Todd bowles

[cubzzzfanincali]

I actually think the point Joey made is largely the storyline we are going to be fed, unfortunately. When that happens, my rebuttal would be:

Offensive payroll - 3rd in league
offensive yardage - 20th
offensive points - 21st
offensive turnovers - 6th

I don't know...I am definitely firmly in the camp that the offense has been a much bigger letdown than the defense. Yes the defense has been weak, but what did everyone expect? Trestman was brought here for OFFENSE, and management put it's money in offense, and the fact that the offense has sucked only a little less than the defense tells me where the failure has happened.

 

[anotheridiot]

I wouldnt be surprised if Tucker and Kromer go. Nobody seems to bring Kromer up in any conversations, its always Trestmans fault. Who knows what the conversations are between Trestman and Kromer.

You want to fire the poor offense, you fire the coordinator, right, just like we wanted Tucker gone from the defense last year.

Bears simply need to stay healthy on defense, and continuing to resign and add old players is not helping.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

I actually think the point Joey made is largely the storyline we are going to be fed, unfortunately. When that happens, my rebuttal would be:

Offensive payroll - 3rd in league
offensive yardage - 20th
offensive points - 21st
offensive turnovers - 6th

I don't know...I am definitely firmly in the camp that the offense has been a much bigger letdown than the defense. Yes the defense has been weak, but what did everyone expect? Trestman was brought here for OFFENSE, and management put it's money in offense, and the fact that the offense has sucked only a little less than the defense tells me where the failure has happened.

I agree it's been a let down. For sure...
Question- Does anyone think they can rebound? Can Trestman/Kromer get this back on track next year- with a new DC? Some more Oline? Or is the system screwed? And that's the question the top brass should be asking...
With the usual suspects still under contract, I'm thinking they will say YES. Jay has always maintained that it takes up to 3 years in a system... I tend to agree (would have thought we would have seen progress and not setbacks this year, though)
With a returning Cutler, Jeffery, Marshall, Bennett, Forte, Long, Bushrod, Slauson, a healthy Wilson... and the same system/terms/checks/routes... And simply a different "Easy" schedule of a 7-9 or hell 6-10 team.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

no doubt Joey, that really is the most important question. I think that 60% of the answer to that question comes down to Jay Cutler. I guess in that sense I am pretty pessimistic. I am tired of waiting for him to improve and stop making these mistakes. At this point, I am starting to think he is never going to pull it out and become the QB his talents theoretically can make him be. I think the offensive supporting cast, in spite of it's flaws, is basically decent enough to win. The offensive line still has some problems but if we draft well and stay healthy it could probably suffice. And I think the defense is really only a couple of guys away from being serviceable. Not great, but serviceable. To me, it all comes back to Cutler.

So in my opinion, this team has to somehow try to trade Cutler. Sorry, I just do. If we stick with Cutler, we can rearrange coaches yet again all we want, but he is still going to lose us 4 or so extra games a year because of mistakes than we would otherwise. I don't think that's something any coach can fix. Many - very different ones at that - have tried. None has succeeded. If we can somehow trade Cutler, I think 2015 could be rough but put us on a better long-term course.

 

[richig07]

no doubt Joey, that really is the most important question. I think that 60% of the answer to that question comes down to Jay Cutler. I guess in that sense I am pretty pessimistic. I am tired of waiting for him to improve and stop making these mistakes. At this point, I am starting to think he is never going to pull it out and become the QB his talents theoretically can make him be. I think the offensive supporting cast, in spite of it's flaws, is basically decent enough to win. The offensive line still has some problems but if we draft well and stay healthy it could probably suffice. And I think the defense is really only a couple of guys away from being serviceable. Not great, but serviceable. To me, it all comes back to Cutler.

So in my opinion, this team has to somehow try to trade Cutler. Sorry, I just do. If we stick with Cutler, we can rearrange coaches yet again all we want, but he is still going to lose us 4 or so extra games a year because of mistakes than we would otherwise. I don't think that's something any coach can fix. Many - very different ones at that - have tried. None has succeeded. If we can somehow trade Cutler, I think 2015 could be rough but put us on a better long-term course.

Unfortunately, this has become nearly undeniable. If we have an opportunity, we absolutely need to trade Jay.

