Von Miller vs Robert Ayers

[58crash]

He has won a lot of games .

 

[58crash]

last game ....

 

[randymon]

Ware would be tough to see go. As Cd mentioned his leadership/knowledge alone is invaluable plus he still played well when in. But there`s just to many other young players that are the future. If Ware were to take a rather big paycut to stay, that would be a major miracle/blessing for Denver and us.

 

[iknowftbll]

^ Look, if Elway would ask Peyton Manning to take a paycut, I'm sure he'd ask Ware to do so as well. If Ware feels the Broncos are a contender next year, he may just be willing to so. He's had a banner career, but look where it's been: with the oft mediocre Cowboys. I'm sure Ware would love to have a season where he goes deep into the playoffs. He may get it this year. He may stick around for a discount next year if he feels the Broncos are legitimate contenders again.

 

[Orange Crush77]

Ware is going to have to take a pay cut to be a Bronco next year

what?! He earned his $8.67 MM while in the tub? My definition is different than yours.

lol

 

[Orange Crush77]

I have complete faith in Elway with this stuff. He's been masterful as far as keeping this roster fresh with talent moving forward. He has picked up the business acumen of the NFL like a champ, and I do believe he will build a championship team. This could very well be our year. Ozzy has a grit about him. The kid seems unflappable. He has work to do, but he commands this offense. I just hope Kube allows him to, he's ready

 

[nflbronco]

Problem is if you move on from Miller. It saves you money but, weakens a position that others said, doesn't grow on tree's. losing Miller and possibly Ware that takes a huge bite out of our pass rush position. I trust Elway to make the right decisions in this matter. Unfortunately QB's and Pass Rushers = Huge Contracts nature of the beast.

 

[58crash]

We can rent him also for next year up to us ..

 

[Mingo]

It really depends how Elway and Kubes feel about the guys on that O line and if they can fix some things via FA. If Denver has to give up some quality guys on the other side of ball then they certainly could go heavy D in draft as well.It's going to be interesting from here on out how things transpire for this team.

Based on draft slot - the Olinemen who can help immediately - will likely be gone by late in round #1 - which makes the Oline guys a jumble in rounds 2-5

 

[58crash]

Some of our best OL ever came late on the draft ...We seem to like the 2nd round as RT picks ...

I still say as OL Coach we should be shooting for the best one available and then bring in help to train him as long term .

You need a motivator as OL Coach .. You need a person that will kill you to fail for him .. someone that will not accept were we are as a OL ...That would never give up what we are IMO doing that right now as best we are going to be ..

 

[Duffman]

Miller is the reason Shane Ray and Shaq have a combined 9.5 sacks this year, he frees up other people to make a play with how much attention he demands.

 

[Mingo]

Ayers - that was funny!

 

[58crash]

Ayers - that was funny!

What that his stats are as good as millers and cost a bag od Doritos to the Giants ?

Look I get Miller is better is he a 100mill better ? I say not even close trade him what what you can .

 

[58crash]

Miller is the reason Shane Ray and Shaq have a combined 9.5 sacks this year, he frees up other people to make a play with how much attention he demands.

Then we should not have drafted Shane Ray then ! and to the people that listed this clunker a winner they are fill of whiskey early in the day don't you think

 

[cdumler7]

Then we should not have drafted Shane Ray then ! and to the people that listed this clunker a winner they are fill of whiskey early in the day don't you think

First off there is reason we drafted Shane Ray. Last year our depth at the OLB spot really showed late in the season when Ware had nothing left in the tank. When you throw in there was/still is that this is Ware's last year on the team then the Shane Ray pick makes total sense. Throw in the team could not have known that Barrett would emerge like he has this year. He wasn't even on the 53-man roster last year when we had very little depth at the OLB/DE position. HE worked his tail off this past off season and we are seeing the results of that but the team could not have known that in April when they were drafting. Shane Ray still makes sense as look at our defense this year and part of the reason we are so good is we have such a healthy rotation especially at the OLB spot.

As for Ayers and Miller's stats being similar you are looking at just a couple of stats and making your decision. This would be like me seeing that Matt Ryan is top-5 in yards passing this year so that must mean he is as good as Tom Brady or close to it.

Let me add a few more to your picture here. Von Miller Forced Fumbles and Fumble Recoveries combined he has 7. Robert Ayers 2.

