The Off-Season Thread

[MHSL82]

Have you already forgotten about the RFA contract to Jason Terry and Corey Maggette in 2003? Those were legit players at those times, it's just too bad they were restricted.

Then in 2004, they got unrestricted future All-Stars, Mehmet Okur and Carlos Boozer, paint abuser.

Those players signed because they knew they were going to be matched. Free agents don't want to sign with Utah... unless it is to screw over Cleveland or are from Turkey. But if they averaged what I put up there, they will sign for the big bucks. By big bucks, I just mean more than they are worth, not necessarily big bucks. We need to overpay to get people here.

 

[nuraman00]

Those players signed because they knew they were going to be matched. Free agents don't want to sign with Utah... unless it is to screw over Cleveland or are from Turkey. But if they averaged what I put up there, they will sign for the big bucks. By big bucks, I just mean more than they are worth, not necessarily big bucks. We need to overpay to get people here.

I disagree.

Arenas went to Washington.

Divac went to Sacramento.

Joe Johnson went to Atlanta.

Steve Nash went to a 29 win Phoenix team, the worst at that time in their franchise's history.

Harden went to Houston.

I've said it before, but recruiting FAs is a sales job. You have to tell them how they're going to turn it around, and how you're going to provide them with the resources.

I'm not a big Stoudemire fan, but you know what he said to Steve Nash in 2004? "If we get you, it's in the bag". Now THAT's a sales job.

That's what the Jazz FO, along with Hayward, Kanter, and Favors, should be saying to potential FAs. Players should call/text and say how they can't wait to play with those FAs, and the FO should tell them how they're going to build around them, and how they'll get all the shots and playing time they want.

Previously, Terry/Maggette/Okur/Boozer signed offer sheets or contracts, because they wanted to play for the Jazz. The current players at the time, plus the FO and Sloan, must have done a good sales job convincing them how good they'd look wearing mountains on their jerseys.

The current FO and players need to show that same kind of commitment.

I will similarly say that Millsap signed with Portland because he wanted to be there.

 

[nuraman00]

Al Jefferson to the Charlotte Bobcats. Three years, 41 million. 13.7 million per.

Paul Milsapp and DeMare Caroll to Atlanta Hawks. Two years, 19 million. 9.5 per.

So that's 23.2 million a year. Richard Jefferson (10.164 M), Brandon Rush (4 Million), Biedrens (9 Million) = 23.164 Million.

Not saying we could keep Jefferson and Milsapp, because they wanted to leave, but man, same cost, worse players. But those draft picks and cash later, I suppose.

They're better but you don't win more.

 

[nuraman00]

Here are some good FA tracker links:

Cap Space:

The amount of cap room teams will actually have | ShamSports.com

FA Tracker:

NBA free agency tracker 2013: Latest signings, analysis | The Point Forward - SI.com

2013 NBA Free Agents - CBSSports.com

 

[BroncoInCALI]

I actually like what we have done.....

Those Golden State guys will come off the books and we will have some serious cap space going into next off season.

We will also hold all those draft picks that could lead to a trade up for Jabari Parker on draft day. (Interesting background which could lead to him wanting to be in Utah).

In the meantime, they will get a long look at all the youngsters on the roster. I like the direction. (New poster on this Jazz board. Posted on CBS before it imploded. Jazz fan since the Thurl Bailey era.....lol)

 

[MHSL82]

I actually like what we have done.....

Those Golden State guys will come off the books and we will have some serious cap space going into next off season.

We will also hold all those draft picks that could lead to a trade up for Jabari Parker on draft day. (Interesting background which could lead to him wanting to be in Utah).

In the meantime, they will get a long look at all the youngsters on the roster. I like the direction. (New poster on this Jazz board. Posted on CBS before it imploded. Jazz fan since the Thurl Bailey era.....lol)

Welcome! Feel free to introduce yourself on the http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/utah-jazz/103661-espn-members-welcome-aboard.html thread, even though you are from CBS. In fact, I'll change the title, now.

 

[MHSL82]

http://www.nba.com/jazz/video/games/jazz/2013/07/07/20130707-mia-uta-sl-recap.nba/index.html

 

[MHSL82]

I wish Kidd weren't the Nets coach. Maybe Dallas or Phoenix? I want him to succeed because he seems like he's a good guy to everyone but his wife. (Actually, that prevents me from rooting for him, too). But I just don't want Deron to succeed. Call me a hater, but sure. I don't hate Williams for his skills, as in, I know he's good, just don't like him for the way he was in the last year.

Jason Kidd's coaching debut a first step

 

[JazzMatt13]

Sup bros.

I am glad Kidd retired, if he spent 2-3 more good years in NBA he could have got pretty close to Stockton's records. Actually I am pointing out, Jason Kidd is only guy who could ever beat those records, and now it is official, Stockton's records will never be beaten, Kidd will always be #2 in Total Assists and Steals by a large margin! Nash is still going but, he needs 5,500 assists, which ain't happening.

