The Steals Thread.

[nuraman00]

I disagree regarding steals because he’s not trying to get the steals. He’s preserving his body. So he’s not lifting 60 pounds. Instead he’s lifting 15. That may cost his team if they lose regular season games, but the real question would be what happens when he needs to win like in the playoffs. Would he overextend himself? Regarding the assists, he’s being more efficient and I think the overall pace of the offense is slower and so making the same smart efficient decisions isn’t working harder. Work smarter, not harder. Sacrifice is aggression on steals.

Never sacrifice steals! Steals are the best thing. They are one of the only turnovers to guarantee possession of a live ball.

 

[nuraman00]

Have you looked at bad pass rates versus other turnovers? I’m trying to see if his efficiency is worse. I know he doesn’t have as many assists, but last year may have be an outlier despite his high average overall in his career.

As for free throws, maybe he better when there’s a crowd?

One of the first LeBron James games I remember was during his rookie year.

ESPN game, vs. Milwaukee.

Late in the 3rd, he is fouled on a 3 point attempt.

He misses all 3 FTs.

The Milwaukee crowd loved it.

Cavaliers vs Bucks, January 30, 2004 | Basketball-Reference.com

CLE (95) vs MIL (101). Get the box score, shot charts and play by play summary of the Cavaliers vs Bucks, January 30, 2004.

www.basketball-reference.com

0:41.5 L. James misses free throw 1 of 3 91-96
0:41.5 Offensive rebound by Team 91-96
0:41.5 L. James misses free throw 2 of 3 91-96
0:41.5 Offensive rebound by Team 91-96
0:41.5 L. James misses free throw 3 of 3 91-96
0:40.9 91-96 Defensive rebound by T. Ford
0:40.6 91-96 Milwaukee full timeout
0:40.6 K. Ollie enters the game for L. James

 

[nuraman00]

Have you looked at bad pass rates versus other turnovers? I’m trying to see if his efficiency is worse. I know he doesn’t have as many assists, but last year may have be an outlier despite his high average overall in his career.

As for free throws, maybe he better when there’s a crowd?

Where do I find bad pass rates?

 

[nuraman00]

I disagree regarding steals because he’s not trying to get the steals. He’s preserving his body. So he’s not lifting 60 pounds. Instead he’s lifting 15. That may cost his team if they lose regular season games, but the real question would be what happens when he needs to win like in the playoffs. Would he overextend himself? Regarding the assists, he’s being more efficient and I think the overall pace of the offense is slower and so making the same smart efficient decisions isn’t working harder. Work smarter, not harder. Sacrifice is aggression on steals.

He is making the game harder by not getting steals.

If he doesn't get steals, then he has to keep working on defense to get a stop.

If he gets a steal, then he makes the game easier, because the offense will get an easier opportunity.

So he is not preserving his body by not getting steals. If he really isn't trying to get steals.

 

[nuraman00]

I disagree regarding steals because he’s not trying to get the steals. He’s preserving his body. So he’s not lifting 60 pounds. Instead he’s lifting 15. That may cost his team if they lose regular season games, but the real question would be what happens when he needs to win like in the playoffs. Would he overextend himself? Regarding the assists, he’s being more efficient and I think the overall pace of the offense is slower and so making the same smart efficient decisions isn’t working harder. Work smarter, not harder. Sacrifice is aggression on steals.

Never lift 15 lb. weights! I don't care if you are a 163 lb. player or a 282 lb. player. A 15 lb. weight won't help with endurance, nor strength. Too light, for a NBA player.

 

[MHSL82]

I will say that no matter how many minutes he plays, his body is getting worn and torn and he is getting older. So the fact that he is shooting at a lower percentage might just mean he’s older and we don’t know how well he would shoot if he were not preserving his body. Maybe that .497 would be .486? What .486 be worth 0.3 more steals?

 

[MHSL82]

Where do I find bad pass rates?

I think only TV crews and other stat companies have that, but I have seen someone site that information on TV. I believed that you have more statistical depth than I do. So I hoped that you would have been able to just whip that information out, even if it went against what I believed to be true.

 

[nuraman00]

I will say that no matter how many minutes he plays, his body is getting worn and torn and he is getting older. So the fact that he is shooting at a lower percentage might just mean he’s older and we don’t know how well he would shoot if he were not preserving his body. Maybe that .497 would be .486? What .486 be worth 0.3 more steals?

Yes. It would also be worth 0.7 more steals.

 

[nuraman00]

I think only TV crews and other stat companies have that, but I have seen someone site that information on TV. I believed that you have more statistical depth than I do. So I hoped that you would have been able to just whip that information out, even if it went against what I believed to be true.

I didn't whip it out.

