the myth of OG drafted in top 5

[redskinsfan]

well then you should have said that while you were downgrading my stance as well as sharks what i see here is a bunch of gobble de gook back tracking because you were proven wrong on your assertion that no OG in history was drafted in the top 5

my lifetime is my lifetime and history is history period

you used that phrase to dismiss my talking point . all this other garbage could never have been interpreted from what you wrote

i dont want to hear about apples to apples guards are guards period

Apart from the textual disconnect, my point still has merit. The guys you're citing to are ancient history. Thus, despite lack of linguistic congruence on this issue, those guys are irrelevant to this analysis.

 

[skinsdad62]

your original point has no merit history says OGs have been drafted in the top 5 the rest you should have said upfront

 

[skinsdad62]

Scherff right now is a much better prospect than Martin was. Same with Frederick. The Cowboys reached for both of those guys and turned out well. Even so, the problem with doing that is you pass up on other players that are legit first rounders when you could've gotten both in the second or third round. That's the problem with reaching.

you pass on nothing because you dont know if other teams did their homework too . they may have lost their chance to get 2 Pb interior o/lineman looking for mr goodbar

 

[redskinsfan]

you pass on nothing because you dont know if other teams did their homework too . they may have lost their chance to get 2 Pb interior o/lineman looking for mr goodbar

Huh? If you could've gotten both of those guys later, you, by definition, passed up on other first rounder prospects just like the Raiders did with Gallery. The only thing you hope then is that the people you passed up on busted.

 

[skinsdad62]

Huh? If you could've gotten both of those guys later, you, by definition, passed up on other first rounder prospects just like the Raiders did with Gallery. The only thing you hope then is that the people you passed up on busted.

well you most likely wouldnt have gotten martin if you passed and the same could have been said of frederick

i dont know how gallery is in this topic because he was a LT and most people feel its ok to draft a LT that high and gallery was thought of as a 1st rounder

and again i will take the 2 pro bowlers and the all [pro instead of some mythical pick and what he might be

now the pundits had those guys being drafted but the real guys said they were 1st rounders

 

[redskinsfan]

well you most likely wouldnt have gotten martin if you passed and the same could have been said of frederick

i dont know how gallery is in this topic because he was a LT and most people feel its ok to draft a LT that high and gallery was thought of as a 1st rounder

and again i will take the 2 pro bowlers and the all [pro instead of some mythical pick and what he might be

now the pundits had those guys being drafted but the real guys said they were 1st rounders

You're really missing the point again. First of all, I'm talking about the process used by the Cowboys in making selections, not the results they ultimately obtained. Reaching for two guys that were projected third rounders is hardly doing your homework. It's more like reaching in desperation to pick someone way ahead of where they're valued. How is there any merit to that? And the Gallery point is being made to show what happens when you blow value in making a pick: you miss out on other guys you could've had earlier on.

 

[skinsdad62]

You're really missing the point again. First of all, I'm talking about the process used by the Cowboys in making selections, not the results they ultimately obtained. Reaching for two guys that were projected third rounders is hardly doing your homework. It's more like reaching in desperation to pick someone way ahead of where they're valued. How is there any merit to that? And the Gallery point is being made to show what happens when you blow value in making a pick: you miss out on other guys you could've had earlier on.

i am not missing your point at all i disagree with it . they made their luck and didnt listen to the pundits who knew less then they did

the gallery pick means nothing because at the time he was rated a top pick as was mandarich all that shows is you need to do your homework and make the right choice

if you see a player you like dont get cute take him .

 

[Sharkinva]

You're really missing the point again. First of all, I'm talking about the process used by the Cowboys in making selections, not the results they ultimately obtained. Reaching for two guys that were projected third rounders is hardly doing your homework. It's more like reaching in desperation to pick someone way ahead of where they're valued. How is there any merit to that? And the Gallery point is being made to show what happens when you blow value in making a pick: you miss out on other guys you could've had earlier on.

Far be it for me to be a dick and point out that some mocks had Martin going as high as 12th last year...


2014 NFL Mock Draft - WalterFootball.com

NFL Draft Mock 2014 | NFL Draft Mock Draft

2014 NFL Mock Draft: Khalil Mack selected No. 1 by Houston Texans | The MMQB with Peter King



So while I agree Fredricks was likely considered a reach, Martin in no way shape or form was a reach for the Cowboys. It was a SMART pick that worked out flawlessly and we would be lucky as fuck if Scot Mc made such a bold and decisive move to unfuck our o-line.

 

[Stymietee]

Far be it for me to be a dick and point out that some mocks had Martin going as high as 12th last year

So while I agree Fredricks was likely considered a reach, Martin in no way shape or form was a reach for the Cowboys. It was a SMART pick that worked out flawlessly and we would be lucky as fuck if Scot Mc made such a bold and decisive move to unfuck our o-line.

Heyyyyyyyy............what is "unfuck?" LMAO ( mind if I use it from time to time?)

 

[Sharkinva]

Heyyyyyyyy............what is "unfuck?" LMAO ( mind if I use it from time to time?)

