Tom Cable

[HaroldSeattle]

Cable has rebuilt the OL into a respectable unit, but a I keep having the terrible thought that he doesn't seem to know how to coach pass blocking. Russell Wilson has manage to mask this weakness and it true we are missing a lot of OL, but even when the starters were healthy, the pass blocking was below par.
Please tell me I'm wrong, because I want to be wrong. It seems he likes Seahawks to draft road graders (hopefully they'll be road graders) at the expense of pass blocking. Maybe I'm just flustrated at seeing Russell Wilson having to run for his life lately...except it's not just lately.

Thoughts?

 

[SeattleCoug]

I think its tough to judge since we are missing both offensive tackles and Unger also missed time.

LT is huge when it comes to pass blocking and as much as Mcquistin brings on the line he just isn't a LT, he is a G. I think getting Unger back you will see improvement there and I think Bowie is getting better every week and I think he unseats Breno even if Breno comes back healthy.

Carpenter and Sweezy have shown great ability to run block but both struggle with pass blocking. I mean Sweezy is still learning to be an OL and Carpenter may just never be that guy.

Not claiming to be an expert but its my two cents.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

You hear a lot complaints about Bevell as OC, I often wonder how he would do if the Seahawks pass blocked as well as they run block. Yet you never hear anyone bring up Cable who's not only in charge of the OL, but is assistant head coach, who if I understand correctly has a lot input in the play calling.

 

[blstoker]

Another unit with multiple Pro Bowlers and All Pros, the Seahawks line is built to run block, and still lets too many guys through on the pass. Wilson's lack of sacks had more to do with his escapability than the time that the line gave him. The entire line plays nasty, but none nastier than Giacomini, if he can cut down on after the whistle penalties, he could be one of the better RTs in the league.

This was from my offense preview earlier this season. I've always felt that pass blocking has been suspect, which is why I never liked the Flynn signing. Okung has shown he can be a real beast in pass protection, but everyone else has major issues at times, especially the guards. When we get Giacomini and Okung back, we'll go from being one of the league's worst pass blocking lines to average to slightly above average.

I also see Wilson's holding the ball and the WRs failure to get serparation as factors of Wilson being pressured on most passing plays.

And, FYI, this has been my 1000th post!!!

 

[Banned 10x]

This was from my offense preview earlier this season. I've always felt that pass blocking has been suspect, which is why I never liked the Flynn signing. Okung has shown he can be a real beast in pass protection, but everyone else has major issues at times, especially the guards. When we get Giacomini and Okung back, we'll go from being one of the league's worst pass blocking lines to average to slightly above average.

I also see Wilson's holding the ball and the WRs failure to get serparation as factors of Wilson being pressured on most passing plays.

And, FYI, this has been my 1000th post!!!

That's a great point, even when the pass blocking has been better than average it seems our WR's aren't getting any type of separation.

 

[Destroydacre]

I think a lot of it stems from the fact that a lot of the guys on the line just aren't very good. IMO McQuistan, Sweezy, Giacomini and Carpenter are all mediocre at best when it comes to pass protection. To be perfectly honest I think moving Sweezy to O line is a failure and the Seahawks need to look for an upgrade there. The other three are alright at times, but put them up against premier pass rushing linemen and their flaws really start to show. I think Tom Cable deserves quite a bit a praise for what he's been able to get out of the O-line. Seattle is 5-1 with a few games where your best lineman is Paul McQuistan. That's impressive. I'm not sure there's many coaches out there that can pull that off. Not to be forgotten, Russell Wilson's escapability helps to bail out the O-line a lot as well.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

This was from my offense preview earlier this season. I've always felt that pass blocking has been suspect, which is why I never liked the Flynn signing. Okung has shown he can be a real beast in pass protection, but everyone else has major issues at times, especially the guards. When we get Giacomini and Okung back, we'll go from being one of the league's worst pass blocking lines to average to slightly above average.

I also see Wilson's holding the ball and the WRs failure to get serparation as factors of Wilson being pressured on most passing plays.

And, FYI, this has been my 1000th post!!!

Congrads on getting your 1000th post!

Getting back to Cable. Our best two linemen are Okung and Unger, both were here before Cable. Cable guys Carpenter, Moffitt, Giacomini. Not that impressed with his judgement of OL prospects. We've all been unset with stupid penalties, which unit has the most stupid penalties? The OL and that's Cable responsibility. Yet you never hear anyone mention him, when penalties come up.
Talk about hamstringing your OC, your OL make numerous stupid penalties and can't pass block for spit, even when healthy. Add in that he's the OC boss, as assistant head coach with a history with Pete. I tried to find the article that talked about Cable input with the play calling, but could not find it. It was a old article and may not be relevant now any way.
Yeah, our WR have a hard time getting separation, but if our OL could pass block that could help fix the problem some, don't you think?

