The Marvins

[Cincyfan78]

I wasn't referring to you. I know you pay attention. As a matter of fact, the first time I posted that was in your support. You were debating with Hokie, who didn't even acknowledge the post. I put it out there another time or two and was largely ignored by others I was trying to make the point to. So I just decided the research I did wasn't worth it because as you said people ignore facts that inconveniently contradict their preconceived notions.

I know. We are the rational ones (of a few) trying to stay middle of the road. Some how pointing out strengths for the offense or Dalton must mean that we are blind Dandy Homers that never see any bad in him. Or, if we DON'T TYPE ALL IN CAPS LIKE JWIL THEN WE ARE NOT PASSIONATE ENOUGHT (just messin jwil).

It's all good.

 

[DanBengalfan]

I could be wrong, but wasn't Hue the coach in 2011? He spent last year and this year with the Bengals?

Oakland Raiders 2011 Statistics - Team and Player Stats - ESPN

Would be what you, I think, would be looking for then? Hue was fired in January of 2012.

yep, still more passing than running. and hue had nothing to do say about it. I simply think Hue is stating the obvious about our offense, we have a quarterback who makes up his mind where to throw beforehand and doesn't read what the defense is doing at all and we have a decent run game that we often neglect because our receivers are very good, inspite of not being able to get them the ball because the quarterback is to busy throwing at the other team.

 

[Cincyfan78]

yep, still more passing than running. and hue had nothing to do say about it. I simply think Hue is stating the obvious about our offense, we have a quarterback who makes up his mind where to throw beforehand and doesn't read what the defense is doing at all and we have a decent run game that we often neglect because our receivers are very good, inspite of not being able to get them the ball because the quarterback is to busy throwing at the other team.

53/47 split on runs/pass.

That's not bad. Also, when considering how lopsided some of their losses were, you could argue that they were forced to pass a lot more in more games than they were going to run to use up clock, but I digrees. It was balacne as you can ask for. The balance this past year was 57/43, despite winning 11 games and having multiple leads to use up more clock by running the ball. I think an increase in the running game to 46%, while small, can work in favor of helping Andy.

Agreed on your point with Andy. I think Hue sees a QB that needs a bit more help from play calling. I think using the run a bit more to set up the pass can work for both sides. I think they need to find a Center that can block in the run game, as mostly both tackles and the RG can do decent enough. I believe the Center is really the focal point in wanting to run the ball, so I would start there.

I would also turn to Gio full-time and draft another power back later in the draft. Green-Ellis has served his purpose here.

 

[DanBengalfan]

53/47 split on runs/pass.

That's not bad. Also, when considering how lopsided some of their losses were, you could argue that they were forced to pass a lot more in more games than they were going to run to use up clock, but I digrees. It was balacne as you can ask for. The balance this past year was 57/43, despite winning 11 games and having multiple leads to use up more clock by running the ball. I think an increase in the running game to 46%, while small, can work in favor of helping Andy.

Agreed on your point with Andy. I think Hue sees a QB that needs a bit more help from play calling. I think using the run a bit more to set up the pass can work for both sides. I think they need to find a Center that can block in the run game, as mostly both tackles and the RG can do decent enough. I believe the Center is really the focal point in wanting to run the ball, so I would start there.

I would also turn to Gio full-time and draft another power back later in the draft. Green-Ellis has served his purpose here.

good analysis. I don't know if Gio will ever completely be a full time 90% of the snaps rb though, sort of like Ray Rice almost always had someone platooning with him.

 

[Cincyfan78]

good analysis. I don't know if Gio will ever completely be a full time 90% of the snaps rb though, sort of like Ray Rice almost always had someone platooning with him.

Agreed with Gio.

I would like to see them draft a power back that can complement Gio. Gio should get about 70% of the snaps, and then the other 30 can be divided out between no RB's in wide sets, and a power back for GL and short yardage type situations.

However, I was surprised with the power that Gio displayed this year. More than a few times a game, it looked like he was going down, and he would push the pile 3-4 yards more. Really impressed me, as I didn't really figure him to be that strong. I guess with a lower center of gravity, and his momentum, he can kind of force those movements. I would still prefer to have a bigger type RB, though, to help wear down defenses and to use on certain downs.

The thing I don't like when coaches say that a short pass is like a run...it doesn't wear on the defense like trying to tackle a RB is. The OL isn't mashing the DL, getting to the second level and hitting LB's and Safeties. Those guys aren't trying to smash/tackle the RB, and taking hits themselves. A lot of times on those quick outs, and screens, the WR is tackled by just 1 guy or he's run out of bounds. The true impact of a running play is nowhere near the same as those short passes. So, while it can be the same yardage-wise, it doesn't have the same impact on the defense, and doesn't wear them down as much.

