The Walking Dead

[Payton]

Overall, it's a small % of the show. It COULD be much worse, it could be on the WB, and angsty teens could be the whole show, with adults only as foils for them to angst against. (The 100 etc etc etc)

I'd argue that life seen through younger characters eyes is pretty central, since that's the whole hook of the show, should any of them bother hoping for a future.

And in that sense I suppose Enid is a useful character. But that still leaves us with Ron and Carl. As far as I'm concerned, neither of them should have a future...

 

[Payton]

I've never really understood the hate for Carl. I've always liked his character, Sam, Ron and Lizzy or whatever her name was should put things into perspective. Kids can be a lot more whiney and messed up in this world than Carl was.

He was Rick's anchor after his Mother died, this is a really strong kid.

The character was okay IMO until this season... Now there is just something about either the dialogue, the acting or just the plot in general with regard to Carl that is grating on my nerves. Can't really put a finger on it, but the Carl/Ron arc reminds me of Annikan and Amidala in Episodes 2 and 3 of Star Wars. Just painful to watch...

 

[Payton]

At the same time, having a bit of teen-aged drama is realistic. Carl IS a teen-ager. Wouldnt he get a chubby if there is a girl roughly his age in his basic proximity? And wouldnt Ron get bent out of shape if this bad-ass survivor comes in and take his girl?

The story-line may be annoying to adults, but that is more because teen-agers are annoying to adults. Not because the story-line is not realistic.

Well, it'd be realistic to show more of Judith and how she is being raised in this world too... Doesn't mean anyone wants to watch it.

 

[calsnowskier]

Well, it'd be realistic to show more of Judith and how she is being raised in this world too... Doesn't mean anyone wants to watch it.

Thee is a difference between showing changing diapers and dealing with a young-adult dealing with the ZA.

Your line is here while mine is over here. Fair enough.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Now I know you aren't referring to me when you speak of people who say the show really has gone downhill, because I never said such a thing, so I'll let those who have defend themselves from here, but...

I spent too much time last season and at the end of the most recent wondering why the fuck I was watching. That's how I know it's gone downhill.

If there's people that still like it, good for them. Shit loads of people watch The Voice too.

 

[chf]

And yet, there you are... watching.

Hmmmm....

The Voice. Heh.

What, no 2.5 Men comparisons?

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

I stopped watching the show after season 3 or 4 I forget which, but it doesn't matter...I will say however that I find this thread to be much more entertaining....lol

Some of you seem to put way too much stock and importance into it.

Oh well.... different strokes/different folks.

Keep it rollin', y'all.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

And yet, there you are... watching.

Hmmmm....

The Voice. Heh.

What, no 2.5 Men comparisons?

Which means nothing.

People gawk at car accidents. Does that make them good?

 

[chf]

There's good car accidents and bad. How many killed? Injured? Bodies visible? Yellow tarps? Alcohol involved? Road rage? Road conditions?

So much nuance!

 

[Payton]

Thee is a difference between showing changing diapers and dealing with a young-adult dealing with the ZA.

Your line is here while mine is over here. Fair enough.

I think it's more that they can be subtle and show us all we need about the inconvenience of having Judith in the ZA. Whether it be Tyrese trying to protect her, or finding formula on a run or Carol handing her off when going to confront Morgan, or Rick hearing her cry with a hoarde of zombies beating at the door.

They had done fine getting the point across with Ron and Carl simply by showing Ron's looks, showing him with Enid and his reactions to Carl's presence. Guess I just feel the rest could have occurred without the painfully forced dialogue... But hey, if you enjoy it.

 

[calsnowskier]

I just have an idea where they may be going with it, and if it has the payoff I am hoping for, I feel it will be worth it.

And again, having annoying teens argue about annoying teen issues is life, ZA or no ZA.

And ftr, I am not a fan of Judith at all. I do not understand the point of having her around. The comics handled her completely differently and it had a much stronger effect on the story.

 

[juliansteed]

I just have an idea where they may be going with it, and if it has the payoff I am hoping for, I feel it will be worth it.

And again, having annoying teens argue about annoying teen issues is life, ZA or no ZA.

And ftr, I am not a fan of Judith at all. I do not understand the point of having her around. The comics handled her completely differently and it had a much stronger effect on the story.

I haven't really enjoyed it so far but I assume they are building upto something that has a decent payoff. And if not, no big deal. It's not the first somewhat minor storyline that didn't really interest me.

The part that annoyed me the most is when Carl was trying to make up with him and told him that he needs to know that his dad is an asshole and then the same guy that was just trying to kill him barely reacted at all. True or not, that's probably not the smartest way to diffuse a situation with a guy that is bitter at you for potentially stealing his girlfriend and because your dad recently killed his dad. Maybe he should have said that his dad was beating his mom and maybe his little brother, went crazy and killed Reg, and that Rick was only following Deanna's orders. But whatever, I guess Carl's comment was perceived as more entertaining and better TV. Fair enough, it probably was. As stupid as it was, Carl's comment itself wasn't really unrealistic. What was unrealistic was Ron's reaction to it. All of a sudden he appeared to become somewhat of a rational human being.

 

[Payton]

I just have an idea where they may be going with it, and if it has the payoff I am hoping for, I feel it will be worth it.

And again, having annoying teens argue about annoying teen issues is life, ZA or no ZA.

And ftr, I am not a fan of Judith at all. I do not understand the point of having her around. The comics handled her completely differently and it had a much stronger effect on the story.

