Things Jim Harbaugh has done (it's amazing)

[TBBishop]

Carrol inherited a very bad trojan team. I could run down a list of coaches who have turned programs around. The list of coaches who finish is another story. Not impressed with herbs. And it really doesnt matter. He's going to bury Michigan

Come on now. You can keep repeating how bad USC was for, what, 3 years before Carroll was hired? They were still around .500 every single year. They were 5-7 the year before Carroll was hired. 6-6 the year before that. 8-5 the year before that. They only had 2 sub-.500 (2000, 1991) seasons in the decade before Carroll was hired. Stanford had 2 season over .500 in the 10 before Harbaugh. USC is a storied program in arguably the strongest highschool football hotbed in the country. Stanford was a train wreck for the vast majority of their history. Comparing turning USC around to turning around Stanford is absurd. I understand that when you're used to your team winning 10+ games every year a 6 or 7 win season seems like the end of the world but get a grip, Bro!

 

[Bamabino]

He squeaked by some cupcakes and beat the 23rd and 25th ranked teams. He's AWESOME!

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Come on now. You can keep repeating how bad USC was for, what, 3 years before Carroll was hired? They were still around .500 every single year. They were 5-7 the year before Carroll was hired. 6-6 the year before that. 8-5 the year before that. They only had 2 sub-.500 (2000, 1991) seasons in the decade before Carroll was hired. Stanford had 2 season over .500 in the 10 before Harbaugh. USC is a storied program in arguably the strongest highschool football hotbed in the country. Stanford was a train wreck for the vast majority of their history. Comparing turning USC around to turning around Stanford is absurd. I understand that when you're used to your team winning 10+ games every year a 6 or 7 win season seems like the end of the world but get a grip, Bro!

Around 500 is a bad team. And you can make the case for several coaches and teams. Theres been plenty of coaches that have turned programs around,throughout the years. But a very select few that finished and won nattys,super bowls,etc..... Until Harbaugh wins the big game i cant consider him elite. Not even counting the loss to Utah. Harbaugh lost his two biggest games last year. Blowing a game on a very sloppy punt which should be a routine play. And getting blow out by OSU. Which makes me question how prepared his teams are for big games. Especially being he has a pattern of this

 

[Wamu]

Come on now. You can keep repeating how bad USC was for, what, 3 years before Carroll was hired? They were still around .500 every single year. They were 5-7 the year before Carroll was hired. 6-6 the year before that. 8-5 the year before that. They only had 2 sub-.500 (2000, 1991) seasons in the decade before Carroll was hired. Stanford had 2 season over .500 in the 10 before Harbaugh. USC is a storied program in arguably the strongest highschool football hotbed in the country. Stanford was a train wreck for the vast majority of their history. Comparing turning USC around to turning around Stanford is absurd. I understand that when you're used to your team winning 10+ games every year a 6 or 7 win season seems like the end of the world but get a grip, Bro!

Odd you went w/ a 10 year time frame before Carroll got there because you didn't mention in that time they also had two .500 seasons or their 6-5 season ('97) or their 6-5-1 season ('92). Kinda weird that the hotbed of HS football you mentioned really didn't help them out all that much during that time. Carroll got there & turned things around in his 2nd year (1st year was 6-6) after what was pretty much 11 years of mediocrity.

 

[TBBishop]

Around 500 is a bad team. And you can make the case for several coaches and teams. Theres been plenty of coaches that have turned programs around,throughout the years. But a very select few that finished and won nattys,super bowls,etc..... Until Harbaugh wins the big game i cant consider him elite. Not even counting the loss to Utah. Harbaugh lost his two biggest games last year. Blowing a game on a very sloppy punt which should be a routine play. And getting blow out by OSU. Which makes me question how prepared his teams are for big games. Especially being he has a pattern of this

OK but if .500 is bad, what is it when .500 is a banner year? That's where Stanford was. No matter how you try to slice it, building Stanford after a history of losing is far different than getting a great program back to greatness. I understand that you don't believe Harbaugh is elite but just have a better reason than USC was bad and Carroll won a championship.

