The Master Vent Thread-Negativity Within-Enter at Your Own Risk

[ozarkram]

 

[27mtrcougar]

That is not entirely true Cougar. Banks was going to be gone sooner rather than later because he was terrible and the offense he ran under Robinson/Rich Brooks was run oriented. Dick Vermeil wanted to rebuild the O-line and I am sure his decision wasn't too complicated with the notion that QB's in that draft were slim so they went with O PAce which was both need and BPA. Howver the point was that it does happen based on what the coaches/FO office decide based on their needs to build a club back from disaster and that is the point you continually disregard.

IDK i guess i would have to see a couple examples of a team picking #1 that needs a QB and passes on one if there is a QB there that is worthy of going #1. Brotels was not expected to go 1 even though the Texans acted like it might happen they wanted to trade out of there. they were bluffing. no one was saying he should go 1.

 

[Smed55]

Okay, we're cool then.

I still wasn't sure you conceded your original statement though bro.

Just ticked me off a bit that I admitted an obvious mistake two hours before you chimed in about it.

Wasn't aware you conceded the original argument to any degree.




We're all good brother!

Sorry Vita, I also did not see that you had corrected that!

 

[Smed55]

like I said David Carr was still under contract and the year they picked Mario Williams there was absolutely no quarterback to take it number one. Everyone thought the pick was going to be Reggie Bush but they shocked everyone picking Williams. Again there was no quarterback to pick.

I only count three quarterbacks that went in round one last year. Brotels, Johnny and Bridgewater. None of those guys were projected to go number one. The jags who desperately needed a quarterback reached for Brotels at 3. Manziel is a wreck, Bridgewater looks pretty good.

Sorry some people thought Bridgewater could be the top pick, Houston went with Clowney, a bigger need they thought! But Houston DID need a QB! Johnny football going as high as he did, was silly, Bortles don't know about him yet, Carr not a top pick, but could have easily gone ahead of a couple of these guys, and hasn't played horrible for a horrible team! Some of these guys scouting reports are similar to Sammies, big arm, good decision maker, can make all the throws, so where's the difference! Houston could have easily taken a couple of these guys because they needed a QB, but they didn't.

Sammie is still under contract this year, but people want us to move up to the top pick somehow, do we take MM if we could, who knows, maybe management thinks we have other issues more important, so in
Carr's case it really doesn't matter if he's under contract, if you need a QB you need a QB, You draft Young,
Leinert, or Cutler, according to you anyway! But they decided to build there defense first, do you get it now? And the Rams still might take Winston if he is there at 10, doesn't matter if Sammie is still under contract

 

[SJ76]

I'm not getting sucked into Cougs madness tonight.


I'm trying to be more positive in 2015. I apologize to anyone I called names. But I was being fair for quite awhile and repeating myself over and over. And unfortunately for some, twisting and turning things doesn't make Bradford a good QB. Either does a pro day. Lol


Finally, Houston needed a QB last year but they learned from previous mistakes (Carr) and that's why they didn't take a QB last year and took Clowney instead. They signed Ryan Fitz as a stop gap. We will see as Clowney was hurt most of the year. Clowney to me was sketchy after his senior year too, but last years QB class was pretty weak too.

And Houston still needs a QB btw.

 

[Vitamike]

I'm not getting sucked into Cougs madness tonight.


I'm trying to be more positive in 2015. I apologize to anyone I called names. But I was being fair for quite awhile and repeating myself over and over. And unfortunately for some, twisting and turning things doesn't make Bradford a good QB. Either does a pro day. Lol


Finally, Houston needed a QB last year but they learned from previous mistakes (Carr) and that's why they didn't take a QB last year and took Clowney instead. They signed Ryan Fitz as a stop gap. We will see as Clowney was hurt most of the year. Clowney to me was sketchy after his senior year too, but last years QB class was pretty weak too.

And Houston still needs a QB btw.

So my friend, do you think Houston would have taken MM or Winston if they were available last year?

 

[Smed55]

I'm not getting sucked into Cougs madness tonight.


I'm trying to be more positive in 2015. I apologize to anyone I called names. But I was being fair for quite awhile and repeating myself over and over. And unfortunately for some, twisting and turning things doesn't make Bradford a good QB. Either does a pro day. Lol


Finally, Houston needed a QB last year but they learned from previous mistakes (Carr) and that's why they didn't take a QB last year and took Clowney instead. They signed Ryan Fitz as a stop gap. We will see as Clowney was hurt most of the year. Clowney to me was sketchy after his senior year too, but last years QB class was pretty weak too.

And Houston still needs a QB btw.

I'm on your side SJ, so don't shoot the messenger!
I don't think last years QB class was all that weak, nobody great but 4 of them were starters this year and that doesn't count Manziel, who isn't go to make it in my opinion. That doesn't happen that often, maybe none of them will make it, but there is some talent from a couple of them!

