tOfficial Post Here If NCAA is Investigating

[jonvi]

Syracuse, N.Y. — Syracuse athletic officials will spend at least the next two days in an NCAA hearing before the Committee on Infractions, hearing evidence of alleged rule violations committed by the school.

The NCAA's investigation was wide, covering a variety of topics. The true scope and depth of the allegations is unclear, and the university and NCAA have stayed silent.

Here's a primer to help you heading into the hearing.

Why has Syracuse been summoned to an NCAA hearing?

A variety of issues spanning a number of years. We know they've investigated academic misconduct, which Jim Boeheim referenced in his book, as well as inquired about extra benefits and a failure in the basketball program to adhere to its drug policy.

Who will be there?
Lots of people. Basketball coach Jim Boeheim, athletic director Daryl Gross and chancellor Kent Syverud are among the most high-profile names. Assistant coach Mike Hopkins is going. There will be plenty of lawyers, of course. A number of former employees in academic services have been invited but will likely elect not to attend.

What happens at a hearing?
The NCAA is done investigating. The hearing is the school's final opportunity to hear the charges the NCAA believes occurred and either refute them or offer reasons why they aren't as bad as they sound. This can include reasons mistakes were made or things put in place to keep them from occurring in the future.

How long will the hearing last?
At least two days. Thursday and Friday for sure.

What kinds of penalties could Syracuse face?
It depends on which allegations the Committee on Infractions believes have occurred. A period of probation seems almost assured. If charges of academic fraud are proven, Syracuse likely will lose scholarships. If ineligible players were used, wins and records could be vacated.

Wins and records? Is the 2003 national championship in jeopardy?
If Syracuse was found to have used ineligible players during that season, or especially in that game, it's a possibility.

That's 11 years ago. Hasn't the statute of limitations run out?
The NCAA does have a four-year statute of limitations, but there are exceptions if the misconduct continues into the current four-year window. The NCAA can also ignore its statute of limitations when attempting to show a pattern of behavior.

Are you talking about a "lack of institutional control?"
Not necessarily. Given the scope of the investigation it's a possibility. But there is a "failure to monitor" charge that isn't considered as serious that is more likely.

Do the NCAA sanctions to the athletic program in 1992, and the fact that Boeheim is still the basketball coach, matter in this investigation?
Very little. The NCAA considers repeat offenders to be those who have committed violations twice within a five-year window or while the program was on probation. It could become relevant if any of the allegations are similar to those that occurred previously. It will make any defense pleading ignorance less effective.

The football program is part of the investigation. How big of a part?
It appears to be a minor component. Hank Leo, one of the former tutors and a prominent figure in Oneida, was invited to attend the hearing. He worked with the football program previously but not since Doug Marrone or Scott Shafer have been coaching. The football program's involvement appears to be part of the NCAA's push to prove a pattern of violations occurred.

The athletic department already tried to fix things by reorganizing the academic support staff. How does that factor into the NCAA's decision?
It will help Syracuse's push for leniency. But the alleged violations were not found immediately and occurred over a huge timespan. If those allegations are found to have occurred, making a case that the school did a good job monitoring itself will be nearly impossible.

When will we know what penalties, if any, Syracuse will face?
The penalties are usually announced in an NCAA report between 30 and 60 days after the hearing is held but that timeframe is fluid. If Syracuse appeals the decision, it could take longer.

How do those penalties get decided?
It's an arbitrary process. The NCAA Committee on Infractions will judge what has occurred and then offer punishments they feel are appropriate. It will likely take some historical precedent into account. The committee is made up of current and former athletic officials, former coaches, lawyers and former academic officials.

How worried should a Syracuse fan be about that final decision?
Syracuse basketball has a strong name and fanbase, but there is a possibility of scholarship losses, postseason bans and other punishments that will make the next two or three seasons more difficult.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

Thanks for the update jonvi. I'm sure watching this unfold isn't a pleasant experience for you.

 

[jonvi]

Thanks for the update jonvi. I'm sure watching this unfold isn't a pleasant experience for you.