As far as Utah, I don't know if you watched that game or not but that team needed seasoning and confidence. That goes 10 fold for the QB. They came a long way as the season went on. MSU, shit happens, it was an unfortunate play and outcome after a damn solid performance. OSU beat us up. Can't defend it in any way. If you want to pick at what Hatbaugh did and didn't do, that's the game to pick at. The other 2 games, it's just nonsense IMO.

 

[TBBishop]

Odd you went w/ a 10 year time frame before Carroll got there because you didn't mention in that time they also had two .500 seasons or their 6-5 season ('97) or their 6-5-1 season ('92). Kinda weird that the hotbed of HS football you mentioned really didn't help them out all that much during that time. Carroll got there & turned things around in his 2nd year (1st year was 6-6) after what was pretty much 11 years of mediocrity.

You're making my point. Mediocrity is the key word. USC was mediocre when Carroll got their and he made them great again. And, yea, the recruiting hotbed doesn't seem to help UCLA that much. Or Stanford and Cal for that matter. It doesn't help Texas or Miami when they don't have the right guy either. But when you have a Carroll, a Harbaugh, a Neuheisel (had to check, can't believe I spelled that right) or even a Tedford, that changes things. As far as the time frame, I used 10 years because '91 was the other time they were under .500 and before that it was like '83 I think it said. 5 years would have made my argument better just as 15-20 years would have so you can feel it was arbitrary if you'd like. And 6-5 or 6-5-1 is a winning record, mediocre or not.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

OK but if .500 is bad, what is it when .500 is a banner year? That's where Stanford was. No matter how you try to slice it, building Stanford after a history of losing is far different than getting a great program back to greatness. I understand that you don't believe Harbaugh is elite but just have a better reason than USC was bad and Carroll won a championship.

As far as Utah, I don't know if you watched that game or not but that team needed seasoning and confidence. That goes 10 fold for the QB. They came a long way as the season went on. MSU, shit happens, it was an unfortunate play and outcome after a damn solid performance. OSU beat us up. Can't defend it in any way. If you want to pick at what Hatbaugh did and didn't do, that's the game to pick at. The other 2 games, it's just nonsense IMO.

June Jones Hawaii 0-12 to 9-4
Elmer Burnham Purdue 1-8 to 9-0 and a BIG championship
Clark Shaughnessy. Stanford 1-7-1 to 10-0 finished 2nd in the AP polls.


Lets not pretend Stanford was never a relevant organization or that they dont have history or tradition. I cant even say Harbaugh was the best Stanford coach. You could argue Pop Warner did not just do more for Stanford. But finished as well. We could run numbers and examples of coaches who have turned around programs. Some A lot less well off than Stanford. But very few coaches finish. That is what separates an elite coach from a good coach. And to be honest Harbaughs antics and practices combined with his ego drop him down a notch. He's going to lead Michigan to the ground if he continues the way he is now.

 

[TBBishop]

Odd you went w/ a 10 year time frame before Carroll got there because you didn't mention in that time they also had two .500 seasons or their 6-5 season ('97) or their 6-5-1 season ('92). Kinda weird that the hotbed of HS football you mentioned really didn't help them out all that much during that time. Carroll got there & turned things around in his 2nd year (1st year was 6-6) after what was pretty much 11 years of mediocrity.

I'll add too that Stanford had 2 winning seasons and 8 LOSING seasons, no .500 season, before Harbaugh so your 2 .500 season along with the 2 barely winning seasons still do not even come close to trumping Stanford's cruddiness.

 

[Wamu]

I'll add too that Stanford had 2 winning seasons and 8 LOSING seasons, no .500 season, before Harbaugh so your 2 .500 season along with the 2 barely winning seasons still do not even come close to trumping Stanford's cruddiness.

You completely missed my point. You mentioned USC being in a HS football hotbed (your # 141 comment). I was pointing out the hot bed you mentioned didn't help them much in the 10 years before Carroll + his 1st year there.

 

[TBBishop]

June Jones Hawaii 0-12 to 9-4
Elmer Burnham Purdue 1-8 to 9-0 and a BIG championship
Clark Shaughnessy. Stanford 1-7-1 to 10-0 finished 2nd in the AP polls.


