Top 32 tournament SS Vaughan vs Fregosi

[obxyankeefan]

Top 32 players ranked by BRWAR(as of 6/18/15).

Shortstop Bracket is:

1 H Wagner 8
32 N Garciaparra 0

16 PW Reese 3
17 L Boudreau 6

8 B Dahlen 8
25 A Fletcher 1

9 L Appling 8
24 D Bancroft 0

4 G Davis 6 advances on seed
29 O Vizquel 6

13 B Larkin 7
20 J Sewell 0

5 R Yount 8
28 V Stephens 4

12 A Trammell 14
21 J Tinker 0

3 C Ripken JR 8
30 T Fernandez 2

14 E Banks 10
19 L Aparicio 0

6 O Smith 16
27 J Rollins 1

11 D Jeter 12
22 B Campaneris 1

2 A Rodriguez 9
31 R Peckinpaugh 0

15 J Cronin 5
18 J Glasscock 4

7 B Wallace 5
26 M Tejada 6

10 A Vaughan
23 J Fregosi

1 H Wagner
17 L Boudreau

8 B Dahlen
9 L Appling

4 G Davis
13 B Larkin

5 R Yount
12 A Trammell

3 C Ripken JR
14 E Banks

6 O Smith
11 D Jeter

2 A Rodriguez
15 J Cronin

26 M Tejada

 

[obxyankeefan]

Arky Vaughan Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

Jim Fregosi Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

 

[MilkSpiller22]

this one feels like a 1 vs 32, because that's how much better Vaughan is... Vaughan wins, and I cant see ONE reason to vote for fregosi!!!

 

[DragonfromTO]

this one feels like a 1 vs 32, because that's how much better Vaughan is... Vaughan wins, and I cant see ONE reason to vote for fregosi!!!

Vaughan is certainly the winner here but you're not giving Fregosi enough credit. Remember, his peak seasons were in the second dead ball era.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Vaughan is certainly the winner here but you're not giving Fregosi enough credit. Remember, his peak seasons were in the second dead ball era.

so, it is not like Vaughan was a HR hitter either...

 

[navamind]

so, it is not like Vaughan was a HR hitter either...

So? Home runs weren't the only things suppressed.

 

[navamind]

Fregosi was a helluva player from 63-70. .271/.341/.409 with a 119 OPS+ from shortstop. He was worth 41.2 fWAR, tenth among all players over that span (and all of the players ahead of him are HOFers, most of whom were all-time greats).

Not to mention Vaughan's peak is nothing to sneeze at either.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

So? Home runs weren't the only things suppressed.

if you want to give fregosi credit for playing in the second dead ball era, but look at OPS+ which compares players to their era, Vaughan is significantly better at that too...

 

[navamind]

if you want to give fregosi credit for playing in the second dead ball era, but look at OPS+ which compares players to their era, Vaughan is significantly better at that too...

Obviously. I think Vaughan's better by a pretty good margin. But a 113 wRC+* from a shortstop is still quite good. In fact, it ranks 24th all-time among shortstops, and that includes guys with about ~3000 PA and played more games at other positions than SS.

that being said, Vaughan was really really good. And it's ridiculous it took the freaking Veterans Committee to get him in. Fregosi's very similar to guys like Nomar in terms of peak/career value.

* - if you aren't familiar with wRC+, it's very similar to OPS+. You can read more about it here.

 

[DragonfromTO]

if you want to give fregosi credit for playing in the second dead ball era, but look at OPS+ which compares players to their era, Vaughan is significantly better at that too...

Remind me again who exactly was arguing for Fregosi ahead of him?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Remind me again who exactly was arguing for Fregosi ahead of him?

Well, you were trying to defend him towards me saying that i dont see one reason that Vaughan can lose... Maybe i got confused towards your intentions...

 

[DragonfromTO]

Well, you were trying to defend him towards me saying that i dont see one reason that Vaughan can lose... Maybe i got confused towards your intentions...

Was that my post that began "Vaughan is certainly the winner here..."?

What I took issue with was the idea that the gap between them is equivalent to the gap between a 1 and a 32.