Game Thread: W 11: Time for Revenge 4:25/1:25 CBS/CTV

[Anointed One]

That's not understanding the situation which is baffling. No timeouts, just spike it. Pete would have been fine with that.

Yeah, it was 1st down so Spiking it, to me, made the most sense at the time - especially since there was an equipment failure which made him unsure what to do...

 

[flyerhawk]

The play calling at the end of the game was baffling and I give Geno credit for getting back out there but yes, I agree moving up if we land top 10 pick but at this point with 6 wins in the bank they'll be more middle to low 20s drafting.

If we lose out then we would be top 10. But that's unlikely and if it did happen then Pete would probably be gone.

 

[Dolemite censored]

Carroll said they wish they would've managed it differently than it was managed...

This is a consistent theme with Carroll. Time for him to retire or be fired.

 

[Dolemite censored]

then Pete would probably be gone.

He should be gone anyway. The game has passed him by. Staying on too long like someone else in politics that won't be mentioned.

 

[MrS]

If we lose out then we would be top 10. But that's unlikely and if it did happen then Pete would probably be gone.

I doubt it, he controls his own destiny we are basically flying without an owner

 

[seattlefan75]

Well if that wasn't one of the most frustrating losses to be up 16-7 with 12 minutes left in the 4th quarter only to lose the lead. Also as everyone mentioned to run the ball on the 2nd down on that last play. They were probably banking on him getting a solid 4-5 yards to make it a 50 yard kick but to try and set myers up for a 55 yard kick was tough.



The defense and their penalties also killed us. I think it was the TD drive LA had where originally it was a 3 and out but it was a pass interference call that kept the drive alive.



Either way I am glad nobody really came on here blaming the loss on Drew Lock

 

[flyerhawk]

Either way I am glad nobody really came on here blaming the loss on Drew Lock

While he wasn't great, it was also a tough situation to come in to.

I blame Pete and Waldron first and foremost. I blame Pete because this team is simply to undisciplined. I blame Shane because it seems like he is incapable of coming up with a counter move when defense adjust to his initial game plan. This team is simply unable to handle heavy pass rushes.

Third I blame our OL which is getting worse and worse each week.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

This team still needs to add some players to be a contender. Starting with the OL, need to improve it and need better depth. Fix that and that helps all the way around as it helps the QB,RBs WRs and defense. Need to upgrade at QB, hard to be successful with a mediocre QB starting and the backup not even being mediocre. Upgrade the depth and develop the young players.
Looks like the Seahawks will have a good draft position next draft as they are about to go against the NFC best teams next 4 games, really wish the Seahawks had not traded away that second round pick for a rent a player.
While I liked what the Seahawks have done the last two drafts, think we all have been in to much of a hurry for the Seahawks to be contenders again. They still need to add to the talent to the roster as they still are trying to get by with jags at some starting positions ( including the QB position) and quality depth is lacking. Hoping they can find the QB of the future next draft, but going to be hard even if this is a better QB draft class ( not sure it's a better class yet) as they will not have a top 5 pick like they did last year so moving up will be so very expensive that likely they have to pray a talent at QB slides for some unexplained reason.
This last lost is frustrating as heck. Tired of having the Rams beating the Seahawks and the Rams aren't even very good this season. They seem to have some kind of voodoo spell on the Seahawks

 

[flyerhawk]

This team still needs to add some players to be a contender. Starting with the OL, need to improve it and need better depth. Fix that and that helps all the way around as it helps the QB,RBs WRs and defense. Need to upgrade at QB, hard to be successful with a mediocre QB starting and the backup not even being mediocre. Upgrade the depth and develop the young players.
Looks like the Seahawks will have a good draft position next draft as they are about to go against the NFC best teams next 4 games, really wish the Seahawks had not traded away that second round pick for a rent a player.
While I liked what the Seahawks have done the last two drafts, think we all have been in to much of a hurry for the Seahawks to be contenders again. They still need to add to the talent to the roster as they still are trying to get by with jags at some starting positions ( including the QB position) and quality depth is lacking. Hoping they can find the QB of the future next draft, but going to be hard even if this is a better QB draft class ( not sure it's a better class yet) as they will not have a top 5 pick like they did last year so moving up will be so very expensive that likely they have to pray a talent at QB slides for some unexplained reason.
This last lost is frustrating as heck. Tired of having the Rams beating the Seahawks and the Rams aren't even very good this season. They seem to have some kind of voodoo spell on the Seahawks

You seem to be really focused on replacing the QB. Which is fine I guess. I would love to get a better QB. The top 2 QBs in this class are going to go in the top 3 of the draft almost certainly. So now we are hoping and praying that we strike gold on some other QB.

