THE PAC12 THREAD v.4

[RaidaDave]

Well if Oregon doesnt end up being a top ten team again Id say thats a decline concidering the glory days of Chip saw the Ducks in the top five for most of those years.

True, but when the dust settles, I would not be surprised to see the Ducks sitting right there.

 

[RaidaDave]

^Scared

LOL...Not in the least.

 

[RaidaDave]

Until the dubs start playing some real competition, I won't buy into a single bit of the hype. And that won't come until the PAC 12 schedule starts. Sorry, Rutgers, Idaho, and Portland St don't count.

 

[TheDayMan]

Until the dubs start playing some real competition, I won't buy into a single bit of the hype. And that won't come until the PAC 12 schedule starts. Sorry, Rutgers, Idaho, and Portland St don't count.

Okay.

 

[trojanfan12]

Coaching changes and declines are inevitable. It happens to every team at some point. The difference is whether or not the team can return to prominence or not. The "traditional powers" always find their way back eventually.

I think this is the position that Oregon currently is in. If they continue to decline and don't return to prominence, then it was a nice little run that ultimately doesn't mean much except for fond memories for Ducks fans who experienced it.

On the other hand, if they are able to work through it and return to prominence, then you have to start looking at them as a potential "traditional power" imo.

 

[WizardHawk]

Coaching changes and declines are inevitable. It happens to every team at some point. The difference is whether or not the team can return to prominence or not. The "traditional powers" always find their way back eventually.

I think this is the position that Oregon currently is in. If they continue to decline and don't return to prominence, then it was a nice little run that ultimately doesn't mean much except for fond memories for Ducks fans who experienced it.

On the other hand, if they are able to work through it and return to prominence, then you have to start looking at them as a potential "traditional power" imo.

Current power, maybe. "Traditional"? No way. That implies old school and having done it over many many decades. By definition it can't be a johnny come lately. You can't suck at something for nearly 100 years, have a run, and be called a traditional power.

Every fan of their own base is in denial when things are turning south. Every single one of them. Every damned time. And optimism about a quick bounce back is pretty damned common as well.

What makes the USC's, Bama's, etc of the college football world different is kids are always attracted to their very long rich history and are simply looking for an excuse to get back on their bandwagon and playing for them if it appears they are turning things around. Truth is no one knows how much legacy this stretch will be worth when they go through their next downturn, but they surely don't have that kind of cache built up. Almost no teams do outside of the true blueblood programs.

 

[trojanfan12]

Current power, maybe. "Traditional"? No way. That implies old school and having done it over many many decades. By definition it can't be a johnny come lately. You can't suck at something for nearly 100 years, have a run, and be called a traditional power.

Every fan of their own base is in denial when things are turning south. Every single one of them. Every damned time. And optimism about a quick bounce back is pretty damned common as well.

What makes the USC's, Bama's, etc of the college football world different is kids are always attracted to their very long rich history and are simply looking for an excuse to get back on their bandwagon and playing for them if it appears they are turning things around. Truth is no one knows how much legacy this stretch will be worth when they go through their next downturn, but they surely don't have that kind of cache built up. Almost no teams do outside of the true blueblood programs.

That's why I said "potential" traditional power. At some point in their existence, every "traditional power" has been in the position that Oregon currently finds itself.

They have all been at that "crossroad." The teams that have been able to return to prominence multiple times have earned the title of "traditional power."

If Oregon rebounds, then imo, it will be time to look at them as a potential traditional power. Obviously, they'd have to be able to do it a few more times over a longer period of time, but returning to prominence would be the first step.

Of course, knowing Ducks fans, many of them probably think they are already a traditional power. lol

 

[wazzu31]

That's why I said "potential" traditional power. At some point in their existence, every "traditional power" has been in the position that Oregon currently finds itself.

They have all been at that "crossroad." The teams that have been able to return to prominence multiple times have earned the title of "traditional power."

If Oregon rebounds, then imo, it will be time to look at them as a potential traditional power. Obviously, they'd have to be able to do it a few more times over a longer period of time, but returning to prominence would be the first step.

Of course, knowing Ducks fans, many of them probably think they are already a traditional power. lol

I wouldn't say any team in college football history has ever been where Oregon is. I'd say Texas would be about closest ever but even Texas' boosters lack Uncle Phil.

Uncle Phil bought Oregon into a top program and IMO there biggest issue is Uncle Phil and Oregon didn't actually acknowledge they were in the big leagues and have kept Oregon the gimmick school instead of evolving.

That was an issue with us, we were a gimmick school with a spread offense but once we got in our little 3 year run we didn't have the resources to evolve but Oregon does.

 

[nddulac]

Coaching changes and declines are inevitable. It happens to every team at some point. The difference is whether or not the team can return to prominence or not. The "traditional powers" always find their way back eventually.

