THE PAC12 THREAD v.4

[CCF151]

View attachment 94862
Ryan Leaf sends his best.

 

[RegentDenali]

Paying more than other schools but stil paying under the amount that would have been against the rules. basically they got penalized for going exactly the speed limit while everyone esle was going 5 under.
for a player that never played a down for the school. and God forbid someone suggest to smaller player to go to a school that has had success with smaller backs instead of suggesting a Big 10 school that likes em big.

 

[Olyduck]

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exactly what part?
the part where they were still paying under the legal amount? the part where Seastrunk never played for Oregon? the part where suggesting to a player the size of LaMichael James or Seastrunk that they would have better success in an offense at a school like Oregon vs Wisconsin or Ohio State where backs are typically bigger?

 

[trojanfan12]

exactly what part?
the part where they were still paying under the legal amount? the part where Seastrunk never played for Oregon? the part where suggesting to a player the size of LaMichael James or Seastrunk that they would have better success in an offense at a school like Oregon vs Wisconsin or Ohio State where backs are typically bigger?

Pretty sure that schools are allowed to pay recruiting services for information on recruits, but that same recruiting service telling a kid they should go to a specific school is a violation, regardless of the reason. So, I don't know about God forbidding it, but pretty sure the NCAA does.

Also, it seems that some of the information that Oregon received (or at least what they presented to the NCAA) was on imaginary high school players since a few were already in college.

 

[Olyduck]

Pretty sure that schools are allowed to pay recruiting services for information on recruits, but that same recruiting service telling a kid they should go to a specific school is a violation, regardless of the reason. So, I don't know about God forbidding it, but pretty sure the NCAA does.

Also, it seems that some of the information that Oregon received (or at least what they presented to the NCAA) was on imaginary high school players since a few were already in college.

Can you provide evidence that he ever said go to Oregon and only oregon? or did he perhaps suggest schools like Oregon, West Virginia, Baylor (where he transferred to) over schools like Oklahoma and Wisconsin? You know like an adviser might do. pretty sure its not on the school, nor is it against the rules for the player to get advise on the best fit for them.

 

[Olyduck]

This is why Oregons sanctions and what not were not very harsh.

 

[socaljim242]

exactly what part?
the part where they were still paying under the legal amount? the part where Seastrunk never played for Oregon? the part where suggesting to a player the size of LaMichael James or Seastrunk that they would have better success in an offense at a school like Oregon vs Wisconsin or Ohio State where backs are typically bigger?

The part where they paid a guy many times more than what a recruiting service charges for basically nothing that a recruiting service does. They couldn't even come up with anything resembling a proper package like what the recruiting services deliver to justify paying the guy what services charge let alone what they payed him. So even though the amount wasn't astronomical it was paid to the guy for what he did do. Which was use his influence and push kids he had connections with to Oregon. Whether he was good at it or not whether it worked or not doesnt matter. Your argument about who ended up playing for Oregon is useless. It's like the drug dealer ripping off the vice cop by selling him baby powder instead of cocaine . You can still get prosecuted for selling. And so even though it turned out to be a bad investment they did pay for his services which was nothing like what recruiting services sell.
That's what you're conveniently ignoring.

 

[socaljim242]

Can you provide evidence that he ever said go to Oregon and only oregon? or did he perhaps suggest schools like Oregon, West Virginia, Baylor (where he transferred to) over schools like Oklahoma and Wisconsin? You know like an adviser might do. pretty sure its not on the school, nor is it against the rules for the player to get advise on the best fit for them.

The evidence was the lack of paperwork documents and film on recruits in his area at the time Oregon payed him. They paid a guy four times what a typical sercive gets and he gave them nothing usable? If that's not a red flag I don't know what is. Thats why Chip Kelly had more sanctions on him than Pete had at USC . Reggie Bush cheated , USC should have been watching better but the NCAA couldn't find anything that Pete knew or participated. With Chip it was obvious he had a hand in this attempt to skirt the process and so he was punished.

 

[socaljim242]

This is why Oregons sanctions and what not were not very harsh.

We're talking about the NCAA. They have no consistency when it comes to handing out punishment. Chip tried to buy players in Texas. Ohio State coach lies to the NCAA so his players can play in a bowl game, North Carolina has grades given to players for classes they never attended, Miami has a guy giving cash hookers jewelry and trips to as many as 70 players over a period of ten years. But USC gets the worst of it because one player and his family took money. NOt saying USC should'nt have been punished but you tell me what would have happened if USC would have been found out to have those things going on. So spare me with trying to use the punishment as evidence of just going the speed limit.

 

[trojanfan12]

Can you provide evidence that he ever said go to Oregon and only oregon? or did he perhaps suggest schools like Oregon, West Virginia, Baylor (where he transferred to) over schools like Oklahoma and Wisconsin? You know like an adviser might do. pretty sure its not on the school, nor is it against the rules for the player to get advise on the best fit for them.

Just wow. The point is, he's not supposed to recommend any school at all. The point of recruiting services is that they are hired by schools to provide information on the player because it's impossible for the coaching staff to go see/visit/know about every viable recruit.