But I do think that you are ignoring the obvious problems this team has beyond simply talent. This is a very undisciplined team. Has been for a long while. We have the most penalized team in the league. And we have too many breakdowns in execution.

We didn't lose the game yesterday because of the QB play. We lost because there is a clear plan to beat this team. Bring pressure. Wear down the OL. Neither Lock or Geno had any time in the 2nd half, while our defense barely recorded a pressure in the 2nd half.

8 blown leads this year. Leading the league.

 

[JMR]

Well, another shitball game vs LAR. I've come to expect it against them over the years, so I really can't even say I'm the least bit surprised and not all that disappointed due to low expectations on this matchup. Some of my lingering thoughts:

• I'm not a fire the coach kind of guy, but I think Waldron's tenure jumped the shark yesterday. There is just no way this offense should be this bad on 3rd down and really overall, and it's not as simple as changing the QB (as we saw yesterday). The idea of Shane Waldron bringing the Rams offense to the PNW was great, but it's not really materialized as we hoped despite a pretty good overall unit last year. It's not going anywhere and in some aspects getting worse. The most frustrating part about it is the offense is *littered* with 1st and 2nd round players. All 3 WRs and both RBs. Both starting OTs. Both QBs. A guard or two. I haven't looked it up, but this might be the offense with the most 1st or 2nd rounders in the league. Most of the time we talk about "playcalling" when things don't turn out well, but I think our issue is a bit bigger. After yesterday as a straw that broke the camel's back sort of event, I wouldn't be mad if Pete fired him today. I don't think that's really PC's style, but if the over/under on how many more games Waldron is the OC is set at 7.5, I'm taking the under.
• I also try hard not to complain about the refs all that much because their job is incredibly hard and I actually think they pull it off very well in most cases, I have 2 big problems with yesterday: 1) the no-call on the blatant off-side when we had the ball early 2nd quarter (the dude had his foot right next to the ball when it was snapped), and 2) the ridiculous PI in the ez on Spoon that essentially gave the Rams a TD and to a degree the game. Just awful.
• KW is good, but he dances too much. Especially for a guy with as much power as he has. Sometimes you gotta be satisfied with 3 yards and not risk losing 2, especially on an offense that has such a hard time when it faces anything more than 10 yards to gain on a series. That's one thing I really like about Charbonnet -- just take what is there even if your ypc ends up not being overwhelming.
• The penalties were of course out of hand yesterday and teamed up with putrid 3rd down offense to be the main reasons we lost, but we also have to acknowledge that it's just going to come with the territory of a PC team. He wants them to play aggressively, and the flags come along with that. But yesterday was particularly bad, and there is no excuse for absolute stupidity of Woolen's hands to face on 3rd & 15 or Witherspoon's body slam for an extra 15.
• I can't be too hard on Drew Lock. He was in a tough spot being brought into the game on no notice with no adequate prep during the week or even time to warm up on the sideline, but there's no magic switch to flip by putting him in there. The problems on O are so much bigger. Even if we decided right now he's starting on Thursday (which very well could happen), it's a short week and probably not enough time to set him up for success against a really tough defense on a big stage. But it's either him or a banged up Geno on 3 days rest, so it's not looking good from that aspect.

The worst part about this loss is there's probably now a good chance we are at the start of a 5 game losing streak. We knew these next 4 would be tough either way, but a win yesterday gives us a pretty fair shot at 10 wins and almost assuredly a wildcard. We now have to steal 1 against the Niners, Eagles, or Cowboys, and then win out after that to get to 10. But as disconnected as this team is on offense, I don't think it matters a whole lot.

 

[MrS]

You seem to be really focused on replacing the QB. Which is fine I guess. I would love to get a better QB. The top 2 QBs in this class are going to go in the top 3 of the draft almost certainly. So now we are hoping and praying that we strike gold on some other QB.

But I do think that you are ignoring the obvious problems this team has beyond simply talent. This is a very undisciplined team. Has been for a long while. We have the most penalized team in the league. And we have too many breakdowns in execution.