I think this is the position that Oregon currently is in. If they continue to decline and don't return to prominence, then it was a nice little run that ultimately doesn't mean much except for fond memories for Ducks fans who experienced it.

On the other hand, if they are able to work through it and return to prominence, then you have to start looking at them as a potential "traditional power" imo.

Or - they may just be Miami (Fl) 2.0.

 

[trojanfan12]

I wouldn't say any team in college football history has ever been where Oregon is. I'd say Texas would be about closest ever but even Texas' boosters lack Uncle Phil.

Uncle Phil bought Oregon into a top program and IMO there biggest issue is Uncle Phil and Oregon didn't actually acknowledge they were in the big leagues and have kept Oregon the gimmick school instead of evolving.

That was an issue with us, we were a gimmick school with a spread offense but once we got in our little 3 year run we didn't have the resources to evolve but Oregon does.

I agree to a point. However, the "how" of a team becoming a traditional power isn't as important as what they do and if they can sustain it/come back after they have been down. All of the traditional powers have been at the same crossroads where Oregon currently finds themselves. Uncle Phil's money not withstanding what they do from here will determine what they become.

Uncle Phil's money may be how Oregon got to where they are, but it's not what will sustain them and it's not what will keep them at/return them to prominence. The shiny facilities and glittery uniforms may have attracted recruits, but now the established traditional powers also have shiny facilities and while they may not have the glittery uniforms, they really don't need them (one of the perks of being a traditional power).

If there is "substance" under Oregon's "style" they should be able to get back into contention. If there isn't, they'll go back to where they were pre-Uncle Phil and they won't be back.

In other words, they will learn why that "tradition" that they poked fun at no so long ago is so important.

 

[WizardHawk]

God I love football in 60. Best way to watch games back. Really the only cool thing the network does for us.

 

[Not Neutral]

.

I agree to a point. However, the "how" of a team becoming a traditional power isn't as important as what they do and if they can sustain it/come back after they have been down. All of the traditional powers have been at the same crossroads where Oregon currently finds themselves. Uncle Phil's money not withstanding what they do from here will determine what they become.

Uncle Phil's money may be how Oregon got to where they are, but it's not what will sustain them and it's not what will keep them at/return them to prominence. The shiny facilities and glittery uniforms may have attracted recruits, but now the established traditional powers also have shiny facilities and while they may not have the glittery uniforms, they really don't need them (one of the perks of being a traditional power).

If there is "substance" under Oregon's "style" they should be able to get back into contention. If there isn't, they'll go back to where they were pre-Uncle Phil and they won't be back.

In other words, they will learn why that "tradition" that they poked fun at no so long ago is so important.

How long did it take USC to become a "traditional" power? How much longer does Oregon have to go? Do you lose your claim to "traditional power" after a certain amount of time, say 10 years of not winning, or so? Why will Uncle Phil's money not sustain OU if that's what got them there (assuming that it did)?

 

[trojanfan12]

.

How long did it take USC to become a "traditional" power? How much longer does Oregon have to go? Do you lose your claim to "traditional power" after a certain amount of time, say 10 years of not winning, or so? Why will Uncle Phil's money not sustain OU if that's what got them there (assuming that it did)?

I don't know exactly when USC started being considered a traditional power. They were already considered a traditional power when I was old enough to start following them and that was in 1970.

Don't know what it takes to stop being a traditional power since they don't really change much.

Uncle Phil's money may not sustain Oregon because it just buys pretty things. It doesn't provide substance. Oregon garnered a lot of attention because Uncle Phil's money bought them shiny facilities and glittery uniforms. Well, guess what? Other schools, including the traditional powers, started upgrading their facilities too.

So now, Oregon has to come up with something more than matching shoes and purses to maintain/return to prominence. That's usually where a teams tradition (that Oregon mocked a little while back) comes in to play. We'll see if Oregon can do it or not.

 

[Not Neutral]

I don't know exactly when USC started being considered a traditional power. They were already considered a traditional power when I was old enough to start following them and that was in 1970.

Don't know what it takes to stop being a traditional power since they don't really change much.

Uncle Phil's money may not sustain Oregon because it just buys pretty things. It doesn't provide substance. Oregon garnered a lot of attention because Uncle Phil's money bought them shiny facilities and glittery uniforms. Well, guess what? Other schools, including the traditional powers, started upgrading their facilities too.

So now, Oregon has to come up with something more than matching shoes and purses to maintain/return to prominence. That's usually where a teams tradition (that Oregon mocked a little while back) comes in to play. We'll see if Oregon can do it or not.

Even in a down year, last year, Oregon had a better record than USC who went to the CCG. In fact, I believe that OU had the second best record in the PAC last year while USC edged Utah for the South with, what, six wins? USC is a "traditional power" (if they haven't lost that label), and has advantages that money can't buy and never could buy, so Uncle Phil's money doesn't play here. An "elite" team rebounds from bumps in the road and moves on. I guess an "elite" team is one or becomes one when we fans believe they are. USC is working hard to shed that image IMO.

