Tyron Smith

[jarntt]

we have roughly 6.4 million

Pretty sure we have more than that. Is that before Miles?

 

[snookdad]

Wel if Romo is released after 2016 and we get a rookie qb that solves a great deal of the cap problem.

 

[snookdad]

think that is exactly Twists point. Seattle & SF win in the trenches. (both sides of the ball)
So if it was a choose one or the other, work on your line.

Thats not all true this year our OL would have held it's own against most other OL. Seattle one because they're a great organization. Not only are there line good but so are the LB,s DB's Coaches, the GM, the home field, QB play RB etc. Take their LB's and their DB's out of the equation do they still win the SB....not likely. There just a better organization right now.

 

[snookdad]

Free played well last year could he be up graded of coarse. Seattle won in the draft over the coarse of about 4 yrs lets see what happens when it's time to play these players their market value's. Seattle will then have some hard cuts to make and will likely return to the pack.

 

[tw1st3d]

Free played well last year could he be up graded of coarse. Seattle won in the draft over the coarse of about 4 yrs lets see what happens when it's time to play these players their market value's. Seattle will then have some hard cuts to make and will likely return to the pack.

I'm just hooked on how I think a team should be built. O-line - D-line -Rb- Lbers in that order. From the inside out.

A great O-line helps every running back... even if he isn't a superstar.
Running game helps every Qb ( IE Trent Dilfer)
D-line Helps everything on the defense.
Lbers back up both the D-line in the running game and the Dbs in the passing game. Good Lbers stop the run and force the pass so the D-line can pin their ears back.

A Wr without a good O-line .... doesn't have time to get open or to run his route. Gets lucky once in awhile and makes a WOW play.
A Qb without a line gets killed
ALL Dbs ..... can't cover forever ... D-line sucks ... suck will they.

We are an 8-8 football team. FOR THREE STRAIGHT YEARS The only player we have right now that no matter what I dont want gone ..... Smith. That's pure stud and should be here for 12 more years barring injury

 

[tw1st3d]

What about the major paycut he took?

That was mainly for last year.

He is costing us 6.5 this year ( would cost 7 to cut him)

will cost us 11 million next year (cost 3.9 to cut)

Which is what gives credibility to someone predicting OT in the 1st round of the draft.

 

[tw1st3d]

Pretty sure we have more than that. Is that before Miles?

Austin's money doesn't come into play until June 1st.

Can't be used before then

 

[jarntt]

Right, but you mentioned the $6.4 needed to cover the draft picks. Miles money likely will do that. Also, the talk was about covering restructures that can happen after Miles is off the books.

 

[tw1st3d]

Right, but you mentioned the $6.4 needed to cover the draft picks. Miles money likely will do that. Also, the talk was about covering restructures that can happen after Miles is off the books.

I dont want any more restructures

That is for teams CLOSE to winning a Superbowl. We gotta win the division and a playoff game before I look that far ahead.

 

[snookdad]

I'm just hooked on how I think a team should be built. O-line - D-line -Rb- Lbers in that order. From the inside out.

A great O-line helps every running back... even if he isn't a superstar.
Running game helps every Qb ( IE Trent Dilfer)
D-line Helps everything on the defense.
Lbers back up both the D-line in the running game and the Dbs in the passing game. Good Lbers stop the run and force the pass so the D-line can pin their ears back.

A Wr without a good O-line .... doesn't have time to get open or to run his route. Gets lucky once in awhile and makes a WOW play.
A Qb without a line gets killed
ALL Dbs ..... can't cover forever ... D-line sucks ... suck will they.

We are an 8-8 football team. FOR THREE STRAIGHT YEARS The only player we have right now that no matter what I dont want gone ..... Smith. That's pure stud and should be here for 12 more years barring injury

Twist I believe these things to not as black in white as you do maybe, but I certainly agree with the over all concept. It's not a fair comparison you guys make (cowboys vs Seahawksthough imo. I have the save respect for Dez that you have for Sammy Though and unlike Sammy Dez has proven he can do it on the pro level. The one thing we both agree on is we're sick of losing.