We didn't lose the game yesterday because of the QB play. We lost because there is a clear plan to beat this team. Bring pressure. Wear down the OL. Neither Lock or Geno had any time in the 2nd half, while our defense barely recorded a pressure in the 2nd half.

8 blown leads this year. Leading the league.

everything you said here is true

however, QB is a problem that needs to be addressed and finding the right one can mask a lot of those other problems.

geno is not a plus player, he is basically as average as it gets. we had opportunities to score TDs and we ended up with FGs which is something that happens far too often. a better QB puts more points on the board and its not 16-14 going into the last two minutes, its 20-14 or 24-14.

I dont see us winning any of the next 4 games, I think they are all going to be humiliating losses and at that point the season is lost and theres no reason to win the last three. just close it out and trade up for a top two QB.

 

[JMR]

everything you said here is true

however, QB is a problem that needs to be addressed and finding the right one can mask a lot of those other problems.

geno is not a plus player, he is basically as average as it gets. we had opportunities to score TDs and we ended up with FGs which is something that happens far too often. a better QB puts more points on the board and its not 16-14 going into the last two minutes, its 20-14 or 24-14.

We have spent a lot of 1st and 2nd round picks on offense to put talent around the QB to the point where we shouldn't need a "plus" player at that position to have a good offense. If we need all those 1st and 2nd round WRs, RBs, and OL, and also a top QB pick, we have some serious problems with the way we are using the talent. That's why I firmly believe this is a systemic issue and not a "just replace the QB" problem.

Think back to the Hasselbeck years. Really good or at least well above average offenses, but we didn't have a top QB. Matt was very good and of course one of the most likeable Hawks ever, but he was a borderline top 10 guy at best. He wasn't close to Favre, Manning, Brady, Brees, or any of the other top QBs of the era. But we put the talent around him to not need him to be great in order to have a high quality offense.

I dont see us winning any of the next 4 games, I think they are all going to be humiliating losses and at that point the season is lost and theres no reason to win the last three. just close it out and trade up for a top two QB.

Very well could lose each of the next 4, and we knew this stretch would be tough, but I don't think that means other games aren't winnable even with as much as we are fighting ourselves on offense. Outside of the division leaders, there isn't a ton of competition in the NFC right now for wildcards. 9 wins will probably do it.

 

[JMR]

I blame Pete and Waldron first and foremost. I blame Pete because this team is simply to undisciplined. I blame Shane because it seems like he is incapable of coming up with a counter move when defense adjust to his initial game plan. This team is simply unable to handle heavy pass rushes.

Remember the "old days" when the offense would sort of spin wheels in the first half while figuring things out and then come out in the 2nd and get it done? We complained about slow starts and not being ready, but I sure miss the days of strong finishes and having confidence that we can adjust to the gameflow and figure out a way to score and win. Seems like a distant memory to me.

And that's why I think Waldron's days are numbered. It's easy to whine about "playcalling" when the O sputters but it's a systemic thing and not just that we are calling the wrong plays at the wrong time. Like you say, we are failing to make any sort of adjustments when the opposing defense does, and we are constantly having an increasingly difficult time moving the ball as the game goes along. It's the opposite of the way it used to be when we complained about 1st half 3 & outs. We went FOURTEEN straight 3rd downs yesterday without converting. I feel like we could have put DeeJay Dallas in at QB and just ran a service academy offense and succeeded on a at least a few.

The offense is broken, and Geno isn't the reason why. Waldron has to go.

 

[flyerhawk]

everything you said here is true

however, QB is a problem that needs to be addressed and finding the right one can mask a lot of those other problems.

geno is not a plus player, he is basically as average as it gets. we had opportunities to score TDs and we ended up with FGs which is something that happens far too often. a better QB puts more points on the board and its not 16-14 going into the last two minutes, its 20-14 or 24-14.

I dont see us winning any of the next 4 games, I think they are all going to be humiliating losses and at that point the season is lost and theres no reason to win the last three. just close it out and trade up for a top two QB.

We all want a better QB. But drafting is a crap shoot. Every pick has, at least, as much chance to fail as succeed. Hoping that your QB pick will hit big is just like buying a lottery ticket.

There were very few plays that I would blame Geno for. The overthrow to DK in the end zone was the clearest. But he simply had no time in the pocket. Neither did Lock. Maybe someone like Mahomes overcomes that but there aren't more than 2 or 3 QBs in the league that can.

