Training Camp '12

[MHSL82]

We long ago moved from the "what ifs" with Alex and onto the "we'll sees". There is nothing to "put to rest", the argument about Alex Smith ended a long time ago.

Will any ascension into the ranks of the "elite" or even the "very good" suddenly convict those whom wanted him gone 1+ years ago as being wrong? Oh hell no. The only thing left to discover is if those who sheepishly hedged their criticism with some form of confidence are going to get lucky - not "right" - lucky.

At this point, excuses are the litmus test of those who are delusional Smith supporters as Alex has been for a long time evaluated on what he can and cannot do outside of ANY excuses.

I agree, there is nothing to be put to rest. We agree on that. In fact, I think we agree on the whole thing. I can't wait for the we'll sees to be over.

I just feel this is a big year to shut some people up from both sides (most, not all, of course). I know people will always talk about potential, excuses, contextual stuff, but it seems that this year will take away the "he never had the same good offensive system for two years in a row" or "the lockout limited the plays and the shots downfield," etc. The supporting cast argument, the oline (hopefully), even the injured shoulder reason is gone. Some, if not most, have evaluated him beyond the excuses, like you said, but there is a significant number of people who don't consider that stuff or dismiss them too easily. Those factors had an effect on the results, not on the player himself. After this year, their arguments are more strained.

There will be the delusionals, as you said, who will find some other reason, but I hear the offensive system comment by reasonable people. After this year, reasonable people can't argue that. Reasonable people have said Alex cannot play in the NFL. If he does well this year, reasonable people cannot say that. I think naturally, the more any player plays, the more clear things are to people. Even Patrick Willis, nothing he does now will take away how great he's been for us, but the way he finishes his career will help a bit in placing him with the greats.

I guess I'm talking more about the public at large than my opinion. As much as I have defended Smith, I'm looking forward to not feeling the need to do so. Obviously, there is no actual need to defend him like I would any Niner I felt was so focused on negatively at times, I willingly do so, but this year will take care of much of that. (Yes, the negativity and focus was warranted, but to me, so was context. I tried to distinquish context/factors from excuses, though those sometimes are a mixed bag. I'm obviously not perfect.)

 

[vvoland]

Well, I think it has already been shown that Smith can only be lifted up by a good supporting cast instead of holding his own with average talent. I feel like he was extremely handicapped by Singletary's vision of offense, but all of the other years he has been pretty unspectacular except for 2009 when VD had his career year... being lifted by his teammates.

If the team is lucky enough to keep Moss, Manningham and VD healthy I think we'll see a really good statistical year from Smith.. at least 25 TDs. I also think he'll frustrate us by leaving at least 5 or 6 TDs on the field throughout the season when he overthrows Moss and Manningham when they get behind the secondary.

But yeah, I don't think Smith is ever going to be elite because he isn't consistently good... although it'll be really interesting to see if Harbaugh can build Smith up even more. That'd be crazy as hell if he went from bust under Nolan and Singletary to one of the better QBs in the league under Harbaugh... man, that'd turn Harbs into a freakin legend.

this is what kills me when discussing smith. having lived in boston for 10 years, i watched a lot of brady, brees, peyton, et al. every single qb leaves 5 -6 TDs in a normal season on the field by over/under throwing wide open receivers. some, like stafford, have players like megatron that cover up a lot of those throws. brady had that with moss/welker during their record setting year. peyton had wayne/harrison/clark. brees had graham/colston/meachem. rodgers has finley/nelson/jennings. eli had cruz/manningham/nicks. all those seasons, record breaking or otherwise, even the most elite qbs leave TDs on the field by making mistakes, not seeing a route develop, etc. yes, brees makes them less often. so does brady.. those mistakes aren't what makes smith 'not elite'

his biggest obstacles, as far as my humble opinion goes, is a lack of weapons, single digit offensive coaching IQs, and confidence. all three are related and as of this off-season, all three have disappeared. i'll be verrrry verrry curious to see what he can do with a real OC, some decent weapons at WR, and more confidence in the players that are supposed to help him make plays. after all, he can't throw and catch at the same time. his best weapon at WR has been crabs... far and away. i'll wager my paychecks for life that he wouldn't start for any of the QBs i mentioned above... maybe DET. he certainly wouldn't be a no 1 WR for 90% of the league's teams.

the encouraging thing for me is that i've seen smith make huge plays when he had to. the shootout with the saints last year is one example.. as is the philly game early on in the season. he had a lot of big 2nd halves in years past when we were down multiple TDs and we had no choice but to throw it around. he rarely had the talent to actually lead the team back. he often forced throws to players unable to make those plays [other than vD] and that hurt his confidence; in turn, hurting his ability to make/attempt those players in later games/years. i think he has a two year window, at best, to make his case as a legit, top 10-15 QB in the league. in fact, i'd argue he's top 15 right now and has a very good chance to push himself into the top 7-8 with another jump this year.

the best part of all of this is.... we have an actual game in 5 days. 5 DAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bemular]

I agree, there is nothing to be put to rest. We agree on that. In fact, I think we agree on the whole thing. I can't wait for the we'll sees to be over.