 

[anotheridiot]

We had a chance to at least make trading cutler interesting for some team if we would have left that 22 million on this years cap hit instead of spreading 2 million over the next two seasons and still owe 15.5 and 16, but its still cheaper than franchising a quarterback..

Also next year Jared Allen has a 1 million dollar base salary and 11.5 million roster bonus. He needs to stay at his turf level the rest of this year or I would dump him too.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

no doubt Joey, that really is the most important question. I think that 60% of the answer to that question comes down to Jay Cutler. I guess in that sense I am pretty pessimistic. I am tired of waiting for him to improve and stop making these mistakes. At this point, I am starting to think he is never going to pull it out and become the QB his talents theoretically can make him be. I think the offensive supporting cast, in spite of it's flaws, is basically decent enough to win. The offensive line still has some problems but if we draft well and stay healthy it could probably suffice. And I think the defense is really only a couple of guys away from being serviceable. Not great, but serviceable. To me, it all comes back to Cutler.

So in my opinion, this team has to somehow try to trade Cutler. Sorry, I just do. If we stick with Cutler, we can rearrange coaches yet again all we want, but he is still going to lose us 4 or so extra games a year because of mistakes than we would otherwise. I don't think that's something any coach can fix. Many - very different ones at that - have tried. None has succeeded. If we can somehow trade Cutler, I think 2015 could be rough but put us on a better long-term course.

Good post- I'm not there yet... but getting closer. The thing that I always come back to is: sure we could dump him/trade him...whatever- but WHAT replaces him? And that, to me, is the bigger unknown/bigger downside for me. I'll take his picks and fumbles if the positive plays continue to improve and go up- TD's, comp %....etc. VS a rookie or lesser player who doesn't have 24+ TD's- I don't believe this team is better w/ "game manager". Or a rookie with no idea if he will pan out.
Can Trestman/Kromer win with Jay Cutler? I'm assuming by your post that you don't think they can- and that's a valid opinion. In that case- Can Trestman/Kromer win with "unknown QB"? If you think YES...then they get to stay- If you think NO... (for all the reasons we've all mentioned w/Trestman's faults) then we have to blow it all up and start over....yet again...ugh.

 

[richig07]

Good post- I'm not there yet... but getting closer. The thing that I always come back to is: sure we could dump him/trade him...whatever- but WHAT replaces him? And that, to me, is the bigger unknown/bigger downside for me. I'll take his picks and fumbles if the positive plays continue to improve and go up- TD's, comp %....etc. VS a rookie or lesser player who doesn't have 24+ TD's- I don't believe this team is better w/ "game manager". Or a rookie with no idea if he will pan out.
Can Trestman/Kromer win with Jay Cutler? I'm assuming by your post that you don't think they can- and that's a valid opinion. In that case- Can Trestman/Kromer win with "unknown QB"? If you think YES...then they get to stay- If you think NO... (for all the reasons we've all mentioned w/Trestman's faults) then we have to blow it all up and start over....yet again...ugh.

I'll take his picks and fumbles if the positive plays continue to improve and go up- TD's, comp %....etc. VS a rookie or lesser player who doesn't have 24+ TD's- I don't believe this team is better w/ "game manager".

I mean… honestly, it's not about "we'll find a better QB IMMEDIATELY!". Statistically, we will not. It's possible, but in all likelihood, teams just aren't that fortunate. Green Bay and Indy are rare exceptions… those bastards.

The point is, that Jay's into his sixth year now. We know what we have, and we've been absolutely stagnant with him for six years, and we know we probably aren't going anywhere. The longer we hold onto him, the longer we set ourselves back. It's probably better to rip-off the band-aid now.

You can go on and on about his 24 TD's, blah blah blah, etc… But at the end of the day, he's singlehandedly made the difference in two and possibly three football games. That's the difference between being in the playoff hunt, and playing meaningless football in December. This isn't anything new really. Outside of 2011, that's been the deal EVERY SINGLE YEAR. He's cost us football games. He's cost us more losses, than he has led picked the team up and carried them to victory. Which is what a franchise QB does, isn't it?

