Top 32 tournament 1b Palmeiro vs Clark

[obxyankeefan]

Top 32 players ranked by BRWAR(as of 6/18/15).

1basemen Bracket is:

1 L Gehrig 6
32 J Giambi 0

16 J Beckley 0
17 T Helton 7

8 F Thomas 8
25 B Terry 0

9 J Thome 7
24 G Sisler 1

4 C Anson 3
29 N Cash 4

13 W McCovey 5
20 D Allen 0

5 R Connor 1
28 F McGriff 12

12 E Murray 10
21 J Olerud 3

3 J Foxx 15
30 L Berkman 0

14 M Cabrera 10
19 K Hernandez 7

6 J Bagwell 9
27 J Clark 1

11 J Mize 4
22 H Greenberg 6

2 A Pujols 12
31 M Teixeira 0

15 M McGwire 5
18 H Killebrew 17

7 D Brouthers 6
26 T Perez 2

10 R Palmeiro
23 W Clark

1 L Gehrig
17 T Helton

8 F Thomas
9 J Thome

29 N Cash
13 W McCovey

28 F McGriff
12 E Murray

3 J Foxx
14 M Cabrera

6 J Bagwell
22 H Greenberg

2 A Pujols
18 H Killebrew

7 D Brouthers

 

[obxyankeefan]

Rafael Palmeiro Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

Will Clark Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

 

[obxyankeefan]

The one Cal has been waiting for is finally here. I have to go with Palmeiro. Clark was a better defender IMO, but the 10 HRs per every 162 games and the extra 250 games at 1B are just too much for the defnse to make up.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I can't believe Clark is ranked this high.

Easy one for Mister Period.

 

[calsnowskier]

I actually have NOT been looking forward to this one.

Clark is probably my favorite player ever, but outside his Giants years, and early Texas years, he just does not belong on any kind of "all-time" team.

Conversely, I hate Palmeiro. He was never a top player. He just lasted forever and a day. Then you have "the Stank". And with him, it is almost like "the Stank" on steroids.

This one hurts because of all this. Pre-research, I gotta go with Raffy.

-----------------------------------

(The above was written before I actually looked at the numbers)

OPS+120: Clark - 13; Raffy - 12 (he was an OFer in '87 and '88 and a DH in '03)
OPS+ 140: Clark - 7; Rafy - 7
OPS+ 150: Clark - 4; Raffy - 3
OPS+ 160: Clark - 2; Raffy - 1
WAR7: Clark - 35.9; Raffy - 38.7 (this includes non-1B activity as well, assuming '87, '88 or '03 are considered one of his top 7 seasons)

Again, I basically ignore career numbers in these comparisons. It doesn't tell me anything. Why should numbers accrued during garbage time effect how we view a player at the end?

I don't remember Raffys rep as a defender, but Clark was a stud defender.

This is so incredibly close, I don't know which way to go. Clark edges out the OPS+ battle, but Raffy wins the WAR7 battle. Clark takes the defense. Should clubhouse persona play a part here? Reportedly, Clark was not the greatest guy to have in the clubhouse while Raffy was a true professional.

I am edging towards Clark after the analysis, but I think personal bias has something to do with that.

 

[calsnowskier]

Wow.

While I don't have a prob with Raffy winning here, I don't get the blow-out. It is actually a very close comparison.

I strongly suspect most voters don't do any research on these.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Wow.

While I don't have a prob with Raffy winning here, I don't get the blow-out. It is actually a very close comparison.

I strongly suspect most voters don't do any research on these.

Well if everybody thought Palmeiro was slightly better the voting would look like a landslide but in reality everybody thought it was pretty close (but in Palmeiro's favor).

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I actually think Palmeiro is way over-rated... I just went him since there offensive numbers are already close, but palmeiro had significantly more plate appearances... When it is close, I always go with plate appearances...

 

[Wamu]

March 17, 2005...


"Let's me start by telling you this: I have never used steroids, period. I don't know how to say it anymore clearly than that. Never."

-Rafael Palmeiro



Interesting.

 

[DHoey]

Fuck that liar, my vote is for Clark

 

[Arizona_Sting]

I vote Goldy

 

[calsnowskier]

Well if everybody thought Palmeiro was slightly better the voting would look like a landslide but in reality everybody thought it was pretty close (but in Palmeiro's favor).

Fair enough.

 

[calsnowskier]

March 17, 2005...


"Let's me start by telling you this: I have never used steroids, period. I don't know how to say it anymore clearly than that. Never."

-Rafael Palmeiro



Interesting.

This is why his roid usage was actually on steroids. He turned it up to 11.

 

[DragonfromTO]

I can't believe Clark is ranked this high.

Easy one for Mister Period.

Clark's a lot better than you're giving him credit for. Had a broad base of skills and did everything very well, but guys like that always tend to end up underrated.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Clark's a lot better than you're giving him credit for. Had a broad base of skills and did everything very well, but guys like that always tend to end up underrated.

Clark was a very effective player in San Fran. The rest of his career wasn't anything to write home about, and also the power thing.

Of course, if he followed in Palmeiro's footsteps that probably wouldn't have been a problem so maybe it's a little harsh.

 

[calsnowskier]

Clark was a very effective player in San Fran. The rest of his career wasn't anything to write home about, and also the power thing.

Of course, if he followed in Palmeiro's footsteps that probably wouldn't have been a problem so maybe it's a little harsh.

He was a star in SF, for sure. But he was still a 120 OPS+ player post-Giants, and had 2 140 seasons post-Giants.

He has no chance of winning this tourney, and probably wont get past Raffy, but he was no slouch. He certainly belongs in this tourney.

 

[navamind]

Clark played a good portion of his career in a pitcher-friendly ballpark (Candlestick). I went with Palmeiro because of longevity, but I think Clark was easily the more talented player of the two.

 

[Montalban]

Clark played a good portion of his career in a pitcher-friendly ballpark (Candlestick). I went with Palmeiro because of longevity, but I think Clark was easily the more talented player of the two.

Plus Palmeiro was a steroid cheat.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Plus Palmeiro was a steroid cheat.

So was 90% of the league

 

[Montalban]

So was 90% of the league

I would dispute that number but would agree that it is tough to judge accurately any statistics that were put up in that era.