I get that... I mean I thought we were getting somewhere when it looked like Ron was going to cap Carl... That'd be good stuff (Not because I don't care for the Carl character, but because of the shockwaves that would be caused by it...). As far as the, "Carl is going to try to help Ron and be the bigger person and then Ron is still going to end up effing him somehow." arc... Didn't we just have that with Glenn and the other dude who blew his brains out on the dumpster?

Anyway, with Judith, I don't see the problem you'd have because they really aren't taking up any time including anything about her. She gets mentioned in passing and there's an occasional reference to her and that's about it. That's what I mean with Carl and Ron... We don't need any more painful dialogue there or wasted time developing this arc IMO. We get it already.

But I understand as a reader of the comics you might be hoping for something you read there that I'm not aware of, so... All cool (Not that it wouldn't have been otherwise, but.... Shit, you know what I mean.. heheh...).

 

[Payton]

I haven't really enjoyed it so far but I assume they are building upto something that has a decent payoff. And if not, no big deal. It's not the first somewhat minor storyline that didn't really interest me.

The part that annoyed me the most is when Carl was trying to make up with him and told him that he needs to know that his dad is an asshole and then the same guy that was just trying to kill him barely reacted at all. True or not, that's probably not the smartest way to diffuse a situation with a guy that is bitter at you for potentially stealing his girlfriend and because your dad recently killed his dad. Maybe he should have said that his dad was beating his mom and maybe his little brother, went crazy and killed Reg, and that Rick was only following Deanna's orders. But whatever, I guess Carl's comment was perceived as more entertaining and better TV. Fair enough, it probably was. As stupid as it was, Carl's comment itself wasn't really unrealistic. What was unrealistic was Ron's reaction to it. All of a sudden he appeared to become somewhat of a rational human being.

Yeah, a bit better explanation might have made more sense there... His Dad wasn't killed simply because he, "Was an asshole"...

 

[anotheridiot]

there is an angle for Judith, as being born after everyone was infected and the possibility that she might not be. I dont know if that was ever explored. I thought Ron would have known how much of an asshole his dad was after watching him get drunk and belittle his mother. A son reaches an age where they should have protected the mother.

Anyway, I guess with the lame "cliffhanger" its two months of trying to keep this thread active.

 

[Chef99]

"Who's talkin' shit about me? My dad will kill your dad!!"

 

[chf]

I just have an idea where they may be going with it, and if it has the payoff I am hoping for, I feel it will be worth it.

This is the drum I keep banging on shows like this. Do the writers/show runners get some leeway and some trust because of the past episodes you liked?

Maybe there's a POINT to them seemingly veering off into unexpected territory?

Some shows, the answer to those questions is an obvious and emphatic, no.

In Payton's example above of Carl, yeah, he's not as accomplished an actor as some of the others on the show, but they're sorta' stuck with him now. So do they not give him any dialogue? Or do they try to have him grow into the part, and get better?

I can see that his lines aren't as good as some other actor would deliver. I don't think they're cringe worthy or anything. But sure, not great either.

I'm willing to just go along for the ride with those storylines, because I trust the writers/show, and even though I stopped reading the graphic novels a ways, back, I figure that there'll be a payoff.

 

[Comeds]

I find so much of the dialogue on the show cringe worthy. Carl the other night. Deanna speech to Rick. Abaraham the entire episode a few weeks ago.

I think it and a lot of the other bad writing is Kirkman's fault. Numerous show runner/producer changes were made until someone stuck that he could work with ie control. Writing a comic is much different than writing for TV so the dumb dialogue and odd pacing at times I blame on that.

 

[calsnowskier]

I find so much of the dialogue on the show cringe worthy. Carl the other night. Deanna speech to Rick. Abaraham the entire episode a few weeks ago.

I think it and a lot of the other bad writing is Kirkman's fault. Numerous show runner/producer changes were made until someone stuck that he could work with ie control. Writing a comic is much different than writing for TV so the dumb dialogue and odd pacing at times I blame on that.

The show-runner merry-go-round has certainly been a problem for this show.

Darabont was clearly the best, but he had artistic differences with Kirkman (he wanted to explore the cause and cure of the virus, Kirkman has no interest in that). This led to his ouster.

Mazzara was a good story-teller, but he was blasting through the material WAY too fast, and they would have caught up to the comics in about 2 weeks if they stayed with him. Apparently they did not like his ideas for ending the Prison arc, thus the bungled S3 finale re-shoots by Gimple.

Gimple has a better over-all vision of the show and where he wants to take it, and he brings in some good non-comic story arcs. His problem, IMHO, is his story-telling style. He likes to jump around between groups in a "meanwhile..." style. Both Darabont and Mazzara were MUCH more linear, and the story was more compelling and fluid because of it. Gimple's technique gets too frustrating.

 

[chf]

Abaraham the entire episode a few weeks ago.

Poorly delivered by the actor, or poorly written?

My criticism of that episode would be that those two characters wouldn't speak like that, but that's a BROAD brush that applies to about 80% of TV.

Ironic (at least to me) is that 'good' writing is often identified as lyrical or powerful (speech!) and people just don't talk like that in real life.

People fawn all over Aaron Sorkin for his writing, and to me, he's the epitome of fanciful, non-realistic writing. People simply never speak that way.

I always loved Elmore Leonard because of his great ear for dialogue.

I thought that the Abraham episode was trying too hard to be poetic. But I thought the actor did a fine job delivering those lines.