Thanks....but right now I'm not threatened by it. SU's had scholly's removed before. Now if someone from the NC team is involved. And that is vacated...that would bum me out.

For now though....I'm in a wait and see mode.

 

[uncfan103]

My team is investigating themselves.

 

[uncfan103]

From what I understand, the "paper" classes started in the spring semester of 1993. I think eligibility is based on the academics of the previous semester, so even if enrolled in the fake classes for the spring semester, it wouldn't have effected the eligibility of any athletes for the 92-93 season.

But again, it's the NCAA we're talking about so they might strip all three vacate a few decades worth of wins, and give 'em the death penalty for a few years. Or they might be given a very firmly worded letter telling them not to [strike]get caught doing that[/strike] do that again.

However, I think the precedent was set with UCLA so realistically I don't think they'll lose any championships. With all the dirt that came to surface about Sam Gilbert after the fact, if the NCAA was ever going to vacate a championship they would have pulled the trigger on them decades ago.

My guess is they'll narrow the scope to more recent years and if they have to vacate anything it will all be after 2009. I'm sure something about "We looked at evidence going back to the 90's but we couldn't find anything conclusive earlier than 2010" will be included as well to make sure it looks like everything was done "fairly." I'd think a few years of probation, maybe some scholarship reductions, and possible a few vacated games but that'll be it. It looks like the coaching staff already has their plausible deniability all lined up and ready to go, so I doubt you'll see any 'show cause' penalty on Ol' Roy either.

Hard to say with much certainty regarding the Cuse thing since there isn't much concrete info on what the scope of the investigation was, but I doubt they'll see anything major either.

I tried mentioning during the Butch Davis years that Carolina wouldn't fire Roy Williams if the basketball was in the same type of trouble as the football team. Everyone tried to tell me the basketball team wasn't an issue, but that Roy would be treated the same as Butch Davis. We're about to find out. Plausible deniability didn't help Butch. And, I would say Butch handled the paper classes and everything else better than Ol' Roy.

 

[douggie]

I am amazed that Roy hasn't been fired. He either knew all that was going on and should be let go immediately for that just like Davis, or, it all happened on his watch and he should have known about it. Either way he's a slacker.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

Ace Rothstein: [grows more irritated] Ward, you're pissing me off. Now you're insulting my intelligence; what you think I am, a fuckin' idiot? You know goddamn well that someone had to get into those machines and set those fuckin' reels. The probability of one four-reel machine is a million and a half to one; the probability of three machines in a row; it's in the billions! It cannot happen, would not happen, you fuckin' momo! What's the matter with you? Didn't you see you were being set up on the second win?
Don Ward: I really think...
Ace Rothstein: [interrupts] Wait! You didn't see that you were being set up on the second win?
Don Ward: I really think you're overreacting...
Ace Rothstein: Listen, you fuckin' yokel, I've had it with you. I've been carrying your ass in this place ever since I got here. Get your ass and get your things and get out of here.
Don Ward: You're firing me?
Ace Rothstein: I'm firing you. No, I'm not firing, I'm firing you, ya...
Don Ward: You might regret this, Mr. Rothstein.
Ace Rothstein: I'll regret it even more if I keep you on.
Don Ward: This is not the way to treat people.
Ace Rothstein: Listen, if you didn't know you were being scammed you're too fuckin' dumb to keep this job, if you did know, you were in on it. Either way, YOU'RE OUT! Get out. Go on, let's go.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

Finally found the video...

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcZHSGyos6g[/YOUTUBE]

 

[douggie]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcZHSGyos6g]CASINO(1995) ACE FIRES IDIOT COWBOY - YouTube[/ame]

Here it is Trolly.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

Yup. That's the one. Not sure why my link didn't work.

 

[uncfan103]

I am amazed that Roy hasn't been fired. He either knew all that was going on and should be let go immediately for that just like Davis, or, it all happened on his watch and he should have known about it. Either way he's a slacker.

That's ridiculous. How do you expect a basketball coach to know that players are taking classes that are non existent if it's a problem that was created by the head of the academic department? How would Coach K know, or even find out, if the person in charge of the sociology department at Duke were giving out grades?

