Trading Lincecum?

[msgkings322]

That has been discussed, trying to figure out who gets moved to make room. I don't think anyone on the Rangers boards have come up with a good solution. I'm pretty sure that Elvis will continue to bulk up and become a better hitter. He is still stupid young as well. Some have said that Ian will be moved to a new position or traded, and Elvis or Profar will be moved to 2B. Not really sure.


It is a great problem to have, but Profar has to keep getting better. Three years ago we had a ton of prospect catchers that everyone wanted. Salty and Teagarden were both top prospects and both turned out to suck. Then we had a logjam at 1B with Smoak and Davis. Turns out Smoak was traded (and doesn't look to be anything special) and Davis was a K machine and was traded as well. So...two years from now Profar may be a dud and we need Ian and Elvis. So goes the joys of prospects

This fordman dude is solid. Rep for being a quality poster following another team.

 

[tzill]

More MLB-ready, bigger upside or both?

Upside...the kid is 18 and won't be up until 13/14. But good grief is he a prospect! Hits for power, average is coming along, can pick it at SS, more BBs than Ks, base stealer....AND he's got a ML caliber arm, so if he can't quite make it as a hitter, he can relieve.

If I can get my Hebrew homie to play AS 2b for the next five years, pick up the next Johan Santana to pair with Crick in our 2013/14 rotation, and add Profar....I'd reluctantly give up Matty ballgame. Would hate to do it, but I'd make the trade.

2013 rotation: Timmy/Bum/Song/Perez/Crick
Batting Order:
Brown CF
Kinsler 2B
Beltran LF
Posey C
Panda 3B
Belt 1B
Nate RF
Panik SS

Panik moves to 2b when Profar comes up.

 

[tzill]

That is just stupid. Granted you could ask for it and it would be a legit ask for someone of Cain or Linc's ability, but Texas in no way would trade their MLB 2B AND his replacement. A top tier MLB 2B and the #1 and #2 of one of the top minor systems?

You can always ask, but that wouldn't happen. Martin/Kins/Perez maybe. Then Tex could either put Jurickson at 2B or move Elvis over, Martin is a stud but we have a good OF already, and Perez would be replaced by whomever we got in Cain or Linc. Gotta give good to get good. Just Kins and Profar is not doable.

Then I wouldn't make the deal. That's how much I value Cain. If Texas wants him, they would have to give up Kinsler/Perez/Profar. If not, we'll compete with what we have.

Loves me some Matt Cain.

 

[tzill]

OH yeah I know, that is why I added the give good to get good. I know that you can't trade crap for Cain.

My only point is that Texas wouldn't trade the current allstar caliber guy as well as his replacement. That would create a major hole that a pitcher can't fill. No use creating two holes only to backfill one.

But they wouldn't be creating "two" holes. They'd be creating one -- 2b. They'd fix (arguably) a bigger one -- Ace. I don't think they'd do it either, but I wouldn't trade Cain for less. He's too good and too durable.

 

[SFGRTB]

Upside...the kid is 18 and won't be up until 13/14. But good grief is he a prospect! Hits for power, average is coming along, can pick it at SS, more BBs than Ks, base stealer....AND he's got a ML caliber arm, so if he can't quite make it as a hitter, he can relieve.

If I can get my Hebrew homie to play AS 2b for the next five years, pick up the next Johan Santana to pair with Crick in our 2013/14 rotation, and add Profar....I'd reluctantly give up Matty ballgame. Would hate to do it, but I'd make the trade.

2013 rotation: Timmy/Bum/Song/Perez/Crick
Batting Order:
Brown CF
Kinsler 2B
Beltran LF
Posey C
Panda 3B
Belt 1B
Nate RF
Panik SS

Panik moves to 2b when Profar comes up.

Where does Kins move if he's here the next 5 years?

 

[fordman84]

But they wouldn't be creating "two" holes. They'd be creating one -- 2b. They'd fix (arguably) a bigger one -- Ace. I don't think they'd do it either, but I wouldn't trade Cain for less. He's too good and too durable.

True on all accounts, but stuff like this is what the offseason is all about...crazy trades And I meant to imply that we would be creating one hole. We would be creating two, and filling one...thus creating a total of one new hole. Not a great trade when you have more problems than you started with.

My view is that the gap between Ian+Profar until the next 2B caliber guy in our system is much greater than the gap between Cain and our current rotation. Now don't get me wrong, Cain is MUCH better than anyone that we have seen anything out of on the Ranger rotation. I am just saying the falloff at second would be greater than what we would gain from Cain. I'd love to have Cain, and I think I'd be willing to give Ian/Martin/Perez for him. Ian everyone knows what they get. Martin is a nearly ready leadoff speedster in CF that is a very good contact hitter. Perez I believe is still considered a top 10 guy in the entire MLB minors system with a very lively arm. That would be a good haul, but I don't think SFO does it because it is two prospects and I already mentioned the downside of "prospects".

