Tough Sledding Ahead

[Screamin12th]

like i said, carroll and schneider have shown they are not offensive guys, they know far more about defense. i wouldnt say thats incompetence, i would say complacence because they refuse to change anything when its obvious changes need to be made.

I would say they are not "offensive line guys" Tate was a great player for us and would REALLY help this team, Richardson just needs to get on the field more and replace Kearse, we can tell he is a better option. Lockett is a gamer, Wilson is a stud. Willson looks solid also and Vennett just looks to be a perfect 3rd down type TE who also comes with good to great hands. They seem to do well at RB also as Turbin was solid, Rawls shows promise and Prosise looks like a player that's going to be a big weapon when healthy.

The oline is a mess but they are young at both Guards and Center and those 3 players look like they could be very good with the right coaching. I feel they do not have the right coaching and heck they have been running more and more Man blocking this season. That's not Cables thing but they have looked better in the man scheme.

When i see the Hawks Oline cast offs playing at a higher level on other teams, this points a bigger finger at you know who. Are they really missing on those picks or is their shortcomings elsewhere in all this? like Coaching? Only way to tell if it's the coaching is to have a different Oline coach but then that could leave you wanting for the old guy back. Risk vs reward.

 

[chf]

Only way to tell if it's the coaching is to have a different Oline coach but then that could leave you wanting for the old guy back. Risk vs reward.

Which is why I keep banging the 'have a plan' drum. if you make a change, you don't just do it willy-nilly. You have a plan in place, and you go out and get either a veteran coach at the top of his game, or an up and coming young guy who has potential to be great.

So if the team wants to gas Cable, I'm okay with that, but who are they replacing him with?

 

[JMR]

I would say they are not "offensive line guys" Tate was a great player for us and would REALLY help this team, Richardson just needs to get on the field more and replace Kearse, we can tell he is a better option. Lockett is a gamer, Wilson is a stud. Willson looks solid also and Vennett just looks to be a perfect 3rd down type TE who also comes with good to great hands. They seem to do well at RB also as Turbin was solid, Rawls shows promise and Prosise looks like a player that's going to be a big weapon when healthy.

Saying Tate was a "great" player is a bit much. I liked him on the team and thought he was really improving before he left, but he was with us 4 years and only had 1 season that was better than average for a starting WR in the NFL. I agree he would help this team some if he were on it, but I think any struggles we've had in the passing game that you want to point out are more a result of injuries to RW and troubles with the OL and not really due to lack of WR talent. But yeah, more Tate and less Kearse on the '16 Seahawks is an improvement.

When i see the Hawks Oline cast offs playing at a higher level on other teams, this points a bigger finger at you know who. Are they really missing on those picks or is their shortcomings elsewhere in all this? like Coaching? Only way to tell if it's the coaching is to have a different Oline coach but then that could leave you wanting for the old guy back. Risk vs reward.

Which linemen are you thinking of who have left recently and had demonstrably better performance somewhere else? Sweezy hasn't even played this year. Reports on Okung aren't glowing -- none that I've heard anyway. Carpenter?

 

[Screamin12th]

Saying Tate was a "great" player is a bit much. I liked him on the team and thought he was really improving before he left, but he was with us 4 years and only had 1 season that was better than average for a starting WR in the NFL. I agree he would help this team some if he were on it, but I think any struggles we've had in the passing game that you want to point out are more a result of injuries to RW and troubles with the OL and not really due to lack of WR talent. But yeah, more Tate and less Kearse on the '16 Seahawks is an improvement.

Which linemen are you thinking of who have left recently and had demonstrably better performance somewhere else? Sweezy hasn't even played this year. Reports on Okung aren't glowing -- none that I've heard anyway. Carpenter?

you saying Doug Baldwin is not a great player? Tate is on the same level as Doug with more speed and better hands. Doug though is clutch on 3rd downs. You can not gauge a WR on this team that threw SO MUCH less when Tate was here than they do now. for 16 games they threw it 420 times times in 2013 when Tate averages 14.0 YPC, he was averaging 15.3 in 2012. This year at 14 games they are at 484. They could be close to 520 or 100 more attempts. Can't blame Tates production before Wilson was here because he had T-jack throwing to him in 2011 and a often injured Hasselbeck in 2010. Dude was money for YAC. Tate is on the same level as Doug and Lockett, and above every other WR on this team. Yes he was a great player, like it or not and No he did not sleep with Wilson's wife lol. That was a rumor started by haters because he took the money and ran.