You are correct they are building their defense, just like they were trying to do when they took Williams over a QB, when they knew Carr wasn't the answer. Clowney may not work out, but he was the right pick even
thought hey needed a QB, aside from what some Coug types think!

You would have thought the Rams would have seen what Houston saw, that Carr after 4 years wasn't their QB of the future or present, and held onto him maybe a year too long! yet the Rams after 5 years of the
same exact lack of production, don't get it, and will hold on to him for 6 years of non production!

 

[Vitamike]

I'm on your side SJ, so don't shoot the messenger!
I don't think last years QB class was all that weak, nobody great but 4 of them were starters this year and that doesn't count Manziel, who isn't go to make it in my opinion. That doesn't happen that often, maybe none of them will make it, but there is some talent from a couple of them!

You are correct they are building their defense, just like they were trying to do when they took Williams over a QB, when they knew Carr wasn't the answer. Clowney may not work out, but he was the right pick even
thought hey needed a QB, aside from what some Coug types think!

You would have thought the Rams would have seen what Houston saw, that Carr after 4 years wasn't their QB of the future or present, and held onto him maybe a year too long! yet the Rams after 5 years of the
same exact lack of production, don't get it, and will hold on to him for 6 years of non production!

If that is truly the case then, why are we having this discussion?

 

[Smed55]

If that is truly the case then, why are we having this discussion?

This is mainly for Coug to try to digest! the point is Houston needed a QB and could have gone QB with the first pick , but they decided to go defense. He is the one saying you ALWAYS go with the top QB if a QB is what you need!

 

[SJ76]

So my friend, do you think Houston would have taken MM or Winston if they were available last year?

Not sure. But I would have taken Marriota #1 last year. Clowney in my eyes had issues and his knee was was a slight issue. MM wasn't as ready as he is now, but he was better than any QB that came out last year.

I think MM came back to win a national title and work on footwork. Jameis was a red shirt freshman last year. No way he would have come out.


Smed I agree with u on the Carr and Clowney issue. Mario Williams as well.

A future Pro bowler is a future pro bowler. Doesn't matter what position he plays, as long as it's a big upgrade for the team.

 

[Vitamike]

Not sure. But I would have taken Marriota #1 last year. Clowney in my eyes had issues and his knee was was a slight issue. MM wasn't as ready as he is now, but he was better than any QB that came out last year.

I think MM came back to win a national title and work on footwork. Jameis was a red shirt freshman last year. No way he would have come out.


Smed I agree with u on the Carr and Clowney issue. Mario Williams as well.

A future Pro bowler is a future pro bowler. Doesn't matter what position he plays, as long as it's a big upgrade for the team.

Not sure Smed has value on prospective Pro Bowlers taken No 1 overall SJ.

He has no love for an actual Pro Bowler in Testaverde.

 

[Smed55]

Not sure Smed has value on prospective Pro Bowlers taken No 1 overall SJ.

He has no love for an actual Pro Bowler in Testaverde.

You can continue to make fun with that comment, but having 2 good years in a 21 year career doesnt make you a good QB, he was an average, if not a less than average QB. He didn't help his teams win, 4 winning seasons in 21 years is not a QB that leads his team to the promised land. I give him credit for somehow sticking around for 21 years, and being a pro bowler, oh boy, but I wouldn't put him on "your" list of #1 draft picks that made it!

 

[Vitamike]

You can continue to make fun with that comment, but having 2 good years in a 21 year career doesnt make you a good QB, he was an average, if not a less than average QB. He didn't help his teams win, 4 winning seasons in 21 years is not a QB that leads his team to the promised land. I give him credit for somehow sticking around for 21 years, and being a pro bowler, oh boy, but I wouldn't put him on "your" list of #1 draft picks that made it!

First, I wasn't making fun, I was just pointing out that Pro Bowler is not your standard of success for the No .1 pick overall as SJ was implying.

Second, I'm not saying Vinny was great or anything but let's face facts. It's not a fair label to say he was 'less than average' since ....

• He ranks 9th for All Time Passing Yards (46,233)
• He ranks 10th for All Time TD's Thrown (275)
• He ranks 2nd for All Time Highest Completion Percentage (with at least 20 attempts) in a Single Game (91.3%; 21/23)
• He was a 2x Pro Bowler (96' & 98')
• He was an All Pro (98')
• He holds the NFL record for most consecutive seasons throwing at least one TD (21)
• He holds the NFL record for throwing a TD to a different player (70)
• He became the 10th different QB in NFL history to throw for 33 TD's or more in a Single Season*

*Adding his name to the list of Marino, Farve, Blanda, Tittle, Young, Lamonica, Fouts, Kelly and Moon in 1996.

That's good company to keep for a 'less than average QB'.

Less than average QB's don't do those things in the NFL, they find the door.

