too soon for an NFL thread?

[jstewismybastardson]

Ill love it when Wilson wins it over both #dontevenknowifnominated

Wilson will get votes

on that note ... Don Banks ... wtf? in Sept, he picked Russell Wilson as the SI preseason predictor NFC offensive ROY

 

[Bizzle McDizzle]

love it

I hear Sanchez can be had, Mr. Jones. Make the trade. For the love of all that is awesome for those of us not fans of either team who like to make fun of them, please make the trade.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000120457/article/tony-romo-dallas-cowboys-should-part-ways-after-latest-loss

 

[elocomotive]

I don't hate they guy. I think he's a very talented QB. I just think he's got a lot of talent around him, which makes his job much easier.

Yes, that's true. Before the season started the analysts could not stop talking about all the talent the Redskins have - the healthy and deep O-line, the elite level of talent in the receiving core, the depth and power at running back, and the top-ranked secondary in the NFL. I'm glad we lived up to all the preseason predictions taking the division. A little disappointed we weren't able to finish the season 14-2 as predicted and as we've finished the last four seasons, but making the playoffs is nice I guess.

If I mention RG3, you have to bring up Luck. It's ridiculous. Eat your fucking crow, or stop talking about it. Christ. You have ZERO credibility.

 

[elocomotive]

How long has he been a black quarterback?

I think since late October.

 

[dash]

I think the extra elements of Indy rebounding from a horrible season plus the feel-good Chuck Pagano story might push Andrew Luck to the ROY award.

 

[elocomotive]

just... wow

can't even let the guy enjoy three record the man set.


How much more talent did Cam Newton have around him last year? Can he at least enjoy THAT record?
:rollseyes:

And interception % is a %, WTF does it matter if he threw 300 or 500. He still threw it to the guys in the right colored jerseys, which rookies tend to do a lot less than non rookies.

Thank you, Biz. Cheers.

 

[Bizzle McDizzle]

Wilson will get votes

on that note ... Don Banks ... wtf? in Sept, he picked Russell Wilson as the SI preseason predictor NFC offensive ROY

I hope he does. He should.
He won't win because he's been in the Pacific NW this year and peeps didn't talk about him like this until late, but he deserves to be in the discussion without a doubt.
From a Wolfpack of Badgers.

 

[Bizzle McDizzle]

I think the extra elements of Indy rebounding from a horrible season plus the feel-good Chuck Pagano story might push Andrew Luck to the ROY award.

agree

still, it's not like he doesn't deserve it though, he does, it just should be more of a 3 horse race than I think it is.

 

[dash]

agree

still, it's not like he doesn't deserve it though, he does, it just should be more of a 3 horse race than I think it is.

Yeah, I forgot to add that Luck was excellent this season and by his numbers alone deserves consideration.

 

[Bizzle McDizzle]

Wait
I just remembered
According to Rob Parker, he's really NOT a black quarterback

He's not real. OK, he's black, he kind of does the thing, but he's not really down with the cause. He's not one of us. He's kind of black, but he's not really, like, the guy you want to hang out with because he's off to something else.
We all know he has a white fiancee. There was all this talk about how he's a Republican.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Yes, that's true. Before the season started the analysts could not stop talking about all the talent the Redskins have - the healthy and deep O-line, the elite level of talent in the receiving core, the depth and power at running back, and the top-ranked secondary in the NFL. I'm glad we lived up to all the preseason predictions taking the division. A little disappointed we weren't able to finish the season 14-2 as predicted and as we've finished the last four seasons, but making the playoffs is nice I guess.

If I mention RG3, you have to bring up Luck. It's ridiculous. Eat your fucking crow, or stop talking about it. Christ. You have ZERO credibility.

You do know that Indy had the worst record in the league last season right? Did you know they gave up over 60 points in a game last year? Peyton Manning was the Colts. Without him they were beyond awful. The Redskins actually played pretty well last year with Beck & Grossman as their QB's. They played in a number of close games. So it shouldn't be such a big surprise that the Redskins were improved this season. Does RG3 deserve a lot of credit for that? ABSOLUTELY!! So does Morris & the OL blocking for them both. It didn't hurt to play in the NFC East either. The Bears went 10-6 & missed the playoffs, their coach was fired because of it.

 

[IPostedWhat]

I think Jason Smith from NFL.com says it all right here:

For what he did and how he did it, there's no other choice but Luck
I realize we're splitting hairs because they're all terrific. With no slight to Robert Griffin or Russell Wilson, there's no other choice but Andrew Luck.

Wilson joined a team that already was pretty good, with a terrific running back and a defense that plays hellacious football at home. RG3 did plenty to lift his team this season, but he was helped by another stud running back (Alfred Morris) who helped take the pressure off him.

What kind of team did Luck inherit? One that went 2-14 a year ago and was clearly the worst team in the league. The roster, other than Luck, looked the same as 2011 from a talent perspective. And yet, Luck did what Peyton Manning did before him: turn the Colts into a contender when their roster told otherwise. He turned Reggie Wayne back into a star and made threats out of T.Y. Hilton and Donnie Avery. His best running back was Vick Ballard, who clearly is not in the league of Marshawn Lynch and Alfred Morris. And THIS team, without head coach Chuck Pagano, still got to 10 wins? There's a reason why Luck went No. 1 overall.