Even if we lose out the rest of the season, we still aren't likely to be in a spot to reasonable go after Williams or Maye. Which then means drafting up and going all in that the player we pick will hit. Watching this team 8 straight games sounds pretty awful especially given that we STILL won't likely have a chance at a QB(Bears, Giants, Patriots, Cardinals are all going for a QB as well or at least might be).

 

[flyerhawk]

Remember the "old days" when the offense would sort of spin wheels in the first half while figuring things out and then come out in the 2nd and get it done? We complained about slow starts and not being ready, but I sure miss the days of strong finishes and having confidence that we can adjust to the gameflow and figure out a way to score and win. Seems like a distant memory to me.

And that's why I think Waldron's days are numbered. It's easy to whine about "playcalling" when the O sputters but it's a systemic thing and not just that we are calling the wrong plays at the wrong time. Like you say, we are failing to make any sort of adjustments when the opposing defense does, and we are constantly having an increasingly difficult time moving the ball as the game goes along. It's the opposite of the way it used to be when we complained about 1st half 3 & outs. We went FOURTEEN straight 3rd downs yesterday without converting. I feel like we could have put DeeJay Dallas in at QB and just ran a service academy offense and succeeded on a at least a few.

The offense is broken, and Geno isn't the reason why. Waldron has to go.

But eventually we have to start questioning whether the problem is the coordinators. But if the offense and defense are constantly underperforming, maybe the problem is the system. We keep swapping out both and getting similar results.

The OL looked better to begin the year but definitely has regressed. Not sure why. This seems to be especially true in the 2nd half.

 

[MrS]

Watching this team 8 straight games sounds pretty awful especially given that we STILL won't likely have a chance at a QB(Bears, Giants, Patriots, Cardinals are all going for a QB as well or at least might be).

Best case is the bears have 1 and 2 and we can trade into the 2 spot

Before you say anything just let a guy dream

 

[JMR]

But eventually we have to start questioning whether the problem is the coordinators. But if the offense and defense are constantly underperforming, maybe the problem is the system. We keep swapping out both and getting similar results.

The OL looked better to begin the year but definitely has regressed. Not sure why. This seems to be especially true in the 2nd half.

I don't have much problem with the D. It's not perfect and certainly is capable of some lapses and mistakes, but they are more than good enough and appear to be improving. I can't sit here and say they are underperforming at this point. Two bad mistakes yesterday were costly, but they still only had given up 7 points on the road through 3 quarters. That always has to be good enough.

But the offense is a different story. We are spending 1st and 2nd rounders all over the place there, and it's getting worse. And I don't think that's because the players aren't good or are the wrong ones because they are pretty much all either proven at the NFL level like Lockett & DK or they're younger guys who do well often enough that you know it isn't an accident. We are simply not getting the sum of the parts to add up like they should.

 

[MrS]

But the offense is a different story. We are spending 1st and 2nd rounders all over the place there, and it's getting worse.

I dont disagree with you, we have too many weapons on offense to be putting up 16 points. Coaching is a huge issue, we have not been able to have a consistent offense since carroll has been here. but geno is not helping things, he is part of the problem. We need an upgrade at QB.

Or blow it all up and bring in an offensive HC and a grizzly veteran DC, this seems to be the winning combination these days.

 

[flyerhawk]

I don't have much problem with the D. It's not perfect and certainly is capable of some lapses and mistakes, but they are more than good enough and appear to be improving. I can't sit here and say they are underperforming at this point. Two bad mistakes yesterday were costly, but they still only had given up 7 points on the road through 3 quarters. That always has to be good enough.

But the offense is a different story. We are spending 1st and 2nd rounders all over the place there, and it's getting worse. And I don't think that's because the players aren't good or are the wrong ones because they are pretty much all either proven at the NFL level like Lockett & DK or they're younger guys who do well often enough that you know it isn't an accident. We are simply not getting the sum of the parts to add up like they should.

The defense isn't the problem now. It was the past 2 years. Now the problem is the offense despite being loaded with talent at the skill positions.

 

[JMR]

The defense isn't the problem now. It was the past 2 years. Now the problem is the offense despite being loaded with talent at the skill positions.

Precisely my point. The offense was better last year with arguably less talent. Even in the games Geno is playing well or at least not poorly, it's a struggle. Too many penalties. Too many negative plays. Too much passing with 2nd half leads. At some point, that has to fall at the feet of the person(s) responsible for designing and managing it. I think we are there.