Ken Spenner could have handed out grades and it would've been impossible for Coach K to ever find out.

 

[douggie]

For 18 years? How could he have known since he is perfect?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkZfLl3ZTJ0]Roy Williams is perfect - YouTube[/ame]

Roy Williams of Nazareth.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

That's ridiculous. How do you expect a basketball coach to know that players are taking classes that are non existent if it's a problem that was created by the head of the academic department? How would Coach K know, or even find out, if the person in charge of the sociology department at Duke were giving out grades?

Ken Spenner could have handed out grades and it would've been impossible for Coach K to ever find out.

Impossible to find out? I'm all for "plausible deniability" but that's just horse shit.

If Roy had wanted to know what classes his players were taking he could have easily checked into it. He said as much himself about questioning all the AFAM classes his players were taking, but didn't seem to care enough to actually check into it.

But the independent report made available to the public Wednesday does detail how Williams eventually acknowledged to investigators that, yes, he had early suspicions about his players' heavy use of classes in the Afro-American Studies Department, which was littered with paper courses.

Do I think he knew what was going on? Doubtful, as it seems pretty clear that nobody sent him a memo that said "Dear Roy, we're enrolling all of your players in sham classes that are graded by the janitor to make sure they stay eligible." But I think he had a pretty good idea something was amiss.

Now maybe there are some privacy laws that I'm not aware of that prevent the coach from seeing anything on a players transcript beyond their GPA, and he had no ability to even know what classes his players were taking. But I doubt it. As stated above, Roy knew that a lot of his players were taking AFAM classes so he obviously had access to some player academic info.

If it was a couple of players and a couple of classes I might buy not knowing, or not being suspicious about it. But it's been going on there since before he was even there, and he clearly pickup up on something. That leads me to believe that he either a) knew more than he's letting on, b) he intentionally kept himself in the dark so he wouldn't know more, or c) knew exactly what he says he did, and wasn't smart enough to recognize it for what it was. I ask you, which is worse?

 

[uncfan103]

What was amiss? I'm sure he, like every coach in America, knew his players were taking easy classes. He's suoposed to check into these classes to make sure the academic department is appropriately doing their job? Lol

Like I said, if Ben Spenner did the same thing at Duke, is Coach K supposed to go behind his back to make sure he isn't giving out sham grades? no. That's why too much responsibility for a basketball coach to be overseeing academics at the university.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

He's not going to check into the suspicious classes for one simple reason: deniability.

And that is a problem. It's his program. It's his obligation to check into "suspicious" things. Not look the other way.

If you were suspicious that your wife or girlfriend was cheating on you would you look into it? That's not really your responsibility though.

It's not the coach's responsibility to micromanage everything. I don't expect Williams or any other coach to watch players do their homework or go to class. But he is ultimately responsible for making sure his players stay academically eligible, and it wouldn't have taken much at all with regards to due diligence to find out that those courses went beyond just "easy."

Of course you'd expect that the coaches would say "stop hanging around convicted felons with ties to the program" the first time that news broke that a player was connected to Fats Thomas. Actually, you probably wouldn't expect that, but I would.

 

[douggie]

Job description when Roy Williams was hired:

(b)recruiting and retaining only academically qualified student-athletes, promoting and encouraging academic progress, in conjunction with faculty and UNIVERSITY, of such student-athletes toward graduation in defined degree programs;"

"(d) maintaining full responsibility for the supervision and conduct of assistant coaches and staff and their activities, including maintaining compliance by such assistants coaches and staff and their activities, with all applicable rules, regulations, and policies of and applicable to UNIVERSITY and with Constitution, bylaws, legislation, and regulations of the ACC and NCAA, as such be amended from time to time. This responsibility shall include, without limitation, providing annual evaluation of such assistant coaches and staff."

Whether Roy knew or any of his staff knew and did nothing, it is still Roy's responsibility to know.

 

[jonvi]

Syracuse has declined to go into specifics, but the words provide a partial road map on the NCAA's investigation from the school's point of view.

We'll take the statement section by section.

