Tyron Smith

[tw1st3d]

other teams have been able to hold on to their studs and still be cap-smart and put competitive teams on the field.

What teams?

Name them

I look around the league and outside of Qb .... Don't see one team HOLDING on to "their studs" and winning shit

 

[scotsman1948]

What teams?

Name them

I look around the league and outside of Qb .... Don't see one team HOLDING on to "their studs" and winning shit

okay i give up. let them walk as soon as their rookie contract runs out

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Pay your QB's, LT's and DE/OLB (pass rusher). Never resign high priced Safety's, TE's, RB's, Guards and especially LBers.

I think the best strategy for your good to very good players is resign them the 3rd year into their 5 year rookie contracts. They get more money early and they get the guaranteed upfront money early too. But they have to understand when they are in their 6th or 7th year and are really underpaid they need to understand that they were overpaid in there 4th and 5th year and also got their big money guaranteed money two years early. That way a team can keep their cap straight. Players do bitch when they are getting underpaid in their 5th, 6th, 7th year and it is a problem.

The reason Philly let Desean walk is cause they had a great draft in 2012 (like Dallas did with SMith/Dez/Demarco all expiring soon). THey are trying to save up enough money and lower their cap hit as much as they can so they can sign Foles, Boykin, Cox, and Kendricks after their 3rd year and hope they dont bitch down the line. I expect Dallas to get Smith done before this season starts. They simply can't let a star 23 year old LT walk. Every team in the league has bad contracts and thats why Philly cut a 1350 yards 10 TD field stretcher. But that Romo contract is really really bad. I just read if they let him go, hypothetically, this year it would be a 50 million cap hit and a 30 million cap hit next year. He's a lock to be with Dallas for two more years at least and its gonna hurt if the get someone like Manziel and he turns out to be a star. Yeah you'd deal with it because there is nothing better then a young star QB but the Romo contract is just insane. Probably the worst contract in all of sports... especially if his back is worse then people know.

 

[tw1st3d]

okay i give up. let them walk as soon as their rookie contract runs out

Dont be an ass .... I wasnt being one


Throw 130 million around ..... I'll look ... read ... and eventually judge

130 million ... 52 players ....

For the love of god and all that is holy .... SHOW ME .... where over paying players on an 8-8 team ..... will help the Cowboys

Teach Me..... PLEASE

 

[Schmoopy1000]

I think it is funny if you go to the extreme of either side of this debate would be wrong. don't give any high priced contracts we will suck, give to many or as some imply give all big contracts we would fail.
I understand completely what Jarntt was saying & agree.
Sometimes taking a step down in quality for a manageable contract & letting the better player go, helps more than paying to much to keep him. (kinda how me & Twist feel about Dez)

I don't think he meant get rid of all star for some scrub to save money.
so getting rid of all players after a rookie contract is up was just silly comment.

 

[UK Cowboy]

What teams?

Name them

I look around the league and outside of Qb .... Don't see one team HOLDING on to "their studs" and winning shit

Ravens. Ozzie Newsome is the best in the business IMO. The reason is, he consistently drafts well, and keeps his own for the most part rather than sign big name FA's. And when it is time to let one stud walk, he only does it after he has drafted another to take his place

 

[tw1st3d]

Ravens. Ozzie Newsome is the best in the business IMO. The reason is, he consistently drafts well, and keeps his own for the most part rather than sign big name FA's. And when it is time to let one stud walk, he only does it after he has drafted another to take his place

Was Ozzie the Gm under the Ravens 1st superbowl?

If so he has 2 Superbowl wins.... in 20 years

If I look for a gold standard .... Steelers ..... Even the years ( which are few) they aren't in the playoffs.... they always contend to be ....

In short ... No I don't think Ozzie is god .... I think he got lucky

 

[jarntt]

Pay your QB's, LT's and DE/OLB (pass rusher). Never resign high priced Safety's, TE's, RB's, Guards and especially LBers.