Heck, I'd go as far as to do something insane like Ian/Feliz/Perez for Cain. Anyone from the Texas board see's that and I'll probably be banned! ha

 

[tzill]

Where does Kins move if he's here the next 5 years?

since it's my fantasy, Kins and his family become good friends with the TZills and we spend every Rosh at each others houses. He joins my shul's board and gets me a job working for Jack Bair. Cue bar mitzvah music and candle lighting.

After 3 years of all-star 2b work, Kins becomes the super utility glue guy, backing up Panik, Panda, and Belt. 2015 NLCS MVP when he hits a pinch hit 3 run bomb vs. the Braves to send us to our fourth straight WS appearance.

Sigh....

 

[fordman84]

since it's my fantasy, Kins and his family become good friends with the TZills and we spend every Rosh at each others houses. He joins my shul's board and gets me a job working for Jack Bair. Cue bar mitzvah music and candle lighting.

After 3 years of all-star 2b work, Kins becomes the super utility glue guy, backing up Panik, Panda, and Belt. 2015 NLCS MVP when he hits a pinch hit 3 run bomb vs. the Braves to send us to our fourth straight WS appearance.

Sigh....

Could you handle the Ian hate? On the Texas board he is crucified when he gets in upper cut mode. When he flattens his swing, he is stellar. When he gets power hungry he will switch to an upper-cut swing and will make a ton of infield popups. At the first sign of an uppercut swing you can actually see the Rangers board light up with new threads about it. Ian is one of the few guys on the Rangers board that really polarizes the posters. Between he and Young, there are people that blindly love and hate both.

 

[tzill]

True on all accounts, but stuff like this is what the offseason is all about...crazy trades And I meant to imply that we would be creating one hole. We would be creating two, and filling one...thus creating a total of one new hole. Not a great trade when you have more problems than you started with.

My view is that the gap between Ian+Profar until the next 2B caliber guy in our system is much greater than the gap between Cain and our current rotation. Now don't get me wrong, Cain is MUCH better than anyone that we have seen anything out of on the Ranger rotation. I am just saying the falloff at second would be greater than what we would gain from Cain. I'd love to have Cain, and I think I'd be willing to give Ian/Martin/Perez for him. Ian everyone knows what they get. Martin is a nearly ready leadoff speedster in CF that is a very good contact hitter. Perez I believe is still considered a top 10 guy in the entire MLB minors system with a very lively arm. That would be a good haul, but I don't think SFO does it because it is two prospects and I already mentioned the downside of "prospects".

Heck, I'd go as far as to do something insane like Ian/Feliz/Perez for Cain. Anyone from the Texas board see's that and I'll probably be banned! ha

Dude, I'm not following -- maybe I'm just being thick here. How would this trade be "creating two holes" for the Rangers. I count one, unless you consider 2b AND future 2b as two. I count it as one.

Today: one hole -- Ace.
Post trade: one hole -- 2b.

What am I missing?

Btw, the rest of your post I agree with.

 

[calsnowskier]

since it's my fantasy, Kins and his family become good friends with the TZills and we spend every Rosh at each others houses. He joins my shul's board and gets me a job working for Jack Bair. Cue bar mitzvah music and candle lighting.

After 3 years of all-star 2b work, Kins becomes the super utility glue guy, backing up Panik, Panda, and Belt. 2015 NLCS MVP when he hits a pinch hit 3 run bomb vs. the Braves to send us to our fourth straight WS appearance.

Sigh....

I don't know, tz, a fantasy about lighting candles with a guy and spending time at each other's houses...

Does Mrs Zill know about these tendencies?








Not that there is anything wrong with that...

 

[fordman84]

Dude, I'm not following -- maybe I'm just being thick here. How would this trade be "creating two holes" for the Rangers. I count one, unless you consider 2b AND future 2b as two. I count it as one.

Today: one hole -- Ace.
Post trade: one hole -- 2b.

What am I missing?

Btw, the rest of your post I agree with.

Oh I got you. I'm thinking it creates two holes because we would be losing our next up and coming prospect pitcher in Perez. Some think Perez will be in the rotation next year. So by trading away a nearly ready pitcher that is one hole. Then you create a hole at 2nd also. Cain is a direct replacement/upgrade of Perez, so that is one "hole" created and filled. Sorry, we weren't getting on the same page.