ALSO i was talking about the talent level of players the Hawks drafted on offense and you TOTALLY missed the point. I do mean TOTALLY!

The Hawks can and have had success drafting Talented offensive players just not Olineman.

 

[Screamin12th]

Which linemen are you thinking of who have left recently and had demonstrably better performance somewhere else? Sweezy hasn't even played this year. Reports on Okung aren't glowing -- none that I've heard anyway. Carpenter?

Carpenter was listed as the Jets best Olineman this year and is still listed as the 18th best out of the 36 starters in the NFL at Guard. Okung regressed when he was here. Yes, his best years were his rookie and second season even though he was injured a lot. Max Unger a player used in the trade for Graham was regressing and was listed as low as the 25th best center when he was with Seattle and Now is back in the top 10 in most rankings. Britt isn't even listed in all the rankings i can find ( to be honest i think he should be ). Carp was looked at as a total bust but he would be our starting LG and better than Glowinski.

Britt was not a bad RT when he was out there and he improved as the season went on but they still moved him to Guard...WHY? Thankfully he found a home at Center but he was SO CLOSE to being released that it's not even funny and he is talented, extremely talented and this Staff almost missed again.

 

[chf]

you saying Doug Baldwin is not a great player? Tate is on the same level as Doug with more speed and better hands. Doug though is clutch on 3rd downs. You can not gauge a WR on this team that threw SO MUCH less when Tate was here than they do now. for 16 games they threw it 420 times times in 2013 when Tate averages 14.0 YPC, he was averaging 15.3 in 2012. This year at 14 games they are at 484. They could be close to 520 or 100 more attempts. Can't blame Tates production before Wilson was here because he had T-jack throwing to him in 2011 and a often injured Hasselbeck in 2010. Dude was money for YAC. Tate is on the same level as Doug and Lockett, and above every other WR on this team. Yes he was a great player, like it or not and No he did not sleep with Wilson's wife lol. That was a rumor started by haters because he took the money and ran.

ALSO i was talking about the talent level of players the Hawks drafted on offense and you TOTALLY missed the point. I do mean TOTALLY!

The Hawks can and have had success drafting Talented offensive players just not Olineman.

I'm pretty sure he slept with NWPAT's wife.

 

[chf]

Carpenter was listed as the Jets best Olineman this year and is still listed as the 18th best out of the 36 starters in the NFL at Guard. Okung regressed when he was here. Yes, his best years were his rookie and second season even though he was injured a lot. Max Unger a player used in the trade for Graham was regressing and was listed as low as the 25th best center when he was with Seattle and Now is back in the top 10 in most rankings. Britt isn't even listed in all the rankings i can find ( to be honest i think he should be ). Carp was looked at as a total bust but he would be our starting LG and better than Glowinski.

Britt was not a bad RT when he was out there and he improved as the season went on but they still moved him to Guard...WHY? Thankfully he found a home at Center but he was SO CLOSE to being released that it's not even funny and he is talented, extremely talented and this Staff almost missed again.

So same question to you as I asked Snuggles re: Bevell. Are Pete and John incompetent or just sloppy because they don't fire Cable?

 

[Screamin12th]

So same question to you as I asked Snuggles re: Bevell. Are Pete and John incompetent or just sloppy because they don't fire Cable?

No i think they feel like he gets these guys ready as good as anyone else could. I just don't see it and many fans don't see it either. Some times you can't see the greener grass when you are inside the fence. One Place this team has always been bad since Pete and John have been here is the oline. It has not worked, not even close. Something there has to change and now we got a little talent up the middle, will we just never see it bloom under Cable? We have had the talent before and it was still bad. It feels like

 

[chf]

No i think they feel like he gets these guys ready as good as anyone else could. I just don't see it and many fans don't see it either. Some times you can't see the greener grass when you are inside the fence. One Place this team has always been bad since Pete and John have been here is the oline. It has not worked, not even close. Something there has to change and now we got a little talent up the middle, will we just never see it bloom under Cable? We have had the talent before and it was still bad. It feels like

We had some talent, but it was veteran talent, and it wanted to get paid. So it got paid elsewhere.