 

[nuraman00]

I disagree regarding steals because he’s not trying to get the steals. He’s preserving his body. So he’s not lifting 60 pounds. Instead he’s lifting 15. That may cost his team if they lose regular season games, but the real question would be what happens when he needs to win like in the playoffs. Would he overextend himself? Regarding the assists, he’s being more efficient and I think the overall pace of the offense is slower and so making the same smart efficient decisions isn’t working harder. Work smarter, not harder. Sacrifice is aggression on steals.

You've proven he's not working smarter, and is working harder.

1). He's turning it over more, which means his team has to play better to win.

2). His FT% isn't as good, so he has to do more to help his team win, or he has do more to score.

3). He's not stealing the ball, so his team is on defense for longer periods of time. Which means he has to work harder to get a stop. Can't win without getting stops.

Stealing the ball shortens the amount of time his team is on defense, and can lead to an easier offensive opportunity.

So stealing is smarter.

If his FG%, FT%, steal rate, rebound rate, assist rate were close to highs, and he played less minutes, then it would mean he is both working smarter and harder in less minutes (as long as his team was still winning). That would be ideal for preservation. So he's doing more in less.

Right now, he's doing less in less.

 

[MHSL82]

I didn't whip it out.

Thank goodness.

That‘s what she said.

 

[MHSL82]

You've proven he's not working smarter, and is working harder.

1). He's turning it over more, which means his team has to play better to win.

2). His FT% isn't as good, so he has to do more to help his team win, or he has do more to score.

3). He's not stealing the ball, so his team is on defense for longer periods of time. Which means he has to work harder to get a stop. Can't win without getting stops.

Stealing the ball shortens the amount of time his team is on defense, and can lead to an easier offensive opportunity.

So stealing is smarter.

If his FG%, FT%, steal rate, rebound rate, assist rate were close to highs, and he played less minutes, then it would mean he is both working smarter and harder in less minutes (as long as his team was still winning). That would be ideal for preservation. So he's doing more in less.

Right now, he's doing less in less.

I don’t think he cares about doing less as long as his body is preserved. Maybe he pays for it by being a 2 seed or 3 seed, but he believes a rested LeBron will do better than a win or two.
I don’t think he’s working harder to make up for it because he’s not making up for it.

If he weren’t getting older, like some magic, I’d agree with you. But I think he’s putting a premium on effort, sacrificing maybe a win or three. (Close losses.)

 

[nuraman00]

TJ McConnell with 9 steals at halftime!

 

[nuraman00]

I don't think anyone has passed anyone on the all-time list, in a long time.

 

[MHSL82]

I don't think anyone has passed anyone on the all-time list, in a long time.

There’s a chance that Gary Payton gets passed by someone this year, but I forgot who. It was someone that I wasn’t expecting to have that many steals, I think or maybe the 26th all time is someone I wasn’t expecting. It’s someone like Andre Iguodala.

I was always surprised with how high Karl Malone is on the list. I know he played a lot of games, it’s just seems interesting, same with Hakeem Olajuwon.

 

[nuraman00]

There’s a chance that Gary Payton gets passed by someone this year, but I forgot who. It was someone that I wasn’t expecting to have that many steals, I think or maybe the 26th all time is someone I wasn’t expecting. It’s someone like Andre Iguodala.

I was always surprised with how high Karl Malone is on the list. I know he played a lot of games, it’s just seems interesting, same with Hakeem Olajuwon.

That's why those two are some of my favorite players.

And they're not on the steals list because they played a lot of games. They're on the steals list because they had good active hands.

Sengun seems to be getting a lot of steals. I haven't watched him in a real game though, so not sure how he's getting them.

He's 9th in the league, playing only 20.5 mpg.

2021-22 NBA Player Stats: Per Game | Basketball-Reference.com

Player stat per game averages for the 2021-22 NBA season

www.basketball-reference.com

 

[nuraman00]

Now would be a good time for the Jazz to learn how to do this. Dallas has 23 steals, Utah has 7.

 

[nuraman00]

Chris Paul is 812 steals behind Stockton. He'd need to average 1.651 steals over 6 years to pass him, or 1.981 steals over 5 years, or 2.476 steals over 4 years.

He is 4,829 assists behind Stockton. He'd need to average 9.816 assists over 6 years, 11.779 over 5 years, or 14.723 over 4 years.

 

[MHSL82]

Add this to the Game Winning Steals list like you do for Game Winning Assist.

Jazz 124-123 Warriors (Dec 7, 2022) Final Score - ESPN

Game summary of the Utah Jazz vs. Golden State Warriors NBA game, final score 124-123, from December 7, 2022 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

 

[nuraman00]

I fell asleep and missed it live!