I just feel this is a big year to shut some people up from both sides (most, not all, of course). I know people will always talk about potential, excuses, contextual stuff, but it seems that this year will take away the "he never had the same good offensive system for two years in a row" or "the lockout limited the plays and the shots downfield," etc. The supporting cast argument, the oline (hopefully), even the injured shoulder reason is gone. Some, if not most, have evaluated him beyond the excuses, like you said, but there is a significant number of people who don't consider that stuff or dismiss them too easily. Those factors had an effect on the results, not on the player himself. After this year, their arguments are more strained.

There will be the delusionals, as you said, who will find some other reason, but I hear the offensive system comment by reasonable people. After this year, reasonable people can't argue that. Reasonable people have said Alex cannot play in the NFL. If he does well this year, reasonable people cannot say that. I think naturally, the more any player plays, the more clear things are to people. Even Patrick Willis, nothing he does now will take away how great he's been for us, but the way he finishes his career will help a bit in placing him with the greats.

I guess I'm talking more about the public at large than my opinion. As much as I have defended Smith, I'm looking forward to not feeling the need to do so. Obviously, there is no actual need to defend him like I would any Niner I felt was so focused on negatively at times, I willingly do so, but this year will take care of much of that. (Yes, the negativity and focus was warranted, but to me, so was context. I tried to distinquish context/factors from excuses, though those sometimes are a mixed bag. I'm obviously not perfect.)

See therein lies the humor of it all - all those "contextual" based defenses of Alex Smith, no longer make any difference at all.

At this point Alex has gone from being a wonderfully horrible to a remarkably average NFL QB. So what is there to defend?

 

[MHSL82]

See therein lies the humor of it all - all those "contextual" based defenses of Alex Smith, no longer make any difference at all.

At this point Alex has gone from being a wonderfully horrible to a remarkably average NFL QB. So what is there to defend?

Nothing any more. I defend mostly for the overly critical, not the reasonable ones. Everyone who has been reasonable from start to finish, I converse with as a discussion of random points. To those like Cazic, that are no longer here, I defend him. All reasonable claims to defend against are lacking.

I know everyone has a ceiling and Alex is who he is. Certain things don't and won't change. I choose not to label where that ceiling is, but I understand most people's claims to where it is. It's a choice because I see no point because what do I know. I watch for entertainment. Having said that, there are some things that if happened would surprise me, both outlining my "ceiling" and "floor" on him.

I suppose, to play devil's advocate, to defend why he was wonderfully horrible and why he could become better than a remarkably average NFL QB? That's why vvoland is here, right?

 

[CalamityX11]

Bring it on preseason!!!! bring it onnnnnnn

 

[Bemular]

At this point Alex has gone from being a wonderfully horrible to a remarkably average NFL QB. So what is there to defend?

Nothing any more.

I agree!

 

[MHSL82]

I agree!

Yes!

 

[threelittleturds]

this is what kills me when discussing smith. having lived in boston for 10 years, i watched a lot of brady, brees, peyton, et al. every single qb leaves 5 -6 TDs in a normal season on the field by over/under throwing wide open receivers. some, like stafford, have players like megatron that cover up a lot of those throws. brady had that with moss/welker during their record setting year. peyton had wayne/harrison/clark. brees had graham/colston/meachem. rodgers has finley/nelson/jennings. eli had cruz/manningham/nicks. all those seasons, record breaking or otherwise, even the most elite qbs leave TDs on the field by making mistakes, not seeing a route develop, etc. yes, brees makes them less often. so does brady.. those mistakes aren't what makes smith 'not elite'

his biggest obstacles, as far as my humble opinion goes, is a lack of weapons, single digit offensive coaching IQs, and confidence. all three are related and as of this off-season, all three have disappeared. i'll be verrrry verrry curious to see what he can do with a real OC, some decent weapons at WR, and more confidence in the players that are supposed to help him make plays. after all, he can't throw and catch at the same time. his best weapon at WR has been crabs... far and away. i'll wager my paychecks for life that he wouldn't start for any of the QBs i mentioned above... maybe DET. he certainly wouldn't be a no 1 WR for 90% of the league's teams.