 

[jarntt]

I dont want any more restructures

That is for teams CLOSE to winning a Superbowl. We gotta win the division and a playoff game before I look that far ahead.

Sorry not restructures. Meant to say discussion was about using the savings to start the Dez and Smith contracts. I think Dez gets his deal at some point this season. Smith as I said can wait a year IMO.

 

[tw1st3d]

Twist I believe these things to not as black in white as you do maybe, but I certainly agree with the over all concept. It's not a fair comparison you guys make (cowboys vs Seahawksthough imo. I have the save respect for Dez that you have for Sammy Though and unlike Sammy Dez has proven he can do it on the pro level. The one thing we both agree on is we're sick of losing.

The whole love fest for Sammy has one key point.

Rookie contract vs 10-15 million per year.

 

[jarntt]

The whole love fest for Sammy has one key point.

Rookie contract vs 10-15 million per year.

That is one of the keys that many seem to forget. How much you pay a guy is very, very important to whether he helps your team or not unless you have a ton of cap space you aren't using. In a cap world you are often better off with a lesser player if the contract value is significantly different. One of the reason guys like Wilson and Kap are so good for their teams is that they are making peanuts and allow you to spend elsewhere. Pay them $20M per year and now they aren't so special and you are no longer are able to put all the parts around them and thus they may not play as well. In a cap world, every million you give a guy is a million you can't give to someone else. Even a guy like T. Smith is one of the best values in the league, but if he wants $15M per year you need to let him go and spend your money on a guy that is not as good, but cheaper.

 

[tw1st3d]

Even a guy like T. Smith is one of the best values in the league, but if he wants $15M per year you need to let him go and spend your money on a guy that is not as good, but cheaper.

Only part I disagree with ........

And here's why........ The guy that replaces Tony. whoever that might be. Is going to need his backside protected while he adjust to NFL speed.

I'd pay Smith and wouldn't think twice.

 

[jarntt]

I'd pay Smith and wouldn't think twice.

Me too...just not $15M. But that wasn't the point. Change it to $20M if need be.

 

[scotsman1948]

That is one of the keys that many seem to forget. How much you pay a guy is very, very important to whether he helps your team or not unless you have a ton of cap space you aren't using. In a cap world you are often better off with a lesser player if the contract value is significantly different. One of the reason guys like Wilson and Kap are so good for their teams is that they are making peanuts and allow you to spend elsewhere. Pay them $20M per year and now they aren't so special and you are no longer are able to put all the parts around them and thus they may not play as well. In a cap world, every million you give a guy is a million you can't give to someone else. Even a guy like T. Smith is one of the best values in the league, but if he wants $15M per year you need to let him go and spend your money on a guy that is not as good, but cheaper.

and that is why the Cowboys never be any good if you let a very good player walk and settle for someone else just because he cheaper. he's cheaper because he isn't any good

 

[tw1st3d]

and that is why the Cowboys never be any good if you let a very good player walk and settle for someone else just because he cheaper. he's cheaper because he isn't any good

That's kinda a contradiction though...... Cause that's what we have been doing for almost 20 years.

Over paying vets rather than let them walk.

Of all the positions on the field Left Tackle to me is the only one you over pay and then alot of things have to be considered. Age, health, and is he a top 5 Left tackle. Smith IS. I give him a 10 year contract and never look back. ( Risky only because of injury or possible future holdout if near the end of the 10 years he thinks he is under paid)
But with the cap increasing spread out of 10 years .... you could possibly get Smith for what seasms a bit cheap at first but looks crazy expensive near the end....... which wont be with the cap increase. Atleast that's the way I would try to do it.

Woudn't do it with Dbs .... what Revis cost ... and what Sherman WILL cost .... you can pay 2 quality starters

I think Romo is over payed ..... Cutler too but that seems to be the going rate for Qbs now..... don't like it ... but I guess we should all get used to it.

Wouldn't pay a receiver top dollar ..... None of them .... top 10 in the league receivers make (vurrently) between 12-17 million a season. That's 3 VERY SOLID offensive linemen. two defensive linemen or both safeties .... or two pro bowl linebackers ....