 

[MHSL82]

Sup bros.

I am glad Kidd retired, if he spent 2-3 more good years in NBA he could have got pretty close to Stockton's records. Actually I am pointing out, Jason Kidd is only guy who could ever beat those records, and now it is official, Stockton's records will never be beaten, Kidd will always be #2 in Total Assists and Steals by a large margin! Nash is still going but, he needs 5,500 assists, which ain't happening.

Welcome aboard! Feel free to introduce yourself on the ESPN/CBS Members: Welcome Aboard! thread.

I am big on assists for PGs but even bigger on Stockton keeping his records. Since he didn't win a championship, that's the one thing he has to be given at least part of his due.

Incidentally, Stockton is writing an autobiography to be released on October 28th. He says that despite the fact that the two Finals appearances were a highlight of his career, he didn't have much to say about it because he lost. Also, he talked about the decision to retire and that was it was based upon teammates disagreement. They felt Stockon and Malone were getting special treatment. It was a worry that he had never worried about before. The level of aches and pains were new, too. He said the way that he responded to those challenges, showed that it was the time to go.

 

[MHSL82]

Cleveland Cavaliers offer Andrew Bynum 2-year contract

They have to offer him two years, because, how else would they get one?

 

[MHSL82]

NBA free-agent signings good or bad deals?

 

[JazzMatt13]

The best FA trading team, in terms of what they wanted, and they got, I would put Utah in top 5, next to Houston. Dallas definitely didn't get anything they wanted, and would probably be dead last on my list. Mark Cuban hasn't done good at all.


A lot of the actions we have taken are all based on what we already have, and what we don't need anymore. All of the old players go under that category (including Marvin who we don't want any way).

Meaning we have better replacements for them all, but in trading FA's, we needed replacements for guys replacing starters:

*Old < New > Replacement for New's old position (Mouth opens to bigger/better player...sort of):

Watson < Neto
Mo < Burke
Foye < Burks > Rush
Carroll < Evans > R.Jefferson
Millsap < Kanter > Bierdins
Jefferson < Favors > Gobert
Murphy < McNeal
Marvin < Hayward
Tinsley > (insert backup vet PG)

The old saying "Out with the old, and in with the new"!

 

[MHSL82]

Matt, what kind of timeline do you put on us winning the trades overall? Next year with good draft use? Two years, when all the young guys have been given major minutes? What do you think of Corbin as coach? Would you rather have Hornacek? (Out of those two. Nuraman would say, "neither" despite him knowing full well that that wasn't an option.) I don't have much confidence in Corbin, but he has one and a half year's experience and Hornacek is a newbie with little assistant coaching.

What are your thoughts on Malone and Sloan? I think I know a bit from your first post on Stockton.

 

[MHSL82]

Dwight Howard wanted end to Kobe Bryant era with Los Angeles Lakers

Some of these things bug me on how extrapolated some claims can be. I mean, there are some things he just wouldn't tell others. This "source familiar with blah blah blah" stuff is like how players always claim context when they get in trouble for what they say. I know we wouldn't get any news if names were released but the "sources" get annoying to me.

 

[MHSL82]

Jazz to sign John Lucas III | ksl.com

 

[Sackataters]

Who the hell is John Lucas III? Why not resign Jamal? Maybe he wanted to win in his last year or two.

 

[Sackataters]

I heard somewhere that the Larkin kid is having a foot surgery. I thought we were going to draft him. Guess now that they have Calderon it doesn't matter too much for them.

 

[MHSL82]

Who the hell is John Lucas III? Why not resign Jamal? Maybe he wanted to win in his last year or two.

The sports news guy said that the signing of John Lucas meant that Trey Burkes was going to start and not come off the bench this first year. But I think that would have been true with Tinsley and almost any PG available. When I say available, I mean, free agency or more tradable than Rajon Rondo.

 

[nuraman00]

Excerpt from what I wrote last night, from an email to BlueMoon_76:

++++++++++++++

Al Jefferson's defense was a huge problem. Kanter + Favors are better defensively. The numbers back it up. They have to get more consistent on offense, and show they're capable of creating their offense.

Millsap played at 1/2 speed last year. He seemed a bit slow, and wasn't rebounding like he used to. He also has turned more into a midrange jump shooter, than he was when he first game into the league. His defense is also bad.

Jefferson and Millsap were expensive and had big flaws. Not worth it.

I liked Tinsley as a backup PG. Let's see what Burke does as a starter.

Jazz should have pursued Iguodala or Josh Smith though, they would have been great fits.

Jazz aren't going to be bad enough to really tank for 2014. Charlotte, Orlando, Phoenix, Philadelphia will be easily worse. I could see Portland being worse, teams don't always improve. Toronto is highly variable IMO. I don't like Cleveland's offense, I could see them struggling too. Most of these teams should be worse than Utah.