RG3, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson: Who deserves rookie award? - NFL.com

 

[elocomotive]

You do know that Indy had the worst record in the league last season right? Did you know they gave up over 60 points in a game last year? Peyton Manning was the Colts. Without him they were beyond awful. The Redskins actually played pretty well last year with Beck & Grossman as their QB's. They played in a number of close games. So it shouldn't be such a big surprise that the Redskins were improved this season. Does RG3 deserve a lot of credit for that? ABSOLUTELY!! So does Morris & the OL blocking for them both. It didn't hurt to play in the NFC East either. The Bears went 10-6 & missed the playoffs, their coach was fired because of it.

What part of shut the fuck up are you not getting?

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

What part of shut the fuck up are you not getting?

LOL!!

This is a message board. Get a grip.

 

[elocomotive]

LOL!!

This is a message board. Get a grip.

Stop trolling and going off on tangents that weren't related. Stop being a hater because your teams all suck ass. I didn't want the debate, but I'm happy to end it.

All the arguments for Luck are based on record, and all of teams we are talking about had great turnarounds this year, and it is a team game, so I don't use record highly in the calculations for an individual award. You can look at yardage, and picks, and TDs, and attempts, etc. The great thing is there is a measure for that - it's called passer rating. I'm not arguing it's a perfect measure, but RG3/Wilson FAR surpass Luck when all things are considered.

RG3 leads all rookies this year in that category. He leads all rookies all time in that category. On top of that, rushing yards are not included in passer rating. RG3 leads all rookies in that category. He leads all rookies all time in that category. So given that he has the best passer rating and the best rushing impact of all rookies in the history of the NFL, it would seem insane not to give him ROTY. Especially when his top TE was out the whole year and his top WR was out half the year on a team with a mediocre receiving corp. at best even when they were healthy. If you want to talk about the limitations of their teams as inhibitors to success, then you have to stop talking about the Redskins as a talented team or the offensive line as being good. They aren't either of those things and if you knew the Redskins at all, you would understand that. Luck faded the last half of the year. Wilson played a very limited role the first half. RG3 was a rock all year and the numbers show that.

You want to believe Wilson or Luck deserves it, that's fine. I won't stop anyone from being wrong.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

This is what I think of QBR & other so called ratings.

In week 5 of 2011 Aaron Rodgers was given a lower QBR than Tim Tebow.

Rodgers completed 26 of 39 passes, he threw for 296 yards & 2 TD's. Meanwhile Tebow was 4 of 10 for 79 yards 1 TD. Tebow also had 6 rushes for 38 yards & 1 TD in a loss to the Chargers.

RG3 has a better passer ratiing than Luck because he didn't pass the ball nearly as many times. He didn't have too. He had a running game. Morris broke the Redskins rookie rushing record. He finished the year 3rd or 4th all time in rookie rushing yards. Where's his R.O.Y. love?

 

[elocomotive]

In week 5 of 2011 Aaron Rodgers was given a lower QBR than Tim Tebow.

So what? That is one week. Irrelevant argument.

RG3 has a better passer ratiing than Luck because he didn't pass the ball nearly as many times. He didn't have too. He had a running game. Morris broke the Redskins rookie rushing record.

Yes, and Morris doesn't come close to that without RG3 freezing up every DE they played against this year, not to mention a lot of the running game WAS RG3 himself. Should he be penalized for that?

Anymore arguments that are easy to punch a hole in?

 

[Bizzle McDizzle]

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

So what? That is one week. Irrelevant argument.



Yes, and Morris doesn't come close to that without RG3 freezing up every DE they played against this year.

Anymore arguments that are easy to punch a hole in?

Tebow went 4 for 10. He didn't even complete 50% of his passes. He threw the football a total of ten times. That's it. LOL. QBR is the big stat that all the so called experts are pointing too & it's absolutely meaningless.

So the Offensive line gets little credit for Morris rushing for over 1600 yards? Give me a break.

 

[Darkstone42]

QB rating is only a good stat over a large sample. I'm not even certain if one season is a sufficient sample, but it at least gets close.

I don't think you can dismiss Luck as a rookie of the year choice since the Colts offense was him. They didn't have much of a running game, and Luck threw the ball 627 times. It's a lot easier for defenders to sit back on a guy when the running game isn't a threat, so I think his interception total is inflated, which significantly deflates his QB rating.

The argument between Wilson and RG3 is interesting. Their numbers are very similar across the board. RG3 has fewer interceptions and Wilson has more touchdowns. Everything else, within error, is the same. RG3 did more with his legs, but as passers, the two were very similar. The edge to RG3, in my opinion, is very slight here because I put more weight on throwing touchdowns than not throwing interceptions (so I consider Wilson the better passer), but the edge in running is just large enough in favor of RG3 to accound for that difference.

I would argue, then, that Luck was the most integral to his team's offense and success, but RG3 and Wilson both performed better in a vacuum. Since rookie of the year, to me, is an award for the best performer among rookies, RG3 gets my nod; however, if it was a rookie MVP, Luck would make a very strong case, since I honestly think if you take him away, his team is a cellar dweller, but I don't see that as the case for RG3 or Wilson on their teams. I see them losing more games, maybe missing the playoffs, but I don't think the impact would be as great.