It always catches my eye when people make generalizations or use words like never and always, because I disagree so strongly. The best think the Dallas Cowboys have done in recent years is find Sean Lee and resigned him. If he stays healthy (you can't use his injuries because it isn't part of your comment) he is one of the most important players they have had in a long time. Also, lets look at TE. For Dallas and NO this is a pretty important position. It's all about how you spend your money in total, not that you do it according to some notion that a person may have devised as "ideal". It turns into the Dan Marino versus Trent Dilfer debate. Why pay a QB if he isn't worth it? Why not pay a Steve Hutchinson in his prime? Ed Reed or Polamulo? I think theories like that are short sighted and eventually lead to failure. It doesn't matter which positions you pay as long as the player is worth the contract and the ones you don't resign are back filled through good drafting and smart use of free agent $'s. of course in an ideal World you have a stud QB and LT and pass rusher on defense. But making the whole stronger than the sum of its parts is a big key to me.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Was Ozzie the Gm under the Ravens 1st superbowl?

If so he has 2 Superbowl wins.... in 20 years

If I look for a gold standard .... Steelers ..... Even the years ( which are few) they aren't in the playoffs.... they always contend to be ....

In short ... No I don't think Ozzie is god .... I think he got lucky

Well, that's one we'll have to disagree on

 

[scotsman1948]

Dont be an ass .... I wasnt being one


Throw 130 million around ..... I'll look ... read ... and eventually judge

130 million ... 52 players ....

For the love of god and all that is holy .... SHOW ME .... where over paying players on an 8-8 team ..... will help the Cowboys

Teach Me..... PLEASE

that was never my point. my point is that there are times when if you want to compete you have to pay for quality. you have to know who is worth paying for and who isn't.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

It always catches my eye when people make generalizations or use words like never and always, because I disagree so strongly. The best think the Dallas Cowboys have done in recent years is find Sean Lee and resigned him. If he stays healthy (you can't use his injuries because it isn't part of your comment) he is one of the most important players they have had in a long time. Also, lets look at TE. For Dallas and NO this is a pretty important position. It's all about how you spend your money in total, not that you do it according to some notion that a person may have devised as "ideal". It turns into the Dan Marino versus Trent Dilfer debate. Why pay a QB if he isn't worth it? Why not pay a Steve Hutchinson in his prime? Ed Reed or Polamulo? I think theories like that are short sighted and eventually lead to failure. It doesn't matter which positions you pay as long as the player is worth the contract and the ones you don't resign are back filled through good drafting and smart use of free agent $'s. of course in an ideal World you have a stud QB and LT and pass rusher on defense. But making the whole stronger than the sum of its parts is a big key to me.

1. I said never sign LB to huge FA deals and I stick to that as long as long its not a blitzing OLB. But Dallas didn't sign Lee as a FA. They renegotiated his rookie deal early which is smart. I dont know the structure of his deal but I think it was close to 50 million which might not be as large as it looks (backloaded?). It was good they locked down a star player and not given him tons of guaranteed money upfront in an UFA deal. But ILB really should never be one of the highest paid players on a team.

2. I didnt say pay a QB if he isn't worth it. But if you have a star you do whatever you have to do to keep him. Same goes for LT, DE, CB.

3. I dont remember any of them being FA in their prime outside of Hutchinson. I didnt say, "Never pay your ILB, S, TE's, Guards... I said never pay them huge UFA deals. I did say to take these star players and lock them up during their rookie deals. Case in point is Jarius Byrd. He is a superstar that should have been resigned years before his rookie contract ended. Buffalo was smart not to give him 9 to 10 million a year and he is the best Safety in the NFL. But Buffalo should have given him nice money 2 or 3 years ago before he hit the FA market. Look at how New Orleans is balking at giving the best TE in the NFL huge money now.

I wasn't dealing in absolutes like you said. I said sign your good players no matter what the position while they are in their rookie contract like Dallas did with Lee. But its going to be really hard shelling out two 70+ million dollar contracts to Dez and T. Smith. Dallas is going to over pay if they want to keep them. Another huge contract nuance is to get all your rookies to sign 5 year deals. That way you can lock them up long term after 3 years at a discounted price and hope they dont bitch down the road.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Also Dallas is at a disadvantage, I think, because of their HUGE popularity and winning tradition. I think teams like sticking it to them a little more and take pleasure stealing their players then they might with other teams. I know Philly really wanted RT Free when he was an UFA to hypothetically make us better AND Dallas worse.