Just my thought.

 

[bengaldoug]

53/47 split on runs/pass.

That's not bad. Also, when considering how lopsided some of their losses were, you could argue that they were forced to pass a lot more in more games than they were going to run to use up clock, but I digrees. It was balacne as you can ask for. The balance this past year was 57/43, despite winning 11 games and having multiple leads to use up more clock by running the ball. I think an increase in the running game to 46%, while small, can work in favor of helping Andy.

Agreed on your point with Andy. I think Hue sees a QB that needs a bit more help from play calling. I think using the run a bit more to set up the pass can work for both sides. I think they need to find a Center that can block in the run game, as mostly both tackles and the RG can do decent enough. I believe the Center is really the focal point in wanting to run the ball, so I would start there.
I would also turn to Gio full-time and draft another power back later in the draft. Green-Ellis has served his purpose here.

Mostly agree with this analysis, but the TEs Gresham and Eifert combined for -20.1 in run blocking. If we are going to use Gio's obvious talent in running outside that has to improve.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Mostly agree with this analysis, but the TEs Gresham and Eifert combined for -20.1 in run blocking. If we are going to use Gio's obvious talent in running outside that has to improve.

I think you can help off-set this by having the TE line up wide. Not all the time, but having them crack down on a LB, or find the safety at the 2nd level gives them a better matchup than trying to take De's off the LOS, or LB's off the LOS.

Couldn't do this all the time, but for sweeps, pitches, and stretches, this could work.

 

[DanBengalfan]

I would feel better about using Peko as a FB if he would just get a haircut.

 

[Servo]

Per PFF he was up there in deep ball attempts, completions, comp %, etc...doug had it out there somewhere. Maybe he'll repost.

So, no, it wasn't just all dinks and dunks.

Also, I disagree on several levels with the notion that a "short pass" is like a run. It may gain as many, or as few, yards as a run, but the explicit outcome is nowhere near the same.

My point is that many of the passes dialed up for Dalton were low degree of difficulty throws that were relatively safe play calls. I would not have described the Bengals offense last year as aggressive. I think Gruden had the right idea, but his play design and timing on some of his calls was really bad.

 

[cincygrad]

My point is that many of the passes dialed up for Dalton were low degree of difficulty throws that were relatively safe play calls. I would not have described the Bengals offense last year as aggressive. I think Gruden had the right idea, but his play design and timing on some of his calls was really bad.

You didn't like that 4th and 1 flare pass to Gio in the Baltimore game?

 

[Servo]

Agreed with Gio.

I would like to see them draft a power back that can complement Gio. Gio should get about 70% of the snaps, and then the other 30 can be divided out between no RB's in wide sets, and a power back for GL and short yardage type situations.

However, I was surprised with the power that Gio displayed this year. More than a few times a game, it looked like he was going down, and he would push the pile 3-4 yards more. Really impressed me, as I didn't really figure him to be that strong. I guess with a lower center of gravity, and his momentum, he can kind of force those movements. I would still prefer to have a bigger type RB, though, to help wear down defenses and to use on certain downs.

The thing I don't like when coaches say that a short pass is like a run...it doesn't wear on the defense like trying to tackle a RB is. The OL isn't mashing the DL, getting to the second level and hitting LB's and Safeties. Those guys aren't trying to smash/tackle the RB, and taking hits themselves. A lot of times on those quick outs, and screens, the WR is tackled by just 1 guy or he's run out of bounds. The true impact of a running play is nowhere near the same as those short passes. So, while it can be the same yardage-wise, it doesn't have the same impact on the defense, and doesn't wear them down as much.

Just my thought.

The defense gets worn out from being kept on the field. I think at a certain juncture its the right time to go power offense. The first SD game was a perfect example. They couldn't stop it and we were eating clock so why deviate? But in general I see this O-line as being more athletic and finesse based than just true maulers.

 

[Cincyfan78]

My point is that many of the passes dialed up for Dalton were low degree of difficulty throws that were relatively safe play calls. I would not have described the Bengals offense last year as aggressive. I think Gruden had the right idea, but his play design and timing on some of his calls was really bad.

I think this is what everyone thought.

Good mind, good ideas, just struggled with the timing of some of his calls. Got too cute, and out-thought himself at times.