The offseason stuff thread

[BGDave]

Once upon a time, the Maple Leafs and Lightning had a deal in place that would have sent Vincent Lecavalier to Toronto along with another asset under the condition that he would be bought out using a compliance buyout, which would was a cap-free loophole put in place following the 2012-13 lockout. Tampa Bay would have then re-signed Lecavalier to a more team-friendly contract. The trade was vetoed by the league on the grounds that it was cap circumvention.

I know this is ancient history, but shouldn't things like compliance buyouts be considered assets, and therefore capable of being monetized?

For me, I think they should. IMO a compliance buyout is an asset just like cap room. Cap room allows teams like Arizona to monetize their cap space when they take on worthless contracts of injured players in return for other assets (players, picks etc).

If the League will allow farcical "trades" like the Hossa deal (and yes, my team has done them also) then why shouldn't the Lecavalier deal be acceptable?

As I said, ancient history, but we have another approx 8 weeks till training camp and I am getting antsy.

 

[forty_three]

If the League will allow farcical "trades" like the Hossa deal (and yes, my team has done them also) then why shouldn't the Lecavalier deal be acceptable?

I think that's what most people are saying, the next CBA needs better clarity around it. Sometimes, it's okay and sometimes it's not. So far, the only team really punished for a stupid, stupid contract was New Jersey.

But the bottom line, more often than not, GMs are being let off the hook for bad contracts which is against the spirit of the cap. LTIR was put in place for unforeseen situations, not as a standard bit of leverage.

In the current climate, large market/big dollar teams have the advantage of being able to stockpile assets while some teams who can afford to pay to the cap and really can't afford to pay additional money are at a disadvantage. Again, against the spirit of the cap.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I know this is ancient history, but shouldn't things like compliance buyouts be considered assets, and therefore capable of being monetized?

The CBA explicitly prohibits trading of cap space and trading cash, so I guess they regard trading a compliance buyout as being equivalent.

It's a clear violation of the spirit of the CBA, if not the text, so I'd like to see the league enforce it more.

 

[dash]

Capitals Re-sign Tom Wilson

The Washington Capitals have re-signed forward Tom Wilson to a six-year contract, senior vice president and general manager Brian MacLellan announced today. Wilson's contract will carry an average annual value of $5.17 million.

 

[BGDave]

Capitals Re-sign Tom Wilson

The Washington Capitals have re-signed forward Tom Wilson to a six-year contract, senior vice president and general manager Brian MacLellan announced today. Wilson's contract will carry an average annual value of $5.17 million.

 

[sbb122]

 

[DragonfromTO]

Capitals Re-sign Tom Wilson

The Washington Capitals have re-signed forward Tom Wilson to a six-year contract, senior vice president and general manager Brian MacLellan announced today. Wilson's contract will carry an average annual value of $5.17 million.

I wrote to my friend "that's a lot for a 25-30 point forward" and then realized that Wilson has actually only topped 25 points once in 5 seasons and I may have been giving him too much credit.

 

[esls79]

so Lucic for t will straight up at the trade deadline this year then?

 

[ritari330]

Capitals Re-sign Tom Wilson

The Washington Capitals have re-signed forward Tom Wilson to a six-year contract, senior vice president and general manager Brian MacLellan announced today. Wilson's contract will carry an average annual value of $5.17 million.

Objectively a bad contract, but I guess that's just the price of being a contender for years (see Blackhawks, Chicago and Kings, Los Angeles). Gotta make the most of Ovechkin and Backstrom’s final years of their prime. Deal with the fallout later.

I wrote to my friend "that's a lot for a 25-30 point forward" and then realized that Wilson has actually only topped 25 points once in 5 seasons and I may have been giving him too much credit.

I guess he needs the money because the real estate must be expensive in Pittsburgh, Long Island, Columbus...pretty much most of the Eastern Conference actually.

so Lucic for t will straight up at the trade deadline this year then?

Worth mentioning that Tom Wilson is only 24. He'll be 30 when this contract is up. Lucic was 28 when he signed his and is 30 now.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Objectively a bad contract, but I guess that's just the price of being a contender for years (see Blackhawks, Chicago and Kings, Los Angeles). Gotta make the most of Ovechkin and Backstrom’s final years of their prime. Deal with the fallout later.



I guess he needs the money because the real estate must be expensive in Pittsburgh, Long Island, Columbus...pretty much most of the Eastern Conference actually.




Worth mentioning that Tom Wilson is only 24. He'll be 30 when this contract is up. Lucic was 28 when he signed his and is 30 now.

While my memory is probably not perfect since I'm not a Kings or Blackhawks fan I can't think of who the comparable King/Blackhawk contract would be. Dustin Brown? He had a lot more production on his resumé. Seabrook is a bad contract to a legacy guy, but he is a D and was also an All-Star and an Olympian so seems like a bad comp. Who were you thinking of?

 

[thedddd]

While my memory is probably not perfect since I'm not a Kings or Blackhawks fan I can't think of who the comparable King/Blackhawk contract would be. Dustin Brown? He had a lot more production on his resumé. Seabrook is a bad contract to a legacy guy, but he is a D and was also an All-Star and an Olympian so seems like a bad comp. Who were you thinking of?