 

[Manster7588]

Also Dallas is at a disadvantage, I think, because of their HUGE popularity and winning tradition. I think teams like sticking it to them a little more and take pleasure stealing their players then they might with other teams. I know Philly really wanted RT Free when he was an UFA to hypothetically make us better AND Dallas worse.

In hindsight I wish the Eagles did steal him.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

In hindsight I wish the Eagles did steal him.

I think Free did well, & he was one of the rare players to take a pay cut to stay. I am cool with Free & his contract last year.

 

[jarntt]

Well you said at the time that resigning Lee was a mistake for the exact same reason you mentioned in the post here, so i'll have to respectfully ask, which is it? Also, what is the difference if you resign your own guy to a big deal or sign someone else's? Still costs the same...

 

[jarntt]

Also Dallas is at a disadvantage, I think, because of their HUGE popularity and winning tradition. I think teams like sticking it to them a little more and take pleasure stealing their players then they might with other teams. I know Philly really wanted RT Free when he was an UFA to hypothetically make us better AND Dallas worse.

If you still want Free you can have him...I'll take Johnson for him...

 

[Manster7588]

I think Free did well, & he was one of the rare players to take a pay cut to stay. I am cool with Free & his contract last year.

Yes he played much better than he did in 2012, but not well enough to be the answer at tackle.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Well you said at the time that resigning Lee was a mistake for the exact same reason you mentioned in the post here, so i'll have to respectfully ask, which is it? Also, what is the difference if you resign your own guy to a big deal or sign someone else's? Still costs the same...

I 100% did say that. When I looked at the numbers I said close to 50 million for an ILB who is hurt a lot was really a waste. But I forgot who it was, maybe you, but someone said the contract is really back loaded and set up in a way that if they cut him they wont take a huge cap hit. All I did was look at the large amount but was ignorant of how the contract was structured. So at first I was wrong because all I thought was "50 million for an ILB???"

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Well you said at the time that resigning Lee was a mistake for the exact same reason you mentioned in the post here, so i'll have to respectfully ask, which is it? Also, what is the difference if you resign your own guy to a big deal or sign someone else's? Still costs the same...

It doesnt cost the same. Im completely making these number up out of thin air. Lets say, hypothetically, Dez makes 2 million a year during his 5 year rookie contract. After Dez completes his 3rd year Jerry Jones says, "I will renegotiate you're contract because you're only making 2 million a year. Ill give you 35 million with 15 million upfront and guaranteed, over 5 years. You get 15 million today and 4 million every year for 5 years. Instead of you making 2 million this year, you're going to make 19 million (15 in guarenteed bonus and 4 in salary). In this scenario Dez gets a huge lump sum and 23 million for 2 years instead of 4 million over 2 years that was owed in Dez's rookie contract. After 2 years Dez will be making only 4 million a year for the next 3 years. But Jerry didnt do that. Now at the end of this year Dez is going to be an UFA and get 20 to 25 upfront and 75 million total for 6 or 7 years (maybe more). That is a shit load more then he would have received if you rewarded him early.

So, again, what Im trying to say is dont get involved in HUGE UFA contracts with TE's, ILB, Guards, Safetys etc. If you have a star at those position like Dallas has at ILB and TE, redo their rookie contracts early. The star gets the large bonus early but it saves the team shit tons of cash if that star doesnt hit the UFA market where other teams can drive the price up in to the stratosphere. Make sense? Or are you just battling every thing I say with out really comprehending my point just to argue?

 

[jarntt]

I think Free did well, & he was one of the rare players to take a pay cut to stay. I am cool with Free & his contract last year.

Free was great early on last year. Later in the year he wasn't quite as good. He certainly earned his contract last year and is reasonable again this year, but then it goes up again. We still need to upgrade the spot long term and RG as well, but it isn't a huge need that we must fill, more a place to upgrade if it presents itself. IMO we should be upgrading one of the two spots this year and the other next year. Only so many spots to upgrade in one offseason. If we grab a guy like Lewan we let Free and MB fight for the spot at RG. If we get a guy like Martin maybe we start him at Guard and then move him to Tackle the next year. If we don't use a draft pick on OL we need to sign someone because the Guard depth is very weak right now. I'm hesitant to rely on Waters coming back even though I would be happy to have him back for one more year.