The offense

[SonnyCID]

All that matters is that they are here.

The Hawks got here by being conservative on offense recently. The niners got here by being aggressive with their playcallung recently. And I think that aggressiveness will bite them in the ass against this defense if they try to take chances.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I get frustrated with offense at times, but overall I have little to complain about. The offense is not actually about offense, it's about defense. The offense is designed to specifically help out the defense. It is designed to eat clock, give them rest and to score enough to allow them to perform. In games that Seattle has played this season there have been 1963 plays for 9802 yards by both teams. That's a mere 122.7 plays for 612.6 yards. Compare that to Denver, 2230 plays for 13013 yards, 139.4 plays for 813.3 yards per game.

Not only has Denver given up 1300 more yards on 84 more plays than Seattle's defense, but it's also 500 more yards allowed by Denver than Seattle's offense has gained.

In Denver, the offense is a weapon, and leaves the defense exposed. In Seattle, the offense is a shield protecting the defense, allowing it to be the weapon. Despite the exact opposite philosophies, Denver outscored opponents by 207 points, Seattle 186. No that much different.

Yes I agree that the offense it set up to eat the clock and help the defense that way, but of course if you go 3 and out, that's not helping the defense. The offense needs be more effecient, especially when trying to throw the ball.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Carroll is all over the record of saying this is what they want to run. He has said so in press conferences for years. Yes, they played a different style at USC, but I'm not sure I've heard of high power teams running conservative offenses at that level. You exploit the talent difference you have by going all at it. The NFL is different.

Since they've had lynch they have the back they wanted to build their offense around and haven't been a big pass team since. They weren't before him and got even more run first and conservative passing after.

Thought I would add one last thought here, I would have no problem with a Run first offense. It's old school football and I actually like it, but they need a better OL if this is the way they go. One that can run block and pass block. I think this offense could kick ass with a better OL.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I think inserting Bowie at LG as already improved this line. I think the pass protection issue is improving itself, it didnt seem like Russell was under tremendous pressure that much last week. I think it comes down to play calling, and Russell taking a couple more chances. I think the whole protect the ball mantra has made the offense vanilla at times. The reality is the part of the Niner D to attack is the back end. Carson Palmer went for around 400 yards a couple weeks ago. Russell actually had 153 yards passing in the 1st half of the last matchup in SF. They just didnt see the ball much in the 2nd half. They have to be less predictable this week, especially against a team that knows us so well.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Well I agree the Ol has gotten better with Bowie and agree with the thought that that they have to be less predictable.I do think the Seahawks ( also the 49ers) will have some plays drawn up just for this game.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Yup, thats why I really hope Harvin is able to play for obvious reasons. He will give a lot of different looks that the Niners wont have a lot of previous tape on to prepare for.

 

[Logicallylethal]

Which component deserves the most blame for our inability to generate offense lately?

Here's my list in no specific order

a) Russell Wilson
- His throws have had a tendency to be high lately and last week he was off on the most simplest slant throws that he makes 10/10 times earlier in the year. The numbers don't lie...Russell has not been his usual self. He has never been prolific throwing the ball but when he needed to make a throw and hit a receiver he has usually done it. Lately, I feel like his pocket awareness has been a little bad. Sometimes his roll outs away from no pressure or only a little pressure would actually bring him towards more pressure and would result in a sack or incomplete throw away.

b) Wide Receivers not getting separation
- We all love our guys, their play making ability in open field, and especially their ability to go up and get the ball. However, there's no denying the fact that these guys struggle on a consistent basis to get separation and get open for Russell. Most of our big plays are either on great jump ball catches or off a broken play. Rarely is it ever off an initial route.

c) Offensive Line's inability to protect
- I know exactly what's wrong with our O-line...it's Russell Okung. Last year he was playing like an all pro and simply dominated down the stretch to finish the year. And it showed in our run game (we averaged nearly 200 yds rushing in our final like 7-8 games last year) and for Russell especially in the Atlanta game he was able to play his best given time to throw. So far this year our O-line has been ravaged with injuries but lately even when we are supposedly healthy they are still getting beat up front.

d) Bevell's play calling
- Is his play calling too conservative at times? Has he sort of regressed to the play calling early 2012 before they took the reigns off of Russell? How much of that is because of Pete's conservative philosophy? Has he gone more conservative because simply Russell has sort of regressed so in a sense he has had to regress the playbook to slowly bring Russell back? Or does Bevell just suck at calling plays?

e) Other teams have just played/game planned us really well
- So much blame for everything but hey how about teams are just playing and game planning us really well. We have faced some tough defenses down the stretch and unlike last year we havent really added any new wrinkles to our offense. It's quite possible that teams have finally gotten enough tape on Russell and his tendencies that they're able to game plan and have a blue print to slow him down.