Brian Bickell is the one that comes to mind from Chicago.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Brian Bickell is the one that comes to mind from Chicago.

Ah I had forgotten about Bickell, that is actually not a bad comp. But I think it's worth noting that the Bickell contract didn't exactly end up being a "deal with the fallout later" situation but a "this contract sucks right from the start" situation.

 

[ritari330]

While my memory is probably not perfect since I'm not a Kings or Blackhawks fan I can't think of who the comparable King/Blackhawk contract would be. Dustin Brown? He had a lot more production on his resumé. Seabrook is a bad contract to a legacy guy, but he is a D and was also an All-Star and an Olympian so seems like a bad comp. Who were you thinking of?

Not thinking of individual contracts, more just the impending cap hell.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Not thinking of individual contracts, more just the impending cap hell.

The thing of course is that I would say that the way to try to avoid that cap hell and still win is to not pay up for obviously non-core pieces, guys exactly like Wilson.

 

[thedddd]

Not thinking of individual contracts, more just the impending cap hell.

Actually i think Detroit got in the most trouble and the Penguins are following suit with all the 30 year olds with contracts out for the next 3-5 years.

 

[ritari330]

The thing of course is that I would say that the way to try to avoid that cap hell and still win is to not pay up for obviously non-core pieces, guys exactly like Wilson.

Wilson kinda made himself a core guy this past season. His biggest value he adds is in that he can play with Ovechkin and Kuznetsov. The only other player that worked effectively with them is Oshie and he's a huge reason the 2nd line is a success. In ovechkin's Career the caps have always sturggled to find a consistent RW that can keep up with him. Knuble was great and so was Ward at times but they were short lived.

The caps are hoping they just signed the player to play on Ovechkin's RW for the rest of Ovechkin's career. Think there is a decent chance of that actually happening, but the contract itself is bad.

 

[dash]

I like 'em...

 

[DragonfromTO]

Wilson kinda made himself a core guy this past season. His biggest value he adds is in that he can play with Ovechkin and Kuznetsov. The only other player that worked effectively with them is Oshie and he's a huge reason the 2nd line is a success. In ovechkin's Career the caps have always sturggled to find a consistent RW that can keep up with him. Knuble was great and so was Ward at times but they were short lived.

The caps are hoping they just signed the player to play on Ovechkin's RW for the rest of Ovechkin's career. Think there is a decent chance of that actually happening, but the contract itself is bad.

I can't help but think that "keeping up with" your linemates should lead to you being within 50 points of them, no? While Wilson might be a better fit than some higher scoring players I find it kind of hard to believe that it's difficult to find anyone who plays similarly and also manages to produce some offense, especially if you're prepared to pay $31 million for 6 years.

 

[thedddd]

Wilson kinda made himself a core guy this past season. His biggest value he adds is in that he can play with Ovechkin and Kuznetsov. The only other player that worked effectively with them is Oshie and he's a huge reason the 2nd line is a success. In ovechkin's Career the caps have always sturggled to find a consistent RW that can keep up with him. Knuble was great and so was Ward at times but they were short lived.

The caps are hoping they just signed the player to play on Ovechkin's RW for the rest of Ovechkin's career. Think there is a decent chance of that actually happening, but the contract itself is bad.

Hence why Crosby > Ovechkin since Crosby can have these as line mates:

Just kidding

Seriously if he has the chemistry and works with AO then there is value from the Cap's perspective.
Example....Chris Kunitz

 

[elocomotive]

Capitals Re-sign Tom Wilson

The Washington Capitals have re-signed forward Tom Wilson to a six-year contract, senior vice president and general manager Brian MacLellan announced today. Wilson's contract will carry an average annual value of $5.17 million.

Nice! That seems just about right to me. I thought he'd probably get about $4.5 - $5.5 million per year, so that seems right in the range I expected. While it probably is objectively a little much, I don't mind paying a guy $5 mil per that plays more like a $3 mil per guy. What kills you are the $7-8 mil per that play like $3 mil guys. And like mortgages, loans, etc., what might seem a little high now often levels out 3-4 years down the road as the cap rises.

Hell of a week for the Caps locking up Tommy and getting Brooks Orpik back for a million bucks. This team is solidly positioned for the next 2-3 years with maybe the best D-corp in hockey and solid top 6 forwards. After that, how they change (or don't) in OV and Backstrom's latter years will be interesting to watch.

This has to be disappointing to rising teams in the Metro/East thinking the Caps were in the death rattle of the OV era. McClellan has managed to keep them a Cup contender now and with a path into the future. It's frankly some outstanding work from GMBM.

But nobody would believe that they executed this trade to Colorado without an agreement - in principal at least - that the Avs would buy him out and they'd be able to re-sign him for much less money and cap hit. I don't see how it's any different than if they had just traded Grubauer to Colorado for a few million of Colorado's cap space.

So, a question related to that. If the Avs put him on waivers and bought him out, doesn't every team in the league have a chance to sign him at that point?