Unfuck-- To fix, correct or otherwise rectify a situation that can only be described as fucked up.

See Drill Instructor, USMC

Correct Usage--- You had best unfuck yourself or I will unscrew your head and shit down your neck.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

some prominent posters say that no OG has been drafted in the top 5 in the history of the NFL i am about to debunk that falsehood passed off as fact
here is the official draft history of NFL.com the official records keeper on the NFL

the list is as follows

1941 rudy mucha 3rd overall
47 fritz barzilaukas 3rd overall
60 roger davis 3rd overall
73 john hannah 4th overall HOF OG regarded as best ever at his position OG
74 john hicks 3rd overall
75 ken huff 3rd overall
83 chris hinton 4th overall 7x pro bowler 1 time all pro
* bill fralic 2nd overall
* jonathon ogden 2nd overall
2001 leanard davis 2nd overall

* i find these 2 debatable ogden played LT most of his career however he is listed as OG as is Fralic

the 1st 3 on the list are ancient history in football terms and were before i was born however history is history the COMPLETE history

73 on are guys in my lifetime and most likely the debaters lifetimes as well and as such should hold more credence

so ;lets put the history debate myth to bed now shall we ?

LOL. If you want to play semantics yes you are right, a guard has been taken high But trotting out examples from World War II hardly means you closed the book on this discussion.

Ogden was a tackle. He played tackle for 4 years at UCLA and then his entire career at tackle in Baltimore. So you have Davis, who clearly was a mistake and shows what can happen when you over draft a guard, Fralic and Hinton who were studs, and then guys who played before the invention of the push button telephone. LOL at declaring victory with this argument.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Unfuck-- To fix, correct or otherwise rectify a situation that can only be described as fucked up.

See Drill Instructor, USMC

Correct Usage--- You had best unfuck yourself or I will unscrew your head and shit down your neck.

OK I just saw this after putting up my post. Looks like I missed some good stuff.

 

[Stymietee]

Unfuck-- To fix, correct or otherwise rectify a situation that can only be described as fucked up.

See Drill Instructor, USMC

Correct Usage--- You had best unfuck yourself or I will unscrew your head and shit down your neck.

 

[j_y19]

Unfuck-- To fix, correct or otherwise rectify a situation that can only be described as fucked up.

See Drill Instructor, USMC

Correct Usage--- You had best unfuck yourself or I will unscrew your head and shit down your neck.

Another sharkism. You gotta love it.

 

[Sharkinva]

Another sharkism. You gotta love it.

Wish I could claim that one, but it was coined by a Drill Instructor long before I was born.

Although I did first hear the term from my Dad at around age 7.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'm trying to decide if I should use Shark's phrase on my boss or my wife.

 

[j_y19]

I'm trying to decide if I should use Shark's phrase on my boss or my wife.

Either one could get expensive...

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I'm trying to decide if I should use Shark's phrase on my boss or my wife.

Yes. Plz report reaction!

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I couldn't decide so I did both. Does anyone know a good divorce lawyer and resume writer?

 

[redskinsfan]

i am not missing your point at all i disagree with it . they made their luck and didnt listen to the pundits who knew less then they did

the gallery pick means nothing because at the time he was rated a top pick as was mandarich all that shows is you need to do your homework and make the right choice

if you see a player you like dont get cute take him .

The Cowboys hardly made their luck. They got desperate for o-linemen and, amidst their paranoia, took two of them far before the should have. To be sure, they hit on them. But it's no different if we took Laken Tomlinson with our fifth overall pick. I've got no doubt that he can be a great OG. Let's say he does. Does that mean we "did our homework"? No, it means we blew it by taking someone who's clearly a second rounder when we could've taken someone like a Leonard Williams, in much the same way that the Raiders blew the Gallery pick.

And you keep missing the point about the Gallery pick. It's a point about value: it's a lesson showing that if you take someone before they're supposed to come off the board, you'll miss on other players in the process. The draft is all about maximizing value and evaluating risk. That's not something the Cowboys nor the Raiders did.

I love you point about how highly rated those picks were. Who rated them that high? Oh yeah, those pundits you seem to dismiss in light of your ability to pick players. Why were those pundits to be respected when it came to Gallery and not when it comes to people like Scherff?

As for getting cute, I agree with that. But if you do your homework, you can get "cute." Frederick was slotted as a third rounder when he came out, but was someone who the Cowboys could've gotten in the second round if they really wanted to reach. Instead, they gave up a ton of value by picking him in the first round.

To finish this off, look at Alfred Morris as a shining example. The guy was slotted as late round draft choice in 2012. But suppose we had a second rounder and used that to select him. We would've "done our homework" on him right? Maybe so, but taking in the second round when we could've had him later represents blown value. In particular, it means we could've used the second rounder on someone like Janoris Jenkins (which would've been our second rounder if we didn't trade that away). So, under your view, the fact that we got a Pro-Bowl RB in the second round justifies the loss in value in making that pick. What you continue to ignore is that we could've gotten Jenkins with that second rounder and still picked Morris up later on.