How would you guys rank those 5 listed components? Which one deserves the most blame and which one the least?

I would rank them like this (with blame percentages too)

1) Wide receivers not getting separation (35 % blame)
2) Other teams have just played/game planned us really well (30 % blame)
3) Russell Wilson (20 % blame)
4) Offensive Line's inability to protect (10 % blame)
5) Bevell's play calling (5 % blame)

 

[Perpetual_Beast_Mode]

Your ranking and percentages strike me as pretty accurate.

 

[WizardHawk]

I believe they get to conservative when they get a lead. This tends to slow the offense down forcing to many 3rd and longs. This is all part of "not trying to make mistakes" type of approach. I just feel they need to move away from this thinking. if you believe the team will make a mistake then they will so you got to have more faith in the players you have hand selected. They talk about putting players in the best position to succeed yet lately they are just putting them in position to not fail. Hope that clears it up for you.

If this is what you believe, the Bevell isn't your top pick out of the choices I gave. The scheme is. Carroll sets that agenda and tone. Bevell makes it work.

That's kind of my point. Many are blaming Bevell for things beyond his control. He isn't the head coach. He isn't the one deciding to go boring/conservative with a lead. Those decisions are made by the HC. On every team where a coordinator calls plays the HC will still tell them to do things like I want you to run it and let them decide what run or tell them to slow it down and run out the clock or similar. So some of the play calls you question are just the best of what he was asked to do. Carroll and the other coaches have their input.

I still stand by my claim that if you add Harvin all year no one is questioning Bevell. If you had a half way decent (not best, just average) pass protection we aren't questioning Bevell. He is just the one people are turning their frustration to when it is a combination of things beyond his control.

 

[Screamin12th]

If this is what you believe, the Bevell isn't your top pick out of the choices I gave. The scheme is. Carroll sets that agenda and tone. Bevell makes it work.

That's kind of my point. Many are blaming Bevell for things beyond his control. He isn't the head coach. He isn't the one deciding to go boring/conservative with a lead. Those decisions are made by the HC. On every team where a coordinator calls plays the HC will still tell them to do things like I want you to run it and let them decide what run or tell them to slow it down and run out the clock or similar. So some of the play calls you question are just the best of what he was asked to do. Carroll and the other coaches have their input.

I still stand by my claim that if you add Harvin all year no one is questioning Bevell. If you had a half way decent (not best, just average) pass protection we aren't questioning Bevell. He is just the one people are turning their frustration to when it is a combination of things beyond his control.

again i never said anything about Bevell, i said play calling and anyone that knows anything knows Bevell only calls the plays he is given. This has nothing to do with Bevell and everything to do with the plays they have in the game plan. They are playing to not make mistakes and you can not play that way and expect to get the best out of your players. when you play to not make mistakes you are playing tight. they need to get out there and play loose. Like the Defense is doing.

 

[WizardHawk]

again i never said anything about Bevell, i said play calling and anyone that knows anything knows Bevell only calls the plays he is given. This has nothing to do with Bevell and everything to do with the plays they have in the game plan. They are playing to not make mistakes and you can not play that way and expect to get the best out of your players. when you play to not make mistakes you are playing tight. they need to get out there and play loose. Like the Defense is doing.

Right. All I was doing was again, looking for those who think Bevell is the change that would bring about the most impact to yards/score on the offense and I re identified you to more blaming the scheme.

 

[Podunkparte]

My problem is not with the "conservativeness" of the play calling, because I do not agree with that premise at all.

is it conservative to throw the ball on 13 out of 15 third downs? is it conservative to go 5 wide with empty backfield on 3rd and short? Is it conservative to throw the ball THREE TIMES with 1st and goal inside the 5?

if we were playing conservatively, we dont throw the ball on 3rd and 3 with under 4 minutes left and the game on the line. what we are playing is stupid, or better yet, attempting to out smart the defense and in the process outsmarting ourselves.