The team is transitioning into being Wilson's, and part of that will be re-allocation of resources into the OL. Drafting Ifedi was a first step. As you say the interior is looking promising. Now they have to piece together some tackles and some depth.

If there IS a better option at O-line coach, (I'm open to there being one), the identify it, and bring either a veteran top shelf guy, or a young wunderkind.

I give P+J a lot of rope though, so if they like Cable, imo there's a reason. Beyond blind loyalty or 'not seeing the forest for the trees.'

 

[JMR]

you saying Doug Baldwin is not a great player? Tate is on the same level as Doug with more speed and better hands. Doug though is clutch on 3rd downs. You can not gauge a WR on this team that threw SO MUCH less when Tate was here than they do now. for 16 games they threw it 420 times times in 2013 when Tate averages 14.0 YPC, he was averaging 15.3 in 2012. This year at 14 games they are at 484. They could be close to 520 or 100 more attempts. Can't blame Tates production before Wilson was here because he had T-jack throwing to him in 2011 and a often injured Hasselbeck in 2010. Dude was money for YAC. Tate is on the same level as Doug and Lockett, and above every other WR on this team. Yes he was a great player, like it or not and No he did not sleep with Wilson's wife lol. That was a rumor started by haters because he took the money and ran.

ALSO i was talking about the talent level of players the Hawks drafted on offense and you TOTALLY missed the point. I do mean TOTALLY!

The Hawks can and have had success drafting Talented offensive players just not Olineman.

First, no, I didn't miss any of your points. I responded directly to 2 specific things you said that I didn't quite agree with. Not sure what you think that means anything about anything else you said.

Second, no clue why you're bringing up Doug Baldwin when the comment was about Tate. You said Tate was a "GREAT" player. I think that's a bit overboard. That has nothing to do with Doug Baldwin.

 

[Uhsplit]

I would say they are not "offensive line guys" Tate was a great player for us and would REALLY help this team, Richardson just needs to get on the field more and replace Kearse, we can tell he is a better option. Lockett is a gamer, Wilson is a stud. Willson looks solid also and Vennett just looks to be a perfect 3rd down type TE who also comes with good to great hands. They seem to do well at RB also as Turbin was solid, Rawls shows promise and Prosise looks like a player that's going to be a big weapon when healthy.

The oline is a mess but they are young at both Guards and Center and those 3 players look like they could be very good with the right coaching. I feel they do not have the right coaching and heck they have been running more and more Man blocking this season. That's not Cables thing but they have looked better in the man scheme.

When i see the Hawks Oline cast offs playing at a higher level on other teams, this points a bigger finger at you know who. Are they really missing on those picks or is their shortcomings elsewhere in all this? like Coaching? Only way to tell if it's the coaching is to have a different Oline coach but then that could leave you wanting for the old guy back. Risk vs reward.

Specifically who, and what do you base your opinion on?

 

[Screamin12th]

I give P+J a lot of rope though, so if they like Cable, imo there's a reason. Beyond blind loyalty or 'not seeing the forest for the trees.'

four 6 years? People forget he has been here that long and the line the Hawks had when he came in was better than they have now, Not a ton but they were. It's been a brutal 6 years for our QB's i tell you that. Yes you got to pay talent to keep talent go figure. Britt is next on the list they going to let him walk also? Then Ifedi when his rookie contract is up?

There was a thread last year on a couple coaches i thought about as oline coaches that could come in here.

First, no, I didn't miss any of your points. I responded directly to 2 specific things you said that I didn't quite agree with. Not sure what you think that means anything about anything else you said.

Second, no clue why you're bringing up Doug Baldwin when the comment was about Tate. You said Tate was a "GREAT" player. I think that's a bit overboard. That has nothing to do with Doug Baldwin.

I brought up Baldwin because Tate is every bit as good as Baldwin so if you think Baldwin is great then so is Tate. I am SURE you have said Baldwin is great before. Tate is a much better Yards after catch guy.

 

[chf]

four 6 years? People forget he has been here that long and the line the Hawks had when he came in was better than they have now, Not a ton but they were. It's been a brutal 6 years for our QB's i tell you that. Yes you got to pay talent to keep talent go figure. Britt is next on the list they going to let him walk also? Then Ifedi when his rookie contract is up?