"Earlier today, Syracuse University concluded a hearing before the NCAA Committee on Infractions. The hearing completes a cooperative process stemming from the University's self-report of potential NCAA violations."

Finally, now that the hearing is over, Syracuse admits there was an NCAA hearing and investigation. All that remains is the NCAA's public report, which will likely come in 30-60 days. It will include any violations that the Committee on Infractions believes occurred and any penalties. If Syracuse is unhappy with the decision, it will have a chance to appeal.

Syracuse says the investigation stems from self-reporting. That could earn Syracuse points from the Committee on Infractions when it comes to potential penalties. However, it's not known how much of the case against Syracuse was self-reported issues and how much NCAA investigators found on their own.

The length of the hearing and basketball coach Jim Boeheim's previous statement that SU would have its "documentation" is a sign SU disagreed with many of the accusations

***​

"None of the potential violations involve current-student athletes."

No current players will have to miss games, so that's one fewer thing for fans to worry about.
Syracuse did not acknowledge any violations other than the self-reported ones, instead using the terms "potential NCAA violations" and "issues."

It's unclear if the NCAA found its own "issues" while investigating. The report will eventually determine whether Syracuse's missteps were issues or NCAA violations.

It indicates that potentially minor infractions such as Ashton Broyld holding promotional signs for a local radio station were so minor that they were dealt with separately or did not rise to violation level.

***​

"The issues regarding men's basketball and football occurred years ago, with the exception of certain issues in basketball occurring between 2010 and early 2012."

The sentence lends credibility to many previous reports about the investigation.
Yahoo Sports had indicated that Syracuse's basketball program failed to adhere to its own drug policy as early as 2001. The football progam's issues are believed to pre-date both Doug Marrone and Scott Shafer.

Hank Leo, who worked in academic services, was invited to the hearing and the Oneida Dispatch reported he planned to attend. Leo worked with the football program when it was coached by Paul Pasqualoni and Greg Robinson.

Boeheim's upcoming biography indicated that part of the investigation centered on the academics of Fab Melo. Melo played between 2010 and 2012, matching the men's basketball time frame. Three others who were summoned to the meeting — Stan Kissel, former director of basketball operations; Debora Belanger, a former mentor in student-athlete support services; and Kristie Smith, a former student-athlete tutor — all worked with the men's basketball program when Melo was suspended.

It's not clear what other "issues" may have occurred years ago.

ESPN has reported that Syracuse's hearing also included issues with extra benefits. It's unclear what that component of the case centers around.

***​

"Since first self-reporting to the NCAA in 2007, the University, in partnership with the Department of Athletics, has implemented a series of best practices, reformed and strengthened existing policies and procedures, and realigned and improved a range of student-athlete support services."
Syracuse had publicly admitted to self-reporting at least once in recent years, when the school acknowledged "issues with the drug testing."

Syracuse overhauled its academic support services following Melo's academic issues, with four members of student-athletics services leaving the school and getting reassigned. When James Southerland was suspended in late 2012, the university credited increased monitoring. The NCAA generally looks favorably on schools that make proactive changes.

The University is fully committed to ensuring compliance with all NCAA regulations and maintaining the highest standards of integrity and responsibility. With this significant step in the process complete, we look forward to reviewing the Committee's findings and resolving this matter.

Undoubtedly the athletic department — and the fans — can't wait for this process to be over.

Using Syracuse's statement as a road map, what do we now know about the NCAA's investigation? | syracuse.com

 

[jonvi]

For now....SU is playing this down big time. I can't wait for the NCAA's official report.

 

[douggie]

NCAA will re-open academic fraud investigation at North Carolina - CBSSports.com

It will be the fifth major investigation regarding academic fraud that UNC has been subject to in the past three years.

And now Tyndall:

NCAA investigation could mean bad things for Donnie Tyndall at UT - CBSSports.com

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

I hate to bump this but didn't want to start a new thread either.

jonvi, what's the latest scoop in Syracuse? No news is good news at this point, right? Wasn't the NCAA supposed to get back in a month after the hearing?

And looks like the UNC story is getting buried.