You can keep shuffling in coordinators, you can shuffle players in and out… etc… but at the end of the day, he's the same QB he was six years ago. And while… sure… we've seen in the past that it can be good enough to get you into the playoffs, provided things fall into the right place. It WILL come back to bite you sooner or later. It's only a matter of time.

The separation with Jay is probably inevitable, barring some kind of "come to Jesus" moment happening with him before next season. Even if we have to eat some of his contract in a trade, it's best to get it over with ASAP. Cut our losses with Trestman, Cutler, and call… whatever the hell this was… a loss. Move on.

Look, I'm forever a Cutler fan. I think things could have been different here, provided that we were more prepared for his arrival with better personnel and coaching. I think we "ruined" him a little bit… so to speak. But we'll never know. I hope I'm wrong, and next year if he's here… he comes out blazing hot. But I simply can't see it anymore. I'm done...

 

[JoeyTourettes]

It's sad to lose you rich... You have converted to the darkside! Lol. But I understand it. I'm teetering now. Just don't want to believe it yet. And his contract imo keeps him here for two more years- I don't think we can get out of it.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

I'm sort of in the same boat as Rich. Both of us spent a lot of time fending off the "Bears fans are idiots because they think Cutler is elite" trolls on ESPN in years past. In doing so, we did a lot of Cutler defending. I have really tried to be as fucking patient with the guy as I can. He is our QB after all, and like you all know, goddamn, the Bears have a QB who can actually throw? Why would I not want that?

But he has simply passed my level of patience this year. Especially with the big contract, I just can't take this anymore. It would be fantastic if he suddenly woke up and could make great decisions consistently, but he can't. He isn't. He's not doing it. As his armspeed slows down as he goes through his 30's, his mistake-making is only going to be more exposed.

 

[Wounded Bear]

I'm sort of in the same boat as Rich. Both of us spent a lot of time fending off the "Bears fans are idiots because they think Cutler is elite" trolls on ESPN in years past. In doing so, we did a lot of Cutler defending. I have really tried to be as fucking patient with the guy as I can. He is our QB after all, and like you all know, goddamn, the Bears have a QB who can actually throw? Why would I not want that?

But he has simply passed my level of patience this year. Especially with the big contract, I just can't take this anymore. It would be fantastic if he suddenly woke up and could make great decisions consistently, but he can't. He isn't. He's not doing it. As his armspeed slows down as he goes through his 30's, his mistake-making is only going to be more exposed.

I was with you as one of the biggest defenders of Jay Cutler a few years back. I couldn't stand that people were bashing him when he didn't have an offensive line worthy of a Top 25 NCAA college team. I mean, the dude looked like he was running for his life every time the ball was snapped and for a damn good reason. So that pissed me off about the dumbass fans who didn't seem to want to put that variable into the equation. And to make matters worse, the bad line was coupled with a crew of receivers who would have been, at best, #3 receivers on most other professional rosters....it was a joke. The front office set Jay up to fail and I'm not so certain they didn't ruin him in the long term.

But since we've put together some talent (I did say "some") along the offensive line and since we snagged some decent receivers and since we acquired a decent Tight End and since we already had Matt Forte in the backfield and since we acquired a "quarterback guru" as a Head Coach, I just haven't seen the improvement I have wanted to out of him. So when it appeared that the front office went out of its way to address these concerns and Jay's play remained inconsistent, it only confirmed to me that we either ruined him or he just never did have the mental skills or discipline to play at this level. Time to move on.


Let's hope all of us who are down on Jay are just a bunch of impatient morons and let's hope Jay Cutler, Marc Trestman, and Phil Emery get the last laugh when the Bears get into the playoffs next year....but I honestly don't think that is going to be the case.

 

[richig07]

It's sad to lose you rich... You have converted to the darkside! Lol. But I understand it. I'm teetering now. Just don't want to believe it yet. And his contract imo keeps him here for two more years- I don't think we can get out of it.

Hey, like I said, I am still a Cutler fan. I will pull for the guy for the duration of his NFL career, as long as it isn't hurting the Bears.

I will still defend him on here as well, I mind you. I still think, that even today, he's still dished out an unfair amount of criticism by some people in the midst of all of this.