There was a thread last year on a couple coaches i thought about as oline coaches that could come in here.

And when he came here, we also spent a whole fuck of a lot more of our cap on the O-line.

And no, the team is now transitioning (imo) to being Wilson's team. Which also entails giving him the tools he needs to be successful, and hopefully win at least one more Lombardi before he's done. So they're starting to INVEST in the O-line. So in theory, guys that pan out will be given contracts and will stay.

Now of course that's ALSO going to entail making sacrifices and cuts in other areas. Guys like Kearse will be cut, some of our high prices aging vets on the D will be let go.

The proof is in the trophy case though. The team won a Lombardi. Came sooooo close to doing something a team hasn't done in forever and won two in a row.

So again, P+J get a lot of rope with me. If they trust Cable to be the guy, so do I. If they decide to go in another direction, I'm good with that too. I trust if they ARE going to gas Cable, that they'll have a plan to replace him with someone as good or better.

To me, the logic falls down when people DON'T trust P+J, and you can usually get an inkling that deep down the critics know that the logic falls down, because they back off the inherent criticism of the brain trust, and use watered down critiques like 'loyal,' or 'can't see the forest for the trees.'

If it's so blindingly apparent that Cable (and Bevell!!!) are awful, then P+J are incompetent at worst and sloppy at best, and lucked into our success.

There's simply NO WAY that Pete and John don't know that they dodged a major bullet this year by getting Wilson hurt. That it's pretty amazing that the team has won the west again, and has the chance to get on a roll and win a game or two in the playoffs. They know better than anyone that they HAVE to protect Wilson better moving forward. That they have another 10 YEARS of success if they do.

So that interior line is going to get paid.

And they're going to concentrate on drafting/trading for T help and depth moving forward.

 

[SonnyCID]

four 6 years? People forget he has been here that long and the line the Hawks had when he came in was better than they have now, Not a ton but they were. It's been a brutal 6 years for our QB's i tell you that. Yes you got to pay talent to keep talent go figure. Britt is next on the list they going to let him walk also? Then Ifedi when his rookie contract is up?

There was a thread last year on a couple coaches i thought about as oline coaches that could come in here.



I brought up Baldwin because Tate is every bit as good as Baldwin so if you think Baldwin is great then so is Tate. I am SURE you have said Baldwin is great before. Tate is a much better Yards after catch guy.

What makes you so sure of that?

 

[Screamin12th]

And when he came here, we also spent a whole fuck of a lot more of our cap on the O-line.

And no, the team is now transitioning (imo) to being Wilson's team. Which also entails giving him the tools he needs to be successful, and hopefully win at least one more Lombardi before he's done. So they're starting to INVEST in the O-line. So in theory, guys that pan out will be given contracts and will stay.

Now of course that's ALSO going to entail making sacrifices and cuts in other areas. Guys like Kearse will be cut, some of our high prices aging vets on the D will be let go.

The proof is in the trophy case though. The team won a Lombardi. Came sooooo close to doing something a team hasn't done in forever and won two in a row.

So again, P+J get a lot of rope with me. If they trust Cable to be the guy, so do I. If they decide to go in another direction, I'm good with that too. I trust if they ARE going to gas Cable, that they'll have a plan to replace him with someone as good or better.

To me, the logic falls down when people DON'T trust P+J, and you can usually get an inkling that deep down the critics know that the logic falls down, because they back off the inherent criticism of the brain trust, and use watered down critiques like 'loyal,' or 'can't see the forest for the trees.'

If it's so blindingly apparent that Cable (and Bevell!!!) are awful, then P+J are incompetent at worst and sloppy at best, and lucked into our success.

There's simply NO WAY that Pete and John don't know that they dodged a major bullet this year by getting Wilson hurt. That it's pretty amazing that the team has won the west again, and has the chance to get on a roll and win a game or two in the playoffs. They know better than anyone that they HAVE to protect Wilson better moving forward. That they have another 10 YEARS of success if they do.

So that interior line is going to get paid.

And they're going to concentrate on drafting/trading for T help and depth moving forward.

yeah 6 sacks today, that's working. Sigh

 

[chf]

yeah 6 sacks today, that's working. Sigh

Heh, I get your frustration, I really do.

Again, I had them at 10 and 6, because of that O line.

Work-in-progress.