The Wide-9 nickel as a base defense

[broncosmitty]

That all depends on what the offense puts out there.

I'd still like to know why all the hate from Palmer? Everyone acts as if he was terrible last year, when in reality he was perfectly adequate in his role.

Is it the lack of stats he posted that's causing this animosity towards him? Because that's purely a function of him having a limited role last year. On a per snap basis he was our most effective run defender in the LB corps last year.

I'm honestly open to feedback here, not trying to be a rainbow-riding dickhole. I just didn't see what you guys saw. I see Palmer as a limited player in a limited role. He's got the skills to be an effective part-time, 2 down OLB, which happens to be what we need with Tully's injury forcing either Whitehead or Levy inside.

For as little as teams stay in a base 4-3 look anymore he's plenty adequate, imo.

. He's not good. Much like Joquie Bell, I have no idea what it is that he's good at. Depth, sure. Starter/major contributor/depended on, I sure hope not.

 

[broncosmitty]

I didn't catch the date at first and thought this was a new thread. I was reading Old Lion's OP and was like "what the fuck are you seeing out there?!" but then I realized he was talking about last year's defense, and then it made waaaaaay more sense, lol.

Yeah, I was trying to figure out how I didn't remember the post of mine. Sneaky, sneaky that Gandydancer.

 

[tpaulus_2]

. He's not good. Much like Joquie Bell, I have no idea what it is that he's good at. Depth, sure. Starter/major contributor/depended on, I sure hope not.

See, imo that's just opinion.

Tell me where he's not good, not just the eyeball test. The numbers and results are there to support that if used correctly he can be effective.

I'm not saying he's a Pro Bowl caliber talent, but every starter on the field can't be of that talent level anyhow. Also, we're using "starter" very, very generously in this context. I know our base is a 4-3, but that 3rd LB is only a starter in title.

Bell's fumble issues this year and horrible average make it tough to make a case against him, but to be fair you were dogging him all last year when he was running very effectively.

Imo this is a case of just personally not like a dude, or pair of dudes in this case, and not being able to separate that from their abilities on the football field.

Palmer is a good run defender- there's a lot of those in the league that are "starters," yet come off the field on every passing down.

I'm not in love with Palmer or defending his awesome abilities, I just wan't something more than "he's not good." He's not good in coverage, that's for sure, but that can also be mitigated, at least to an extent.

Hell I don't think he's particularly "good" either, but he does some things well enough to keep Van Noy's spot warm and keep us from having to bring in a free agent. If anyone available was as good as Palmer they'd be on an NFL roster right now, not out looking for work. I know the fans often have their own ranking systems, but NFL teams generally won't keep a veteran reserve on the roster if there's a better option readily available...



To specifically address the bold part, what he's very good at is stopping the run. As I mentioned already, he rated out as our most effective run defender last season among the LBs. His percentage of tackles for a loss on a per-play basis led the league, or some such bullshit. He would have got a ton of tackles as a full-time player, but also would have got picked on in coverage. Most 4-3 teams' 3rd LB is a two down type pretty much exactly like Ashlee Palmer.

 

[Kreton]

we really don't have a good enough sample of palmer right now to say one way or the other. He's next on the depth chart and on any plays where 3 LBs are on the field he should be out there.

That said if he or whitehead struggle the Lions did work out Angerer and brought in the Ravens PS guy. Whitehead and Palmer have a great opportunity to show what they can do. If they don't they wont be bad there for long.

 

[Old Lion]

If Lewis gets healthy soon he would most likely be the third. he had a decent camp. Palmer seems to have lost a step IMO. He had his chances and didn't really impress. He was not terrible but nit impressive either. We really need Van Noy to get healthy and back on the field.

 

[broncosmitty]

See, imo that's just opinion.

Tell me where he's not good, not just the eyeball test. The numbers and results are there to support that if used correctly he can be effective.

I'm not saying he's a Pro Bowl caliber talent, but every starter on the field can't be of that talent level anyhow. Also, we're using "starter" very, very generously in this context. I know our base is a 4-3, but that 3rd LB is only a starter in title.

Bell's fumble issues this year and horrible average make it tough to make a case against him, but to be fair you were dogging him all last year when he was running very effectively.

Imo this is a case of just personally not like a dude, or pair of dudes in this case, and not being able to separate that from their abilities on the football field.

Palmer is a good run defender- there's a lot of those in the league that are "starters," yet come off the field on every passing down.

I'm not in love with Palmer or defending his awesome abilities, I just wan't something more than "he's not good." He's not good in coverage, that's for sure, but that can also be mitigated, at least to an extent.

Hell I don't think he's particularly "good" either, but he does some things well enough to keep Van Noy's spot warm and keep us from having to bring in a free agent. If anyone available was as good as Palmer they'd be on an NFL roster right now, not out looking for work. I know the fans often have their own ranking systems, but NFL teams generally won't keep a veteran reserve on the roster if there's a better option readily available...



To specifically address the bold part, what he's very good at is stopping the run. As I mentioned already, he rated out as our most effective run defender last season among the LBs. His percentage of tackles for a loss on a per-play basis led the league, or some such bullshit. He would have got a ton of tackles as a full-time player, but also would have got picked on in coverage. Most 4-3 teams' 3rd LB is a two down type pretty much exactly like Ashlee Palmer.

In my opinion, your opinion that its simply my opinion, is a good opinion.