QB Hurries Von Miller 26 Robert Ayers 16.

Throw in just look at the first 5 years of their career. Von Miller 59 sacks to 12 for Robert Ayers. We see a player every year have decent Sack Numbers but not be that great of a pass rusher they just happen to get a sack on a more regular rate when they get to the QB. A hurry or QB Hit can do just as much though as that of a sack yet it rarely shows up when talking top pass rushers. IT is becoming more common to look at those as it does show just how often a player is beating his guy to make a huge impact play.

Is Von Miller worth $100 million to this defense...In my opinion he is. There are maybe 5 guys that have the argument with him as being the top defensive player in the NFL. At such a premium position as pass rusher you just don't let those type of guys walk. When you throw in honestly the pass rush position should be decently cheap this next year even with Von Miller taking his money.

This year the combined total of the 4 pass rushers on the team is $20,513,647. Let's say Von gets that $100 million contract and is making something like $16 million a year. You add in then Barrett who will be cheap maybe another million and Shane Ray at $2.07 million and actually the pass rush position is less next year against the Cap than it is this year.

 

[Mingo]

With Miller the question is - will the next 5 years be as good as the first 5 years. I wish I was up close to the Miller situation - so I'm informed only by reading stuff, but I would not bet Miller will have 5 more years like the last 5. Miller is likely to get a very big number - that is more guaranteed for injury - than for skill decline - and have a stiff morals clause. It will be somewhere on the axis of that question - who is willing to take the greater chance on Miller due to his history - and potential 2nd five year higher rate of injury with guaranteed money? The Broncos will want to get a discount - I'm sure of that.

 

[cdumler7]

With Miller the question is - will the next 5 years be as good as the first 5 years. I wish I was up close to the Miller situation - so I'm informed only by reading stuff, but I would not bet Miller will have 5 more years like the last 5. Miller is likely to get a very big number - that is more guaranteed for injury - than for skill decline - and have a stiff morals clause. It will be somewhere on the axis of that question - who is willing to take the greater chance on Miller due to his history - and potential 2nd five year higher rate of injury with guaranteed money? The Broncos will want to get a discount - I'm sure of that.

I agree they will be looking at all that and there will be some special clauses in his contract that are not for some other top players. At the same time I don't think his production will drop because he gets paid. I mean the guy has already made some major money in his career. Heck he is making more this year than DeMarcus Ware yet he is still out there performing. My biggest worry for him is what happens when Ware is not here to keep him accountable off the field? This is my biggest reason for actually possibly keeping Ware this next year and just work to have Von have a lower cap number year 1. Heck they could go the Justin Houston route and have a $6 million first year cap hit. I'm hoping they go a little higher than that for the 1st year but they don't have to have it take all our cap space.

 

[cdumler7]

Also just finally found the numbers I was looking for. To me when looking at a pass rusher you have to look at the Sacks/QB Hits/Hurries all combined together to get a true picture of how a pass rusher has done.

For Robert Ayers he has 8 sacks/19 QB Hits/16 Hurries this year. Honestly very good numbers and ticks me off a bit that he couldn't do that in Denver.

For Von Miller 10 Sacks/30 QB Hits/26 Hurries. So we are talking 66 pass plays that Von Miller had a major impact on compared to 43 for Robert Ayers. Again very good numbers from Ayers but then again this is one season that he has been able to do this compared to Von Miller having done it for 5 straight. You then include his impact turnover wise as I pointed out earlier and there just is no comparison between these two players.

 

[randymon]

Also just finally found the numbers I was looking for. To me when looking at a pass rusher you have to look at the Sacks/QB Hits/Hurries all combined together to get a true picture of how a pass rusher has done.

For Robert Ayers he has 8 sacks/19 QB Hits/16 Hurries this year. Honestly very good numbers and ticks me off a bit that he couldn't do that in Denver.

For Von Miller 10 Sacks/30 QB Hits/26 Hurries. So we are talking 66 pass plays that Von Miller had a major impact on compared to 43 for Robert Ayers. Again very good numbers from Ayers but then again this is one season that he has been able to do this compared to Von Miller having done it for 5 straight. You then include his impact turnover wise as I pointed out earlier and there just is no comparison between these two players.

Agree times infinity!

 

[Mingo]

Miller's athletic ability is multiple, but will his game experience overcome slowing down a step or two on his speed?