The stats that people hate...but shouldnt

[Hunter Montana]

QS is not about the pitcher getting the win it is about the team getting the win... Now what i meant by runs are irrelevant is that since the lead is theoretical it doesnt matter if it really happens or not...

I think the problem is by defining a QS to be 6 IP / 3 ER, you are counting on your bullpen to be perfect and not let up any runs. If you are saying the average MLB team can score 4, then to get a win you would need to hold the other team to three. Therefore, if a starting pitcher goes 6 IP, I think they should only be allowed to let up 2 ER because that would allow the bullpen more slack (and it equates to a 3.00 ERA for the game - which matches a goal of not letting up more than 3 runs).

I still don't like QS all that much, but I think it can be improved if you say the starting pitcher must go at least 6 and have an ERA of 3.00 or less for the game. Of course, this is not even getting into the issues of unearned runs or going longer than 9 IP in a game. For example, take a look at this article:

Joe Blogs: All You Never Wanted To Know: Quality Starts

Some of the examples from that article:

"In July 2000, Mark Mulder went 6 2/3 innings, gave up 15 hits and nine runs -- but only two were earned and so that was a classified as a quality start.

In June 1997, Randy Johnson struck out 19 in a complete game but allowed 4 runs. That was not a quality start.

In July 1982, Mike Scott allowed seven hits and walked five in six inning, didn't strike out anybody, gave up seven runs, but only three of those were earned. Quality start.

In April 1974, Gaylord Perry went 15 innings and allowed four runs. Not a quality start."

Someone giving up 15 hits is a quality start? Going 15 innings only allowing 4 runs is not a QS?

 

[Hunter Montana]

BTW, I think a better stat than QS is the game score:
Game score - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It considers more factors than just IP and ER.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

BTW, I think a better stat than QS is the game score:
Game score - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It considers more factors than just IP and ER.

sometimes easy to calculate is actually a good thing though... And QS is not a stat meant to judge one game it is a stat to measure consistency throughout the season and is unaffected by outliers...

 

[Hunter Montana]

sometimes easy to calculate is actually a good thing though... And QS is not a stat meant to judge one game it is a stat to measure consistency throughout the season and is unaffected by outliers...

Game score is easy to calculate as well. Check out the link. And you can also measure consistency throughout the season by either looking at a graph of all a pitcher's game scores or averaging them together.

I like game scores also because they offer more detail than QS. Which start is better? Someone going 6 IP giving up 3 ER? Or 9 IP giving up 0 ER? QS measures them exactly the same.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Game score is easy to calculate as well. Check out the link. And you can also measure consistency throughout the season by either looking at a graph of all a pitcher's game scores or averaging them together.

I like game scores also because they offer more detail than QS. Which start is better? Someone going 6 IP giving up 3 ER? Or 9 IP giving up 0 ER? QS measures them exactly the same.

Yes, but they are 2 totally different stats... game score measures a particular game and how good a pitcher was in that game... QS, is similar to the WINS category, but it does not take into account your teams offense only your pitching...

 

[Hunter Montana]

Yes, but they are 2 totally different stats... game score measures a particular game and how good a pitcher was in that game... QS, is similar to the WINS category, but it does not take into account your teams offense only your pitching...

But you can use average game score for an entire season. For example, this season, both James Shields and Clayton Kershaw have 26 QS. However, James Shields has an average game score of 57, while Clayton Kershaw has an average game score of 67. I just don't think QS gives one enough information to differentiate between two pitchers.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

But you can use average game score for an entire season. For example, this season, both James Shields and Clayton Kershaw have 26 QS. However, James Shields has an average game score of 57, while Clayton Kershaw has an average game score of 67. I just don't think QS gives one enough information to differentiate between two pitchers.

There is no one stat that should ever be used alone to make any analysis...

 

[Hunter Montana]

There is no one stat that should ever be used alone to make any analysis...

I agree.

 

[Hunter Montana]

Take a look at this article, however....

Does ?Game Score? Still Work in Today?s High-Offense Game? | SABR

Like you said in your OP...

many that tell the same or similar stories a little better than others

I think QS and Game Score tell a similar story (how a pitcher performs in a given start - both stats can also be applied over a total season i.e. total QS or average Game Score), but Game Score tells it a little better. I still agree you should not rely on one stat.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Take a look at this article, however....

Does ?Game Score? Still Work in Today?s High-Offense Game? | SABR

Like you said in your OP...



I think QS and Game Score tell a similar story (how a pitcher performs in a given start - both stats can also be applied over a total season i.e. total QS or average Game Score), but Game Score tells it a little better. I still agree you should not rely on one stat.

But QS is not meant for a single game... its like a WIN what does a WIN really say for one game, not that much... it is intended as an accumulation stat... the higher the better... Just like WINS...

 

[Villain]

There is no one stat that should ever be used alone to make any analysis...

But there are many which people give way too much weight to, like Wins, Runs, and RBIs.