Top 32 tournament 1B Miggy vs Hernandez

[obxyankeefan]

Top 32 players ranked by BRWAR(as of 6/18/15).

1basemen Bracket is:

1 L Gehrig 6
32 J Giambi 0

16 J Beckley 0
17 T Helton 7

8 F Thomas 8
25 B Terry 0

9 J Thome 7
24 G Sisler 1

4 C Anson 3
29 N Cash 4

13 W McCovey 5
20 D Allen 0

5 R Connor 1
28 F McGriff 12

12 E Murray 10
21 J Olerud 3

3 J Foxx 15
30 L Berkman 0

14 M Cabrera
19 K Hernandez

6 J Bagwell
27 J Clark

11 J Mize
22 H Greenberg

2 A Pujols
31 M Teixeira

15 M McGwire
18 H Killebrew

7 D Brouthers
26 T Perez

10 R Palmeiro
23 W Clark

1 L Gehrig
17 T Helton

8 F Thomas
9 J Thome

29 N Cash
13 W McCovey

28 F McGriff
12 E Murray

3 J Foxx

 

[obxyankeefan]

Miguel Cabrera Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

Keith Hernandez Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

 

[obxyankeefan]

Wife beater vs Just for Men

How the hell is Hernandez on this list and no Mattingly? Mattingly was the better fielder.

 

[calsnowskier]

Wife beater vs Just for Men

How the hell is Hernandez on this list and no Mattingly? Mattingly was the better fielder.

We need a double-take or spit-take smiley.

Good defense is NOT better than all-time defense.

 

[calsnowskier]

Miggy is hardly a 1B. Both his MVP seasons were as a 3B. He only played 1B from '08-'11, then '14 and '15.

He is the better player, hands down. But that is not the question this excercize is supposed to answer. This is supposed to address who the better FIRST BASEMAN is.

Keith Hernandez wins this one by default.

 

[obxyankeefan]

We need a double-take or spit-take smiley.

Good defense is NOT better than all-time defense.

While most of that post was a joke to try and get people to talk about these instead of just voting, the part about Mattingly being the better fielder I believe is true. My cousin(Mets fan) and I used to have that debate while they were both still playing. Mattingly does not belong on this list, but I would put him against any 1B as far as Deafensive ability goes.

 

[calsnowskier]

While most of that post was a joke to try and get people to talk about these instead of just voting, the part about Mattingly being the better fielder I believe is true. My cousin(Mets fan) and I used to have that debate while they were both still playing. Mattingly does not belong on this list, but I would put him against any 1B as far as Deafensive ability goes.

JT Snow was a wizard with the glove. Best I ever saw.

But I am not going to compare him to Hernandez. My homerism only goes so far.

Good to see everyone does not suffer my same affliction

 

[Villain]

Miggy is the better hitter by far. But he's hard to place as a 1B. The value of his offense outweighs any defensive considerations.

 

[calsnowskier]

Miggy is the better hitter by far. But he's hard to place as a 1B. The value of his offense outweighs any defensive considerations.

By this logic, why not list Ruth as the best 1B of all time? Or Bonds? Or Williams?

This is a "tournament" to crown the best 1B. Not to crown "The Best Player in these random groups"

There is no question that Miggy is the better player. And the fact that he is a 3B INCREASES his value. But this is a 1B category.

 

[Villain]

By this logic, why not list Ruth as the best 1B of all time? Or Bonds? Or Williams?

This is a "tournament" to crown the best 1B. Not to crown "The Best Player in these random groups"

Well, Miggy plays 1B.

 

[obxyankeefan]

By this logic, why not list Ruth as the best 1B of all time? Or Bonds? Or Williams?

This is a "tournament" to crown the best 1B. Not to crown "The Best Player in these random groups"

There is no question that Miggy is the better player. And the fact that he is a 3B INCREASES his value. But this is a 1B category.

Cal, I understand your logic and you have been consistent with it, but what position would you list Muggy as? He has played >100 games at first base over third and >450 games over the outfield, but less than half his games have been at first. IMO you list them at the position they played most, except in a few cases like Ernie Banks.