I rarely bring up negative thoughts like these, but I've been thinking about Cable for a while and have never heard him criticized here on SportsHoopla or else where and just felt it needed to be brought up.

Kind of a awkward word spot for Bevell IMO. With Cable actually having more pull then he does with Pete. I'd be fine with bringing in someone new if he was allowed to bring in his own coaches and actually do the play calling.

OK. I got that off my chest.

 

[FirebreathingMonkey]

Giacomini's return date still a question for Seahawks - 710sports.com

Hopefully we can start getting the line back even if there not the best in the league, an average online (pass protection) can improve greatly with consistency. And at the end of the day 5-1 is hard to be too displeased.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Yeah, I should not be complaining, it's just something I've been thinking about for a long while and had to unload.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

That's a great point, even when the pass blocking has been better than average it seems our WR's aren't getting any type of separation.

When was that?

 

[dude82]

According to the injury report, Miller practiced and could very well play on Thursday, so that should help, but we're not going to be able to really fix things until Okung and Giacomini come back. One of these days the offensive line carousel has to stop. It seems like we've been talking about significant line injuries every year since 2006. Every year it seems like we lose 2 or 3 guys for weeks at a time. That's gotta stop at some point, right?

edit: For that reason, I think it's hard to criticize Cable too much for the poor pass protection. I've heard on numerous occasions that it's easier for linemen to run block than it is for them to pass block and if that's true, it's gotta be even harder to pass block when you don't know who you're going to be lining up next to from week-to-week. It's hard not to factor injuries heavily into this discussion.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

According to the injury report, Miller practiced and could very well play on Thursday, so that should help, but we're not going to be able to really fix things until Okung and Giacomini come back. One of these days the offensive line carousel has to stop. It seems like we've been talking about significant line injuries every year since 2006. Every year it seems like we lose 2 or 3 guys for weeks at a time. That's gotta stop at some point, right?

edit: For that reason, I think it's hard to criticize Cable too much for the poor pass protection. I've heard on numerous occasions that it's easier for linemen to run block than it is for them to pass block and if that's true, it's gotta be even harder to pass block when you don't know who you're going to be lining up next to from week-to-week. It's hard not to factor injuries heavily into this discussion.

Yes injuries on the OL have haunted us for the longest time. So there that, but one last shot at Cable, since he's been OL coach have we ever added a player on the OL who forte is is pass blocking? I can't think of one.

 

[blstoker]

Yes injuries on the OL have haunted us for the longest time. So there that, but one last shot at Cable, since he's been OL coach have we ever added a player on the OL who forte is is pass blocking? I can't think of one.

Ok, I agree. He isn't good at pass protection. Let's look at his time in the NFL:

2006 Atlanta - 32nd passing, 1st rushing, 47 sacks allowed [10.2%] (Michael Vick)
2007 Oakland - 31st passing, 6th rushing, 41 sacks allowed [8.3%] (Josh McCown, Daunte Culpepper, JaMarcus Russell)
2008 Oakland - 32nd passing, 10th rushing, 39 sacks allowed [8.5%] (JaMarcus Russell, Andrew Walter)
2009 Oakland - 29th passing, 21st rushing, 49 sacks allowed [9.2%] (JaMarcus Russell, Bruce Gradkowski, Charlie Frye)
2010 Oakland - 23rd passing, 2nd rushing, 44 sacks allowed [8.2%] (Jason Campbell, Bruce Gradkowski)
2011 Seattle - 22nd passing, 21st rushing, 50 sacks allowed [8.9%] (Tarvaris Jackson, Charlie Whitehurst)
2012 Seattle - 27th passing, 3rd rushing, 33 sacks allowed [7.5%] (Russell Wilson)
2013 Seattle* - 24th passing, 2nd rushing, 17 sacks allowed [9.3%] (Russell Wilson)

Historically, his teams have been much better running teams than passing teams (he was OLine coach every year except 09-10 when he was head coach). Average passing attack: 27.5. Average rushing attack: 8.25. There more to it that just the line, but it has been a pattern the 8 years he's been in the NFL.