 

[trojanfan12]

Even in a down year, last year, Oregon had a better record than USC who went to the CCG. In fact, I believe that OU had the second best record in the PAC last year while USC edged Utah for the South with, what, six wins? USC is a "traditional power" (if they haven't lost that label), and has advantages that money can't buy and never could buy, so Uncle Phil's money doesn't play here. An "elite" team rebounds from bumps in the road and moves on. I guess an "elite" team is one or becomes one when we fans believe they are. USC is working hard to shed that image IMO.

Name one other team in the country that can go through the sanctions USC did and never have a losing record.

That makes USC still a traditional power.

Also, I'm not sure you understand the term traditional power. What does Oregon's record last year have to with them being a traditional power? Oregon isn't even winning the North anymore. Stanford has won it 3 of the last 4 seasons.

 

[socaljim242]

Even in a down year, last year, Oregon had a better record than USC who went to the CCG. In fact, I believe that OU had the second best record in the PAC last year while USC edged Utah for the South with, what, six wins? USC is a "traditional power" (if they haven't lost that label), and has advantages that money can't buy and never could buy, so Uncle Phil's money doesn't play here. An "elite" team rebounds from bumps in the road and moves on. I guess an "elite" team is one or becomes one when we fans believe they are. USC is working hard to shed that image IMO.

First of all USC has more Rose Bowl wins since 2000 than Oregon has in its history and thats including these years that USC was under sanctions and Oregon was at its best. Alabama ,when given less sanctions than USC had losing seasons. So no ,USC hasn't lost it's traditional power title or status and no, Oregon isn't even close to that type of legacy. In over 100 years they finally won a couple Rose Bowls and had chances to win a NC and never did and is now is just good, not great.

 

[wazzu31]

I'm only saying no other program has been at a crossroads with the backing of an athletic companies backing.

All the glittery things and amazing facilities is where I am saying Oregon made the huge mistake. They had a window to be the big boy program but chose to stay with the track star philosophy, which has worked to a point but the fast pace gimmick offense isn't how blue bloods became blue bloods. Blue bloods dictate how their opponents play, Oregon's run has always been successful until they ran into a team that dictates to them how they will play, Stanford, Auburn, Ohio state etc.

The main problem IMO with Oregon is you need the perfect type of QB. There in lies the problem with a specific gimmick. It isn't a system that can evolve to new players like the wishbone, student bodies, options, veers and pro style offenses.

 

[Olyduck]

I'm only saying no other program has been at a crossroads with the backing of an athletic companies backing.

All the glittery things and amazing facilities is where I am saying Oregon made the huge mistake. They had a window to be the big boy program but chose to stay with the track star philosophy, which has worked to a point but the fast pace gimmick offense isn't how blue bloods became blue bloods. Blue bloods dictate how their opponents play, Oregon's run has always been successful until they ran into a team that dictates to them how they will play, Stanford, Auburn, Ohio state etc.

The main problem IMO with Oregon is you need the perfect type of QB. There in lies the problem with a specific gimmick. It isn't a system that can evolve to new players like the wishbone, student bodies, options, veers and pro style offenses.

not entirely true because Oregon has beat Stanford and beat teams that tried to dictate time like Wisconsin, Florida State, Michigan State, Kansas State and Texas.
the narrative that Oregon can't beat bigger physical teams is a clouded in that while yes they have lost to teams that fit that description they have beat some too. but they have also lost a few to teams that dont fit that description.

 

[TheLonestarDUCK]

First of all USC has more Rose Bowl wins since 2000 than Oregon has in its history and thats including these years that USC was under sanctions and Oregon was at its best. Alabama ,when given less sanctions than USC had losing seasons. So no ,USC hasn't lost it's traditional power title or status and no, Oregon isn't even close to that type of legacy. In over 100 years they finally won a couple Rose Bowls and had chances to win a NC and never did and is now is just good, not great.

The Rose Bowl argument is a little flawed. You are forgetting or not mentioning that Oregon won 2 BCS Fiesta Bowls due to the BCS rotation. More than likely they would have won the Rose Bowl in those years.

Is Oregon a traditional power? Not even close. They have been a recent power, but it would take 4 or 5 more decades of being ranked with a few nattys. Then maybe 50 years from now they can be mentioned with the Oklahoma, USC, & Alabama's.

 

[RaidaDave]

The Rose Bowl argument is a little flawed. You are forgetting or not mentioning that Oregon won 2 BCS Fiesta Bowls due to the BCS rotation. More than likely they would have won the Rose Bowl in those years.

Is Oregon a traditional power? Not even close. They have been a recent power, but it would take 4 or 5 more decades of being ranked with a few nattys. Then maybe 50 years from now they can be mentioned with the Oklahoma, USC, & Alabama's.

Yes. This is the one. Dead on.