 

[Smed55]

First, I wasn't making fun, I was just pointing out that Pro Bowler is not your standard of success for the No .1 pick overall as SJ was implying.

Second, I'm not saying Vinny was great or anything but let's face facts. It's not a fair label to say he was 'less than average' since ....

• He ranks 9th for All Time Passing Yards (46,233)
• He ranks 10th for All Time TD's Thrown (275)
• He ranks 2nd for All Time Highest Completion Percentage (with at least 20 attempts) in a Single Game (91.3%; 21/23)
• He was a 2x Pro Bowler (96' & 98')
• He was an All Pro (98')
• He holds the NFL record for most consecutive seasons throwing at least one TD (21)
• He holds the NFL record for throwing a TD to a different player (70)
• He became the 10th different QB in NFL history to throw for 33 TD's or more in a Single Season*

*Adding his name to the list of Marino, Farve, Blanda, Tittle, Young, Lamonica, Fouts, Kelly and Moon in 1996.

That's good company to keep for a 'less than average QB'.

Less than average QB's don't do those things in the NFL, they find the door.

again, I have no idea why or how he stuck around for 21 years, he had two good years, and below to average years the other 19 years! That's not just based on his "stats" that's also based on the "fact" that he didn't lead his teams to anything but below to average seasons!

Why does Favre hold most of the passing records, because in addition to being pretty good, he played forever. His most impressive record though, is the fact that he didn't get hurt, and in today's game that is impressive for a QB, let alone any player.

 

[SJ76]

First, I wasn't making fun, I was just pointing out that Pro Bowler is
not your standard of success for the No .1 pick overall as SJ was
implying.

Vita you need to stop implying what you think I am implying. When a I said " a future pro bowler is a future pro bowler" How is that implying EVERY #1 overall pick from every draft is a pro bowler?

I was simply talking about Suh versus Bradford. Throw in Mario Williams as well. Those are 2 separate drafts where teams had different plans and/or needs. But in this case, it's that Suh was a beast in college and he is a beast now. It was a no-brainer.

You need to stop twisting what I am saying to make whatever case you are trying to make.

 

[Vitamike]

again, I have no idea why or how he stuck around for 21 years, he had two good years, and below to average years the other 19 years! That's not just based on his "stats" that's also based on the "fact" that he didn't lead his teams to anything but below to average seasons!

Why does Favre hold most of the passing records, because in addition to being pretty good, he played forever. His most impressive record though, is the fact that he didn't get hurt, and in today's game that is impressive for a QB, let alone any player.

Here's an idea... because Football is a team sport and Vinny was only on about 2 good teams.

Vinny Testaverde was better than you think » Pro-football-reference.com blog » Blog Archive

 

[Vitamike]

Vita you need to stop implying what you think I am implying. When a I said " a future pro bowler is a future pro bowler" How is that implying EVERY #1 overall pick from every draft is a pro bowler?

I was simply talking about Suh versus Bradford. Throw in Mario Williams as well. Those are 2 separate drafts where teams had different plans and/or needs. But in this case, it's that Suh was a beast in college and he is a beast now. It was a no-brainer.

You need to stop twisting what I am saying to make whatever case you are trying to make.

Oh Geez, you got that from that?

Your very statement of 'a future pro bowler is a future pro bowler' is a standard of success.

So alls I'm saying is Smed must not believe that 'a future pro bowler is a future pro bowler' or that type of standard is good enough to call someone good regardless of their draft position as evidenced by his opinion of All Pro and Pro Bowler Vinny Testaverde.

 

[SJ76]

Well this dam typing thing is no way to communicate. Be a lot easier over a beer.

We could wipe out about 25 pages.

 

[Vitamike]

Well this dam typing thing is no way to communicate. Be a lot easier over a beer.

We could wipe out about 25 pages.

 

[27mtrcougar]

First, I wasn't making fun, I was just pointing out that Pro Bowler is not your standard of success for the No .1 pick overall as SJ was implying.

Second, I'm not saying Vinny was great or anything but let's face facts. It's not a fair label to say he was 'less than average' since ....

• He ranks 9th for All Time Passing Yards (46,233)
• He ranks 10th for All Time TD's Thrown (275)
• He ranks 2nd for All Time Highest Completion Percentage (with at least 20 attempts) in a Single Game (91.3%; 21/23)
• He was a 2x Pro Bowler (96' & 98')
• He was an All Pro (98')
• He holds the NFL record for most consecutive seasons throwing at least one TD (21)
• He holds the NFL record for throwing a TD to a different player (70)
• He became the 10th different QB in NFL history to throw for 33 TD's or more in a Single Season*

*Adding his name to the list of Marino, Farve, Blanda, Tittle, Young, Lamonica, Fouts, Kelly and Moon in 1996.

That's good company to keep for a 'less than average QB'.

Less than average QB's don't do those things in the NFL, they find the door.

Wait though he had to stay in the league 21 years to keep padding his stats. Haha