the encouraging thing for me is that i've seen smith make huge plays when he had to. the shootout with the saints last year is one example.. as is the philly game early on in the season. he had a lot of big 2nd halves in years past when we were down multiple TDs and we had no choice but to throw it around. he rarely had the talent to actually lead the team back. he often forced throws to players unable to make those plays [other than vD] and that hurt his confidence; in turn, hurting his ability to make/attempt those players in later games/years. i think he has a two year window, at best, to make his case as a legit, top 10-15 QB in the league. in fact, i'd argue he's top 15 right now and has a very good chance to push himself into the top 7-8 with another jump this year.

the best part of all of this is.... we have an actual game in 5 days. 5 DAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hear you... but Brady and Brees are the best QBs the Patriots and Saints have ever had so their mistakes are overlooked. Where Smith has the unenviable task of trying to live up to Joe Montana and how we see Joe through glasses shaded with perfection. Even Steve Young was crucified by the fans and media for every little mistake or misstep he had on the field until he won in 1994. So as unfair as it is, Smith's 5 or 6 TDs from overthrowing WRs will draw more focus because of how high the bar is in San Francisco.

Anyway, I only brought that up because I sense that is what will keep Alex from ever getting more than 30 TDs... even with a great coaching staff and a lot of talented WRs/TEs. Of course I hope and would love it if he could minimize those to maybe 1 or 2... but the reports from training camp are the same as always where he is overthrowing Moss and Manningham when they beat coverage. I'm not trying to be a debbie-downer or a critical cazic... I'm just accepting that Smith is going to leave a handful of disappointing TDs on the field and preparing myself so I don't cuss him out when he does it....

Unless..... he does it against the Packers... then I'll do this to Alex

 

[xJuicex]

Crabtree back at practice.

Crabtree returns to practice field

 

[CalamityX11]

Oh wow, Crabtree has been here 3 years already... damn time flies.

 

[CalamityX11]

During practices, Kaepernick has seemingly been reluctant to throw the ball. His accuracy has been inconsistent. And he has seemed much more comfortable running with the football.

I'm a bit worried about this little response from MM. I mean, I do enjoy a QB with legs but the deep throws and accuracy is something we need more in our QB... So this isn't a good thing for me for Prime.

 

[xJuicex]

Matt Maiocco ‏@MaioccoCSN
Crabtree in football pants and brought pads to practice for first time since July 27. But he's working with strength and conditioning coach.

 

[Bemular]

Crabtree back at practice.

Crabtree returns to practice field

Excellent news! I think the first two people he should become reacquainted with are Donte Whitner and Dashon Goldson - Repeatedly!

 

[Jikkle]

I'm a bit worried about this little response from MM. I mean, I do enjoy a QB with legs but the deep throws and accuracy is something we need more in our QB... So this isn't a good thing for me for Prime.

It's not a concern of mine yet since we drafted him raw and in need of some refinement.

Not to mention this is really his first full offseason and he was one of the guys I thought the lockout really hurt last season since he needed as much time with the coaches as possible.

 

[ChrisPozz]

49ers.com | Ray McDonald Comes Into His Own

 

[ChrisPozz]

49ers Blog and Q&A: Fangio expects more sacks from Brooks. So does Brooks

In previous offseasons, the one-time University of Virginia star, who was booted off the team as a junior, would return to his hometown of Woodbridge, Va. When he'd return to Santa Clara in the spring, he'd be in less than tip-top shape.

This year, Brooks hung around Santa Clara all offseason. Not only that, he fell in with the core group of 49ers workout warriors - Justin Smith, Ray McDonald and Parys Haralson chief among them - who would show up every day to train and lift weights. Brooks even augmented that routine by buying a membership at the local 24-Hour Fitness.

"I'd go there and work out for like an hour. Do cardio, do sit-ups and stuff like that," he said. "I took cycling class. I did yoga, pilates and all of that stuff. ... It was a different experience. Just riding a bike for an hour. It hurt my butt."

 

[ChrisPozz]

Mario Manningham Fits Right In

49ers.com | Tarell Brown?s Patience Pays Off

 

[ChrisPozz]

San Francisco 49ers – Niner Insider Blog – SFGate.com Film study: Alex Smith’s story is a tearjerker

 

[ChrisPozz]

Top five performers: Week One - Inside the 49ers

 

[ChrisPozz]

49ers Blog and Q&A: Five observations from 49ers training camp