Lets not pretend Stanford was never a relevant organization or that they dont have history or tradition. I cant even say Harbaugh was the best Stanford coach. You could argue Pop Warner did not just do more for Stanford. But finished as well. We could run numbers and examples of coaches who have turned around programs. Some A lot less well off than Stanford. But very few coaches finish. That is what separates an elite coach from a good coach. And to be honest Harbaughs antics and practices combined with his ego drop him down a notch. He's going to lead Michigan to the ground if he continues the way he is now.

Again, I'm not arguing that there aren't other coaches who turned around programs. I'm not arguing that Harbaugh was the best Stanford coach (Pop's last year was 1932 by the way, the game changed a little). I'm not even arguing that Harbaugh is a better coach than Carroll. I'm simply arguing that your opinion that turning around USC and turning around Stanford is even close to the same thing. It's not. Any decent coach should be able to keep USC from being pathetic while it takes a pretty good coach to keep Stanford from being pathetic.

As far as Harbaugh's "antics", it's the haters that make a big deal of it. He's eccentric, he's doing things differently, but he has a lot of leeway at Michigan. Leeway he'd never have in the NFL even if an owner was foolish enough to give him GM duties too. And what is he really doing so wrong? He's pushing the envelope but not breaking rules. He's not making a lot of friends as far as rival programs or even the NCAA but so what? The family has his back so as long as he's not cheating or coving up assaults he's not going anywhere. And you bring up his ego? You think he has more ego than any other big name coach? If his ego was that massive, he would have never taken his shirt off in public!

 

[TBBishop]

You completely missed my point. You mentioned USC being in a HS football hotbed (your # 141 comment). I was pointing out the hot bed you mentioned didn't help them much in the 10 years before Carroll + his 1st year there.

Didn't miss your point at all. That hotbed and their name is what kept them mediocre instead of garbage. So I'll argue that it did indeed help them.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Again, I'm not arguing that there aren't other coaches who turned around programs. I'm not arguing that Harbaugh was the best Stanford coach (Pop's last year was 1932 by the way, the game changed a little). I'm not even arguing that Harbaugh is a better coach than Carroll. I'm simply arguing that your opinion that turning around USC and turning around Stanford is even close to the same thing. It's not. Any decent coach should be able to keep USC from being pathetic while it takes a pretty good coach to keep Stanford from being pathetic.

As far as Harbaugh's "antics", it's the haters that make a big deal of it. He's eccentric, he's doing things differently, but he has a lot of leeway at Michigan. Leeway he'd never have in the NFL even if an owner was foolish enough to give him GM duties too. And what is he really doing so wrong? He's pushing the envelope but not breaking rules. He's not making a lot of friends as far as rival programs or even the NCAA but so what? The family has his back so as long as he's not cheating or coving up assaults he's not going anywhere. And you bring up his ego? You think he has more ego than any other big name coach? If his ego was that massive, he would have never taken his shirt off in public!

And I'm not saying Harbaugh doesn't have the potential to be a good coach. But he is certainly no an elite coach. As far as his antics. Hiring the parents of athletes.Hiring high school coaches of top prospects. Causing high school kids injuries due to strange games. Sleep overs at recruits houses. Signing autographs and passing them off as charity. Theres a very long list of activities that are very seedy. And with the spotlight that was put on him and Michigan following the satellite camps. I can see harbaugh slipping up and landing Michigan in sanctions then jumping ship. His ego is a major achilles heel. In order to become an elite coach. He would have to drop the ego. And be A lot more professional to reach that tier. Along with holding the ability to prepare his team and win big games. Which is another weakness harbaugh has. being A successful underdog is one thing.There's no pressure,and we've seen how he is under pressure. He melts down. But you need to win while at the top to win championships and be elite

 

[Wamu]

Didn't miss your point at all. That hotbed and their name is what kept them mediocre instead of garbage. So I'll argue that it did indeed help them.

Of course you'd argue, you're trying to convince all of us how great of a CFB coach Jimmy Jam is even though he hasn't won shit.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

You completely missed my point. You mentioned USC being in a HS football hotbed (your # 141 comment). I was pointing out the hot bed you mentioned didn't help them much in the 10 years before Carroll + his 1st year there.

