore his value a bit or if the market views Simmons as if the past 3 weeks didn’t happen.

The 6ers might not be able to win with Simmons as their 2nd best player, but they definitely can’t win if they give him away for chump change this off season.

Don’t sell low.

It's not an overreaction, at least not from me. Well, it may be fair to say its an overreaction to people saying he's garbage, but not to people looking to trade him. I was out on the Simmons/Embiid pairing last year and was down to trade him then. Thought they should have went all in on that Simmons/Harden swap, though there's mixed reports on if Tillman Fertitta was gonna trade with Philly because of Morey. I've never liked that Simmons/Embiid fit. Simmons lack of even looking to shoot just doesn't work next to Embiid. It gets exposed every time they get into the playoffs because opposing teams can gameplan Simmons out of the game because of his weaknesses. Only time its worked (ish) is when they had Butler and Redick because they had other scoring options on the floor (and that's why I said at the time it was a giant mistake to pay Harris/Horford instead of a full courtship to get Butler back).

Simmons hasn't changed his game in years. The same flaws are there. Mentally, he's even in a worse spot than he's been. It's not going to work. Only way the Sixers can get better is if they can bring in a 3rd star (like Butler was), but they don't have the tools to do so. So now they're basically stuck as long as they have a Simmons/Embiid pairing. They'll always be a good regular season team with a capped playoff ceiling of never really being title contenders. Embiid is the better player so Simmons is the guy that's got to go. He is an all star and young so there's enough value there to get a pretty good return with players that will be a better fit.

 

[DJ]

Do the stats bear that out re Shaq? Was his 4th quarter/OT FT% better than his average?

And the receiver of the pass muffed it because he never considered that he would be getting a pass there

Yes, Shaq was much better in the 4th quarter.

 

[msgkings322]

Yes, Shaq was much better in the 4th quarter.

Do you have a link? It sounds plausible but also sounds like something people believe that isn't really bourne out in the data

 

[DJ]

Do you have a link? It sounds plausible but also sounds like something people believe that isn't really bourne out in the data

No, I don't.

I just remember watching the games and the opposing team fouling him and him being better than he was the rest of the game.

 

[DJ]

Do you have a link? It sounds plausible but also sounds like something people believe that isn't really bourne out in the data

NBA Random Stat: Clutch Free Throw Shooting from 82games.com

An occasional feature on the 82games.com web site is the random stat -- today's edition looks at NBA player clutch free throw shooting.

www.82games.com

Surprised. He's 12th best in increase but it's not as big an increase as I would have thought.

 

[Sparhawk]

 

[DJ]

That's also just the last 2 minutes, not the entire 4th quarter.

 

[DJ]

Is that Fultz?

 

[RobToxin]

Ben Simmons needs to go to cardiologist and find his heart for the game!

 

[wildturkey]

If you can convince Kyle Lowry to come to Philly on the MLE to chase another ring, this deal could be appealing

NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

NBA trade machine, make player trades

www.espn.com

Lavine is a free agent in 2022. If you're Chicago, do you really want to commit long term money to a Lavine/Vucevic team that has a ceiling of what, a 6 seed? You can get Simmons (probably a pick as well) and have him under contract for longer. And if he figures out how to shoot under your control, you've got a player MUCH better than Lavine will ever be.

For Philly, you're in win now mode. You go all in Lavine (and Lowry), if it doesn't work, you can move on in 2022. If it looks promising and does work, you can lock up Lavine for more years.

I wouldn't do this without Lowry (or some other PG though).

 

[shopson67]

If you can convince Kyle Lowry to come to Philly on the MLE to chase another ring, this deal could be appealing

NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

NBA trade machine, make player trades

www.espn.com

Lavine is a free agent in 2022. If you're Chicago, do you really want to commit long term money to a Lavine/Vucevic team that has a ceiling of what, a 6 seed? You can get Simmons (probably a pick as well) and have him under contract for longer. And if he figures out how to shoot under your control, you've got a player MUCH better than Lavine will ever be.

For Philly, you're in win now mode. You go all in Lavine (and Lowry), if it doesn't work, you can move on in 2022. If it looks promising and does work, you can lock up Lavine for more years.

I wouldn't do this without Lowry (or some other PG though).

I thought Maxey was looking pretty good, but they would need a vet to continue to support his development. Lowry is a good option, but may take too many minutes away from Maxey?

 

[fightinfunbags]

The Pels aren't trading Ingram.

You sure about that? He doesn’t fit with Zion real well.