Side note and way off topic, but as a Disney convert I caught myself in the middle of writing that paragraph and thinking "I can't say that, I need a space". And the thing I couldn't write was "a hole". That was banned on the Disney board. Nice to be treated like an adult.

 

[tzill]

Could you handle the Ian hate? On the Texas board he is crucified when he gets in upper cut mode. When he flattens his swing, he is stellar. When he gets power hungry he will switch to an upper-cut swing and will make a ton of infield popups. At the first sign of an uppercut swing you can actually see the Rangers board light up with new threads about it. Ian is one of the few guys on the Rangers board that really polarizes the posters. Between he and Young, there are people that blindly love and hate both.

Oh, there's always gonna be haters. Fortunately, the vast majority from Disney are not welcome here.

I'd roll the dice with one of my tribe. Always wanted Shawn Green too.

If I could pick, I'd have Braun, Youkilis, Kinsler, Marquis, and Fuld on my squad tomorrow. LF, 1B, 2B, SP, and CF covered. My wife will make brisket.

 

[tzill]

I don't know, tz, a fantasy about lighting candles with a guy and spending time at each other's houses...

Does Mrs Zill know about these tendencies?








Not that there is anything wrong with that...

Mrs. TZ is well aware of my mispucha proclivities...and approves (nothing can be done in a Hebrew household unless mama signs off anyway).

 

[fordman84]

Mrs. TZ is well aware of my mispucha proclivities...and approves (nothing can be done in a Hebrew household unless mama signs off anyway).

and she signed off on that awesome avi?

 

[Heathbar012]

That has been discussed, trying to figure out who gets moved to make room. I don't think anyone on the Rangers boards have come up with a good solution. I'm pretty sure that Elvis will continue to bulk up and become a better hitter. He is still stupid young as well. Some have said that Ian will be moved to a new position or traded, and Elvis or Profar will be moved to 2B. Not really sure.


It is a great problem to have, but Profar has to keep getting better. Three years ago we had a ton of prospect catchers that everyone wanted. Salty and Teagarden were both top prospects and both turned out to suck. Then we had a logjam at 1B with Smoak and Davis. Turns out Smoak was traded (and doesn't look to be anything special) and Davis was a K machine and was traded as well. So...two years from now Profar may be a dud and we need Ian and Elvis. So goes the joys of prospects

So true. I remember Teagarden in the College World Series. He looked like a can't-miss prospect. Do you recall his issue?

 

[bone3421]

You have to remember the source of these offers is a guy saying he wanted to trade for Cain, but took all the prizes in the Tex org off the table. Then offered an aging, over-paid DH as the center-piece of the deal.

Of course you will get jack-ass offers in return...

thats not what i said at all....i said the only two of the table imo would be perez/profar.....and i brought up young mainly in jest.....still tons of talent in the farm and some OF's ready to go right now

 

[bone3421]

True on all accounts, but stuff like this is what the offseason is all about...crazy trades And I meant to imply that we would be creating one hole. We would be creating two, and filling one...thus creating a total of one new hole. Not a great trade when you have more problems than you started with.

My view is that the gap between Ian+Profar until the next 2B caliber guy in our system is much greater than the gap between Cain and our current rotation. Now don't get me wrong, Cain is MUCH better than anyone that we have seen anything out of on the Ranger rotation. I am just saying the falloff at second would be greater than what we would gain from Cain. I'd love to have Cain, and I think I'd be willing to give Ian/Martin/Perez for him. Ian everyone knows what they get. Martin is a nearly ready leadoff speedster in CF that is a very good contact hitter. Perez I believe is still considered a top 10 guy in the entire MLB minors system with a very lively arm. That would be a good haul, but I don't think SFO does it because it is two prospects and I already mentioned the downside of "prospects".

Heck, I'd go as far as to do something insane like Ian/Feliz/Perez for Cain. Anyone from the Texas board see's that and I'll probably be banned! ha

i wont tell...but i think he can be had cheaper.....are the giants going to sign him and timmy and have money for other needs/players???? just wondering

 

[tzill]

and she signed off on that awesome avi?

Don't ask/don't tell...

 

[Mays-Fan]

Keep it simple. Wilson for Andrus. TX needs pitching, esp relievers. We have a relative surplus of relievers, and need a SS. Give good, get good. Proven commodities.

 

[bone3421]

Keep it simple. Wilson for Andrus. TX needs pitching, esp relievers. We have a relative surplus of relievers, and need a SS. Give good, get good. Proven commodities.

we have elvis until 2015 no thanks....cain is a FA next year and wilson might be(but im sure ya'll will offer arb.)