I still am rooting for him to stay here and succeed. I do not think it is impossible, at all. I just no longer am counting on it in the least. It's just been six years, and my patience is up.

And if he is traded in the off-season, well… he's provided us with a lot of memories, and certainly no one can say it was boring.

 

[bgduece]

I would like to see Rex Ryan hired...he could fix the defense, and stay out of the offenses way.


Marc Trestman is a joke of a coach!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[averagejoe]

[Rex Ryan] did lead the Jets to three AFCCG's. It's more than possible.

That's a good point, Rich, but I just have a hunch that his offensive philosophy (of running the ball) is falling behind the rest of the NFL which focuses on the pass. It will be interesting to see what transpires in the next few weeks.

Someone else mentioned they wouldn't mind either Rex or Rob to coach the D. I don't want Rob if given the choice of the two. But Rob would still be an upgrade to Tucker. (The waterboy would be an upgrade.)


On an unrelated note, I heard Ditka mention on ESPN radio that (paraphrasing) that Trestman is trying to make Cutler a pocket passer which, really, is not Cutler's strength. Ditka feels that Jay is more dangerous out of the pocket. I thought Ditka's point was rather astute.

 

[anotheridiot]

That's a good point, Rich, but I just have a hunch that his offensive philosophy (of running the ball) is falling behind the rest of the NFL which focuses on the pass. It will be interesting to see what transpires in the next few weeks.

Someone else mentioned they wouldn't mind either Rex or Rob to coach the D. I don't want Rob if given the choice of the two. But Rob would still be an upgrade to Tucker. (The waterboy would be an upgrade.)


On an unrelated note, I heard Ditka mention on ESPN radio that (paraphrasing) that Trestman is trying to make Cutler a pocket passer which, really, is not Cutler's strength. Ditka feels that Jay is more dangerous out of the pocket. I thought Ditka's point was rather astute.

Cutlers strength is best shown when he has a clean pocket and keeps proper footwork. Out on the run the footwork is not consistent.

Any team that makes themself one dimensional is easy to get beat. Its funny watching Jay cutler do play action to Forte when Forte is three yards away from him. Yesterday the cowboys would have bowled over construction barricades, let alone a feeble defense. Romo dropped back 35 times, was hit three times, 1 sack and 2 QB hits, because the bears were all at the line of scrimmage waiting to be run on.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

On an unrelated note, I heard Ditka mention on ESPN radio that (paraphrasing) that Trestman is trying to make Cutler a pocket passer which, really, is not Cutler's strength. Ditka feels that Jay is more dangerous out of the pocket. I thought Ditka's point was rather astute.

da Coach is sort of half-right. Cutler's QBR in the pocket is 89.6, on scrambles is 72.9, and on designed roll-outs is 103.5. So clearly he does "best" on designed roll outs, but they've only done that 10 times, and since some of the value of designed roll outs is the surprise value, if you start doing it too much you lose that and opponents will plan accordingly.

 

[toooverbearing]

Whether we're looking for a head coach or a defensive coordinator or both... one consideration I would have is which candidates have had a pattern of success versus the Packers. I know it's simplistic to just boil it down to how well a coach does against one team, but like The Golden Boy Ric Flair used to say, "To be the man, you have to beat the man.... WOOOOO!"

Green Bay Packers Records by Opponent - The Football Database
According to this link the following teams have what I would consider a recent pattern of success against the Packers:

Seattle (I know, I know... we're counting the replacement ref call game that should have resulted in a Packer win)
San Francisco (Playoff time is Packer killing season for them)
New York Giants (I didn't expect that one... but there you go)
Detroit (two for the last two... but with two different staffs)
Cincinnati (I'm counting them because they won the last 3 or 4 contests, but before last year's win versus the Pack, they hadn't played them since 2009... so I'm not sure if this is a "pattern")

These are some staffs I would begin my search with.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

maybe we should hire Charles Woodson as our new DC? Haha!

 

[toooverbearing]

maybe we should hire Charles Woodson as our new DC? Haha!

If he was up to being a player-coach, Charles Woodson at 40-something would be an upgrade over Conte.

 

[toooverbearing]

Would anyone mind taking another flyer on Nick Saban? Can he be poached? Talk about a culture change... I think he would set a tone.