Rb has lost value in the NFL .... so no Rb would I give top dollar to either.
Vikes have won nothing with AP
Titians won nothing with CJ
Jags won nothing with Jones-Drew
Eagles have won nothing with McCoy
ect.

To me it all comes down to how close you actually are. 8-8 you don't pay a Cb the kinda money we did Carr. The kinda money Dez will ask for.

And ofc Romo is over paid but he was restructured so much we really didn't have a choice but to either give him that contract or release him .... which would haave sent us into flat out pure rebuild mode right that second

 

[scotsman1948]

That's kinda a contradiction though...... Cause that's what we have been doing for almost 20 years.

Over paying vets rather than let them walk.

Of all the positions on the field Left Tackle to me is the only one you over pay and then alot of things have to be considered. Age, health, and is he a top 5 Left tackle. Smith IS. I give him a 10 year contract and never look back. ( Risky only because of injury or possible future holdout if near the end of the 10 years he thinks he is under paid)
But with the cap increasing spread out of 10 years .... you could possibly get Smith for what seasms a bit cheap at first but looks crazy expensive near the end....... which wont be with the cap increase. Atleast that's the way I would try to do it.

Woudn't do it with Dbs .... what Revis cost ... and what Sherman WILL cost .... you can pay 2 quality starters

I think Romo is over payed ..... Cutler too but that seems to be the going rate for Qbs now..... don't like it ... but I guess we should all get used to it.

Wouldn't pay a receiver top dollar ..... None of them .... top 10 in the league receivers make (vurrently) between 12-17 million a season. That's 3 VERY SOLID offensive linemen. two defensive linemen or both safeties .... or two pro bowl linebackers ....

Rb has lost value in the NFL .... so no Rb would I give top dollar to either.
Vikes have won nothing with AP
Titians won nothing with CJ
Jags won nothing with Jones-Drew
Eagles have won nothing with McCoy
ect.

To me it all comes down to how close you actually are. 8-8 you don't pay a Cb the kinda money we did Carr. The kinda money Dez will ask for.

And ofc Romo is over paid but he was restructured so much we really didn't have a choice but to either give him that contract or release him .... which would haave sent us into flat out pure rebuild mode right that second

you pay for quality. problem has been JJ has a bad habit of overpaying for 5-8 average players for every quality player he signs.

 

[jarntt]

and that is why the Cowboys never be any good if you let a very good player walk and settle for someone else just because he cheaper. he's cheaper because he isn't any good

First off your way is what we've done. how has it worked out? Anyway, i don't know how You got that out of what I wrote. Heck, the way you phrase it sure does make it sound bad..of course if you looked at what I said and meant and didn't twist it, you may agree a little more. Im not talking about great player versus shitty player. I'm talking about having very expensive players and no depth and players perhaps just a notch below, but filling out the roster properly. Here is the point. It is a salary cap world. There are only so many $'s to go around. A few years ago we probably pay Hatcher more than Washington did to keep him. Today, we smartened up a little and got what could very well be a better player, but certainly is a better contract. I'm much happier with the younger Melton and his contract than I would be with Hatcher and his contract.

 

[scotsman1948]

First off your way is what we've done. how has it worked out? Anyway, i don't know how You got that out of what I wrote. Heck, the way you phrase it sure does make it sound bad..of course if you looked at what I said and meant and didn't twist it, you may agree a little more. Im not talking about great player versus shitty player. I'm talking about having very expensive players and no depth and players perhaps just a notch below, but filling out the roster properly. Here is the point. It is a salary cap world. There are only so many $'s to go around. A few years ago we probably pay Hatcher more than Washington did to keep him. Today, we smartened up a little and got what could very well be a better player, but certainly is a better contract. I'm much happier with the younger Melton and his contract than I would be with Hatcher and his contract.

oh i see exactly what you're saying but our biggest problem has always been that JJ hands out these ridiculous contracts which has been our downfall. other teams have been able to hold on to their studs and still be cap-smart and put competitive teams on the field.