They aren't hired by the players to research and recommend which program to go to. There are basically 2 options for Oregon in this:

1.) They paid a large sum of money to a recruiting service which did a horrible job putting together any kind decent information for them. Then chose to get Oregon in trouble by steering recruits to them and Oregon didn't sue and demand their money back. This makes Oregon incredibly stupid.

Or

2.) They paid a guy to steer recruits to their program and when they got caught tried to cover themselves by hastily putting together some information, not realizing that some of those players were already in college. Which makes them stupid and cheats.

So which is it? Are they just stupid or are they stupid cheats?

 

[Olyduck]

The part where they paid a guy many times more than what a recruiting service charges for basically nothing that a recruiting service does. They couldn't even come up with anything resembling a proper package like what the recruiting services deliver to justify paying the guy what services charge let alone what they payed him. So even though the amount wasn't astronomical it was paid to the guy for what he did do. Which was use his influence and push kids he had connections with to Oregon. Whether he was good at it or not whether it worked or not doesnt matter. Your argument about who ended up playing for Oregon is useless. It's like the drug dealer ripping off the vice cop by selling him baby powder instead of cocaine . You can still get prosecuted for selling. And so even though it turned out to be a bad investment they did pay for his services which was nothing like what recruiting services sell.
That's what you're conveniently ignoring.

If they got charged more and payed more thats not on them as much as the guy charging them.

 

[Olyduck]

The part where they paid a guy many times more than what a recruiting service charges for basically nothing that a recruiting service does. They couldn't even come up with anything resembling a proper package like what the recruiting services deliver to justify paying the guy what services charge let alone what they payed him. So even though the amount wasn't astronomical it was paid to the guy for what he did do. Which was use his influence and push kids he had connections with to Oregon. Whether he was good at it or not whether it worked or not doesnt matter. Your argument about who ended up playing for Oregon is useless. It's like the drug dealer ripping off the vice cop by selling him baby powder instead of cocaine . You can still get prosecuted for selling. And so even though it turned out to be a bad investment they did pay for his services which was nothing like what recruiting services sell.
That's what you're conveniently ignoring.

im not so sure you can get charged for selling something that isnt illegal to sell.

 

[Olyduck]

We're talking about the NCAA. They have no consistency when it comes to handing out punishment. Chip tried to buy players in Texas. Ohio State coach lies to the NCAA so his players can play in a bowl game, North Carolina has grades given to players for classes they never attended, Miami has a guy giving cash hookers jewelry and trips to as many as 70 players over a period of ten years. But USC gets the worst of it because one player and his family took money. NOt saying USC should'nt have been punished but you tell me what would have happened if USC would have been found out to have those things going on. So spare me with trying to use the punishment as evidence of just going the speed limit.

Im not so sure the who did it argument works. and not all cases are the same.

 

[Olyduck]

Just wow. The point is, he's not supposed to recommend any school at all. The point of recruiting services is that they are hired by schools to provide information on the player because it's impossible for the coaching staff to go see/visit/know about every viable recruit.

They aren't hired by the players to research and recommend which program to go to. There are basically 2 options for Oregon in this:

1.) They paid a large sum of money to a recruiting service which did a horrible job putting together any kind decent information for them. Then chose to get Oregon in trouble by steering recruits to them and Oregon didn't sue and demand their money back. This makes Oregon incredibly stupid.

Or

2.) They paid a guy to steer recruits to their program and when they got caught tried to cover themselves by hastily putting together some information, not realizing that some of those players were already in college. Which makes them stupid and cheats.

So which is it? Are they just stupid or are they stupid cheats?

again, paying more than others because thats what they were charged but still within the allotted amount.

 

[Olyduck]

we hit the circular arguing point where its the same thing being said over and over so Im done with this topic its done at the school and NCAA so im done too.

 

[trojanfan12]

again, paying more than others because thats what they were charged but still within the allotted amount.

Guess you're just going to ignore the whole "not supposed be steering players to schools" aspect. It doesn't matter if Oregon overpaid, underpaid or paid exactly what is permissible. Oregon could have paid a dollar and it's still a violation because paying to have players steered to your school is a violation.

As a violation, it's no different than if Oregon paid friends and family members of recruits to steer him towards Oregon.

 

[trojanfan12]

we hit the circular arguing point where its the same thing being said over and over so Im done with this topic its done at the school and NCAA so im done too.

The only thing circular is you ignoring the fact that Oregon paid to have players steered to the school and trying to claim it was okay because they paid an acceptable amount for a "recruiting service."

 

[Olyduck]

The only thing circular is you ignoring the fact that Oregon paid to have players steered to the school and trying to claim it was okay because they paid an acceptable amount for a "recruiting service."

1 Player associated to WL went to Oregon for 1 year

 

[socaljim242]

again, paying more than others because thats what they were charged but still within the allotted amount.

LOl. You are hilarious. It's not about how much they payed. It's that they payed a guy who didn't do a recruiting service. He was paid for his influence and direct connection to players. The fact that they paid so much shines a light on it.

 

[CCF151]

LOl. You are hilarious. It's not about how much they payed. It's that they payed a guy who didn't do a recruiting service. He was paid for his influence and direct connection to players. The fact that they paid so much shines a light on it.

Is it bugging anyone else that socal is using payed and paid in the same paragraph? Not trying to be a Grammar Gestapo, but choose one, even if it's the wrong one, and stick with it.