Thats a whole other topic that makes me question Harbaugh. Carrol as well as other elite coaches that took over teams built on tradition and success.. Turned their teams around in big part by utilizing the brand and history. The antics are unnecessary Whats the point in taking these risks that could potentially destroy the program?

 

[Wamu]

Thats a whole other topic that makes me question Harbaugh. Carrol as well as other elite coaches that took over teams built on tradition and success.. Turned their teams around in big part by utilizing the brand and history. The antics are unnecessary Whats the point in taking these risks that could potentially destroy the program?

Yeah like I have said before for me an elite coach has already accomplished everything. That's why I have mentioned Saban, Meyer, Stoops, Miles & Fisher as better CFB coaches than Jimbo right now. They all have conference crowns, multiple big time bowl W's & Natty's.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Yeah like I have said before for me an elite coach has already accomplished everything. That's why I have mentioned Saban, Meyer, Stoops, Miles & Fisher as better CFB coaches than Jimbo right now. They all have conference crowns, multiple big time bowl W's & Natty's.

The same ones i name plus a few more. Theres a massive differential between success and hype

 

[Wamu]

The same ones i name plus a few more. Theres a massive differential between success and hype

Get on board the hype train before it's too late...

 

[ralphiewvu]

He's so much worse. He actually puts Harbaugh up ahead of Meyer simply because Meyer didn't turn Stanford around. He's insanely ignorant, but he's from fuckin West Virginia so I guess that's par for the course.

Meyer has been handed good programs, I put them on an equal level. Sure Meyer has the NC's (with two blue blood programs). Harbaugh has turned programs around though. It's not my fault you are too stupidly ignorant to see this.

I'm not from West Virginia ethier, but you making assumptions and being a blind homer is par for the course.

 

[TBBishop]

And I'm not saying Harbaugh doesn't have the potential to be a good coach. But he is certainly no an elite coach. As far as his antics. Hiring the parents of athletes.Hiring high school coaches of top prospects. Causing high school kids injuries due to strange games. Sleep overs at recruits houses. Signing autographs and passing them off as charity. Theres a very long list of activities that are very seedy. And with the spotlight that was put on him and Michigan following the satellite camps. I can see harbaugh slipping up and landing Michigan in sanctions then jumping ship. His ego is a major achilles heel. In order to become an elite coach. He would have to drop the ego. And be A lot more professional to reach that tier. Along with holding the ability to prepare his team and win big games. Which is another weakness harbaugh has. being A successful underdog is one thing.There's no pressure,and we've seen how he is under pressure. He melts down. But you need to win while at the top to win championships and be elite

Harbaugh has hired qualified people. He goes to highschools and meets successful coaches who he believes knows and can teach football. Why wouldn't he hire them if he can? I mean how do you think moving up in coaching works? You would hope if you're hiring HS coaches they are taking part in making prospects. If you can get a pipeline with programs like Paramus Catholic and IMG Academy in the process, you'd be a damn fool not to take it. The sleepover is odd, I wouldn't even debate that it's not a little creepy. But as of right now what he did wasn't illegal and if it becomes a violation he won't do it. It's that simple. But you see it worked, people (you) are still are still talking about it. I don't even think about it unless I read it from one of you guys. Yea, these things can look seedy if you're looking for them to look seedy. None of it is against any rules and likely never will be.

As far as his ego, I don't see where he has any more ego that any other good coach. You have to have an ego. You don't think Helton has an ego? Look, I can understand why he's not everyone's cup of tea. There's a chance that I wouldn't like him if he weren't Michigan. I certainly wouldn't if he were OSU, MSU, or ND. So I understand that you don't like him. He's aggressive, obnoxious, he every fucking where you turn, and he's unapologetic about it. He has a lot of Trump in the way he goes about things IMO. But I think you let your dislike of him amplify these issues for you and a lot of others who don't like him do too.

 

[TBBishop]

Of course you'd argue, you're trying to convince all of us how great of a CFB coach Jimmy Jam is even though he hasn't won shit.

I'm simply debating points that I believe fall between inaccurate and absurd.