As an example Peyton Manning has a career 3.1% sacks on drop backs, Cable's best season has been Wilson's 7.5% last year.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Ok, I agree. He isn't good at pass protection. Let's look at his time in the NFL:

2006 Atlanta - 32nd passing, 1st rushing, 47 sacks allowed [10.2%] (Michael Vick)
2007 Oakland - 31st passing, 6th rushing, 41 sacks allowed [8.3%] (Josh McCown, Daunte Culpepper, JaMarcus Russell)
2008 Oakland - 32nd passing, 10th rushing, 39 sacks allowed [8.5%] (JaMarcus Russell, Andrew Walter)
2009 Oakland - 29th passing, 21st rushing, 49 sacks allowed [9.2%] (JaMarcus Russell, Bruce Gradkowski, Charlie Frye)
2010 Oakland - 23rd passing, 2nd rushing, 44 sacks allowed [8.2%] (Jason Campbell, Bruce Gradkowski)
2011 Seattle - 22nd passing, 21st rushing, 50 sacks allowed [8.9%] (Tarvaris Jackson, Charlie Whitehurst)
2012 Seattle - 27th passing, 3rd rushing, 33 sacks allowed [7.5%] (Russell Wilson)
2013 Seattle* - 24th passing, 2nd rushing, 17 sacks allowed [9.3%] (Russell Wilson)

Historically, his teams have been much better running teams than passing teams (he was OLine coach every year except 09-10 when he was head coach). Average passing attack: 27.5. Average rushing attack: 8.25. There more to it that just the line, but it has been a pattern the 8 years he's been in the NFL.

As an example Peyton Manning has a career 3.1% sacks on drop backs, Cable's best season has been Wilson's 7.5% last year.

Thanks for providing the stats to back my claim against Cable.

I here by appoint you the Seahawks SportsHoopla board stat guru.

Now i got a stat challenge for you. Just how many penalties have Cables OLs committed vs others over the years. I know with out stats that the Seahawks OL commit a lot of penalties, and I believe when he coached the Raiders, the OL also had that problem and I bet it has always has been a problem. If you can pull those stats. please do.

The Seahawks Offense coaching staff has a weird structure, where the Ol coach actually out ranks the OC. To me, that is where the problems with play calling and over all offensive problems begin.

Look at last year, where the offense was run,run, then pass on third and long. Tell me that wasn't Tom Cable calling the shots. Stat guru was that the norm for Bevell before coming to the Seahawks? I really don't need stats to tell me it wasn't, but stats will back me up.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I haven't read any of the posts in the thread yet but my initial response to Tom Cable's performance as offensive line coach is that he has done a good job.

Let me explain why:

Although before Cable got the job Russell Okung was injury prone, he was also around league average/above average. I feel like during his time here Okung has improved a lot, same goes for Max Unger.

But the improvement of those two guys is not what I want to highlight about Cable.

Do you guys realize the tier of players we are starting on our offensive line? Breno Giacomini and Paul McQuistan were career journeymen before coming to Seattle. Don't get me wrong, Giacomini and McQuistan are not ideal starting offensive linemen but they are not horrible either. To be able to pick up two guys like that off the street that had no interest from other teams and turn them into serviceable starters is relatively impressive, you're talking about two guys who basically floated around as 2nd and 3rd stringers on other rosters.

It is worth noting that a lot of Seahawk fans were ready to call Russell Okung a bust, not just because of the injury concerns but due to the fact that his play looked average/above average, not Walter Jones tier like a lot of people had hoped. Since then he has stepped up as one of the better left tackles in the NFL.

When Unger came into the league he was averagish and has stepped up to become one of the better centers in the NFL.

Therefore I think that with the extremely minimal amount of talent that Cable has to work with he has done relatively well. I think people forget the players the Seahawks have to work with on the offensive line outside of Okung and Unger.

As for Carpenter, I've made my opinions well known about how I feel about him and I don't even think Tom Cable can fix him. He will always be a terrible pass blocker, but has potential as a run blocker inside.

 

[seahawksfan234]

TLDR: Tom Cable has taken 2nd and 3rd string players (Giacomini and McQuistan) and turned them into serviceable starters (i.e. guys you'd like to replace but you're not going to panic to replace them in the meantime)

The guy is working with very, very little talent.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

I've never understood the "hype" ( if you could call it that) surrounding Cable. He was a disaster in Oakland and didn't do great things anywhere. Maybe it's just hard for me to like him because he drove the U of I football program into the ground after he took over. Still hasn't recovered.

Anyway I'm glad somebody brought this up because the O-Line has been shaky in pass protection for awhile now. As blstoker pointed out his teams don't traditionally pass well.