Thanks Snuggles. It is not conservative to go with an empty back set on 3rd and 2 when you have a RB who absolutely has to be accounted for by the defense in those situations. It's just stupid play calling.

Even if you don't run the ball in that situation, you need to have Lynch back there to give the receivers a little help by making the Defense respect the option of Lynch getting those 2 yards, which is something he does rather easily.

 

[WizardHawk]

All good to me. Just trying to make it easier. If we are going to have this conversation it's much tougher to do so across two threads. I made mine looking for all opinions, but really wanting to find out if any of our people really put Bevell as a bigger road block than the WR's, Line, Wilson, and the overall scheme/Carroll. So far no one is picking Bevell at the top.

 

[FirebreathingMonkey]

Anyone else think we might go back to full back Michael Roberson run on third and short. I think it would be a great play to use because we have not done it all year. Unlike last year where in Alt everyone and there mom know it was the play call in the second half because we had used in against D.C and for the last three weeks last year. I think it would be a great mixed in call for Sunday.

 

[WizardHawk]

My problem is not with the "conservativeness" of the play calling, because I do not agree with that premise at all.

is it conservative to throw the ball on 13 out of 15 third downs? is it conservative to go 5 wide with empty backfield on 3rd and short? Is it conservative to throw the ball THREE TIMES with 1st and goal inside the 5?

if we were playing conservatively, we dont throw the ball on 3rd and 3 with under 4 minutes left and the game on the line. what we are playing is stupid, or better yet, attempting to out smart the defense and in the process outsmarting ourselves.

Not sure you are asking the right questions. Passing plays can still be conservative plays and some runs are not. Some of those pass plays are very high percentage/low risk plays.

When you watch Manning, Brady, or other teams more willing to go full on passing attack you see them threading the needle into double coverage and otherwise making crazy tight throws. They miss a few and sometimes get burned, but also enjoy the big plays out of it.

Wilson and Kaepernick both are not asked, nor even allowed to do that. Both coaches don't want to live or die by big momentum changing turnovers. So while other QB's are reading all routes looking for any even small advantage, these two are asked to look for only low risk openings in their progression. The risk then is simply that you get no yards on a drop more than the risk of a turnover, but you have those risks on runs as well and even worse since those can end in lost yards.

 

[Screamin12th]

I really wish more people watched the coaches tape. Open receivers ( separation ) is not that big of a issue. Missing those receivers is and that also jumps into the pass blocking issue as Russell doesn't have time to go through his progression. Wish i could link some video's for you all to see but that is against the rules and i would need permission from the NFL. Yeah like that's going to happen. Against the Saints there was at least 5 passing plays where Russell missed the open man. Think about that 5 out of the 18 attempts he had. ( plus a few he ran with )

 

[dude82]

I really wish more people watched the coaches tape. Open receivers ( separation ) is not that big of a issue. Missing those receivers is and that also jumps into the pass blocking issue as Russell doesn't have time to go through his progression. Wish i could link some video's for you all to see but that is against the rules and i would need permission from the NFL. Yeah like that's going to happen. Against the Saints there was at least 5 passing plays where Russell missed the open man. Think about that 5 out of the 18 attempts he had. ( plus a few he ran with )

Doesn't that cost money?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Doesn't that cost money?

Yeah it does, but not a fortune. However you have to have the spare time to actually watch them. I paid for it a couple of years ago, but found that I didn't make the time to watch very often.

 

[dude82]

Yeah it does, but not a fortune. However you have to have the spare time to actually watch them. I paid for it a couple of years ago, but found that I didn't make the time to watch very often.

I see. I just checked it out and while it may not cost a fortune, my spending habits are pretty focused on needs over wants right now. Maybe next season.

 

[MrS]

I really wish more people watched the coaches tape. Open receivers ( separation ) is not that big of a issue. Missing those receivers is and that also jumps into the pass blocking issue as Russell doesn't have time to go through his progression. Wish i could link some video's for you all to see but that is against the rules and i would need permission from the NFL. Yeah like that's going to happen. Against the Saints there was at least 5 passing plays where Russell missed the open man. Think about that 5 out of the 18 attempts he had. ( plus a few he ran with )

Why is he missing them? because he has no time or is he bailing out too early? I rewatched the game and I did not see any passing plays where Wilson stood in the pocket for an extended time. He seemed to have pressure in his face within a few seconds on almost every play.