 

[calsnowskier]

Well, Miggy plays 1B.

But he best years were at 3B. He only has about 5 seasons as a 1B. If we were to revisit in 10 years, MAYBE he would qualify here. But we can only look at what has happened, not wht might happen in the future.

This is why I have no problem with Posey not being included. When all is said and done, he will be AT LEAST a top 5 all-time catcher. Right now, he is too young.

 

[calsnowskier]

Cal, I understand your logic and you have been consistent with it, but what position would you list Muggy as? He has played >100 games at first base over third and >450 games over the outfield, but less than half his games have been at first. IMO you list them at the position they played most, except in a few cases like Ernie Banks.

Players that move around get hurt IN A POSITION-SPECIFIC DISCUSSION. Biggio gets hurt by this as well. As does Rose.

 

[obxyankeefan]

But he best years were at 3B. He only has about 5 seasons as a 1B. If we were to revisit in 10 years, MAYBE he would qualify here. But we can only look at what has happened, not wht might happen in the future.

This is why I have no problem with Posey not being included. When all is said and done, he will be AT LEAST a top 5 all-time catcher. Right now, he is too young.

08-11 He was a 1B and only went back to third in 2012 because the Tigers signed Prince Fielder. Granted with Prince protecting him, Miggy won both his MAPs as a 3B.

 

[Villain]

But he best years were at 3B. He only has about 5 seasons as a 1B. If we were to revisit in 10 years, MAYBE he would qualify here. But we can only look at what has happened, not wht might happen in the future.

This is why I have no problem with Posey not being included. When all is said and done, he will be AT LEAST a top 5 all-time catcher. Right now, he is too young.

I don't really care to argue about Posey. I don't have an opinion there.

I can see your argument and it's valid. Miggy is not a career 1B. For me, he's played enough to justify his spot on this list and considering his offensive abilities - he's got more value than Hernandez. Hence my vote.

Also, I'd point out that Miggy would've been at 1B sooner if the Tigers hadn't signed Prince Fielder. That's what kept him at 3B so long. Cabrera should've been at 1B for those years.

 

[obxyankeefan]

Players that move around get hurt IN A POSITION-SPECIFIC DISCUSSION. Biggio gets hurt by this as well. As does Rose.

just wondering.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

BUT we are talking first base here. A position that is known for being the position you throw your worst defenders. If you are going to be a bad defender first base is where the player would be put. So of all positions this is one I care least about defense. And therefore also care least about how many games played. Not saying defense is not important. It just is less of a factor than offense is IMO. That's why I have to go with the better hitter. And there is no question that miggy is better.

 

[Howie115]

Miggy is hardly a 1B. Both his MVP seasons were as a 3B. He only played 1B from '08-'11, then '14 and '15.

I don't think it's fair to punish Cabrera for having position versatility. And as mentioned, he would have played 1B from '08-present without the acquisition of Prince Fielder. That speaks more to Fielder's limited position potential than to Miggy's inability to play 1B. Call it a homer vote if you will, but I am going with the guy who has a .322 career BA, and who will easily surpass 3,000 hits and 500 HR before all is said and done.

 

[calsnowskier]

I don't think it's fair to punish Cabrera for having position versatility. And as mentioned, he would have played 1B from '08-present without the acquisition of Prince Fielder. That speaks more to Fielder's limited position potential than to Miggy's inability to play 1B. Call it a homer vote if you will, but I am going with the guy who has a .322 career BA, and who will easily surpass 3,000 hits and 500 HR before all is said and done.

I already stated that Miggy is CLEARLY the better player.

But this is a FIRST BASE discussion. Therefore, including Miggy does not make sense.

Tom Hanks is a great actor. Possibly my favorite of all time. But I would not include him in a list of best basketball centers of all time.

 

[calsnowskier]

just wondering.

I did not intend my response to be defensive or argumentative (in a fighting kind of way - we ARE having an argument, after all ). I was just answering...