I still think Cable gets too much credit for the run game. The change of scheme to zone blocking has more to do with it than anything. Anybody coaching that scheme would have likely had the same results here. This particular scheme just works better with the guys on the O-line. That, and the fact that the Seahawks have a Pro-Bowl runningback and now two Pro-Bowlers starting on the line. But the main thing I think we're overlooking here is the fact that the WRs just can't get open. If no one gets any separation your QB is going to see a lot of pressure.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I've never understood the "hype" ( if you could call it that) surrounding Cable. He was a disaster in Oakland and didn't do great things anywhere. Maybe it's just hard for me to like him because he drove the U of I football program into the ground after he took over. Still hasn't recovered.

Anyway I'm glad somebody brought this up because the O-Line has been shaky in pass protection for awhile now. As blstoker pointed out his teams don't traditionally pass well.

I still think Cable gets too much credit for the run game. The change of scheme to zone blocking has more to do with it than anything. Anybody coaching that scheme would have likely had the same results here. This particular scheme just works better with the guys on the O-line. That, and the fact that the Seahawks have a Pro-Bowl runningback and now two Pro-Bowlers starting on the line. But the main thing I think we're overlooking here is the fact that the WRs just can't get open. If no one gets any separation your QB is going to see a lot of pressure.

I disagree that Cable was a disaster in Oakland.

He improved the team's win total each year he was there:
2008: 4-8
2009: 5-11
2010: 8-8

Obviously not an impressive record but with the roster Al Davis was constructing 8-8 is not bad for the Oakland Raiders. They have not win more than 8 games since his departure and have considerable regressed since Cable's firing.

Not to mention there was a lot of public outcry by Raiders players due to Cable's firing. There was a lot of speculation he was the reason why the Seahawks were able to obtain Zach Miller and Robert Gallery. He had improved the team and things were looking up.

I don't have to remind you that the 2010 Oakland Raiders starting quarterback was a combination of Jason Campbell and Bruce Gradkowski. Not the greatest group in the world.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

I disagree that Cable was a disaster in Oakland.

He improved the team's win total each year he was there:
2008: 4-8
2009: 5-11
2010: 8-8

Obviously not an impressive record but with the roster Al Davis was constructing 8-8 is not bad for the Oakland Raiders. They have not win more than 8 games since his departure and have considerable regressed since Cable's firing.

Not to mention there was a lot of public outcry by Raiders players due to Cable's firing. There was a lot of speculation he was the reason why the Seahawks were able to obtain Zach Miller and Robert Gallery. He had improved the team and things were looking up.

I don't have to remind you that the 2010 Oakland Raiders starting quarterback was a combination of Jason Campbell and Bruce Gradkowski. Not the greatest group in the world.

I was more referring to the whole punching of the assistant coach thing along with the average record. He definitely did improve the raiders a bit though. I'll give you that.

 

[blstoker]

I've only found back to 2009, but here we go:

2009: 117 total penalties - 33 OLine
2010: 148 total penalties - 47 OLine
2011: 137 total penalties - 45 OLine
2012: 120 total penalties - 43 OLine
2013: 45 total penalties - 17 OLine

Now, I had to go through each individuals penalties to get the OLine numbers, and I am really not gonna take the time to do that for every one of the other 31 teams, sorry. But, each of those years was at least 26th in the league in penalties, with 2010 & 11 being 32nd and 31st respectively (as in 32nd is most penalized). So I'm pretty sure that the OLine penalties will correspond with those rankings.

I'm not saying that Cable is a bust, just a little one sided in his abilities as a line coach. We have the personnel to make it work in his favor right now, but we do tend to suffer some when it comes time to pass (or at least we would more if our QB wasn't as elusive as Wilson is).

234, McQuistan was a Cable guy in Oakland (2006-2009) and wasn't too bad until injuries ended his career there. Not surprising to see him in Seattle (like Miller and Gallery) after Cable came here.I'm sure he would have had more than 12 starts in Oakland had he stayed healthy.

But, yeah, Cable has taken some cast offs and no namers and made them contributors, but I wonder if he's doing so to increase the idea that he can coach anyone, and thus tries to find those types to plug in.

He's actually proven that he can coach just about anybody to run block, but it's pass blocking that seems to be the achilles heel for this line, even when healthy.

I mean, Sweezy has been impressive when you think he was a DT when drafted last year. But, even with all the injuries, he's the only guy starting in the position he was starting in at the beginning of the year, and he is the one who is consistently getting beat more than anyone else.