The Hoopa QB Rankings, Pt. 1

[purguy12]

great posts JDM.

 

[AngryNiner]

Over the same stretch, in out of division games, they lead the league in scoring (28.5), are 4th in points allowed (20.025), are plus-80 in turnover differential (next is 52), and continue to stack up at the top in a wide variety of statistical categories, all only using out of division games.

I'm not trying to say it's all Brady, because it is a team game, but their dominance hasn't been because of the division they play in. They have been just as dominant outside of it.


By the way : Play Index Tools - Pro-Football-Reference.com is a fucking awesome tool. You can look at teams or players using all kinds of different criteria and it saves a lot of leg work.

Brady is a great QB and the Patriots are a good team but the Patriots reside in a weak division. Its has pretty much been that way for the last decade. The other 3 teams have been consistently bad and seemingly are picking in the top 15 in the draft year in and year out. Its got to be good knowing when the schedule comes out you automatically circle 6 games every year. Point being, they get six easy wins every year and that is a heck of an advantage when talking about Playoff seeding.

 

[AngryNiner]

Somewhat disagree, they made the playoffs with out him and he came back and they lose.

When the Packers clinched the division and a playoff spot Rodgers was the QB. So they didnt make the playoffs without him.
The Packers were 6-3 with Rodgers starting. In one of those loses Rodgers only played in the first series, leaving the game due to injury. So Before his injury the Packers were 6-2.
Without Rodgers the Packers went 2-4-1. That is a considerable step back. Based off of this, the Packers are a much better team when Rodgers is healthy. Arguing that Rodgers was the reason they lost in the playoffs seems pretty far fetched

 

[Kinzu]

Tom Brady is a great QB and I think 3rd on my list But it really helps to get a few wins and not just go to the playoffs but deep in the playoffs when you have played in the AFC East the last 10 plus years.

Who do you put ahead of Brady then? Rodgers and Manning certainly have not won as much in the postseason. Rodgers has pretty much been unable to do anything in the playoffs since the Super Bowl win, and Manning just continues to prove he is bound to have one of those God awful games every postseason.

 

[AngryNiner]

Who do you put ahead of Brady then? Rodgers and Manning certainly have not won as much in the postseason. Rodgers has pretty much been unable to do anything in the playoffs since the Super Bowl win, and Manning just continues to prove he is bound to have one of those God awful games every postseason.

I said I think he is 3rd because I have a hard time choosing between him or Peyton. For the the past few years I know that I always root for the Manning lead team ahead of Brady. Just a personal preference, but I have to think twice about it now because it seems to me anyway that Manning has lost a lot of zip on the ball. So going into this offseason I am going to have to rethink who I believe the better QB is right now.

As far as the wins and championships go, There is a lot more then just the qb that goes into playoffs and championships. Give Rodgers a defense and see what he can do. Manning's Championship is a lot fresher then Bradys. Football is a team game and Brady has had a much more complete and consistant team around then both Manning and Rodgers.

 

[JDM]

Brady is a great QB and the Patriots are a good team but the Patriots reside in a weak division. Its has pretty much been that way for the last decade. The other 3 teams have been consistently bad and seemingly are picking in the top 15 in the draft year in and year out. Its got to be good knowing when the schedule comes out you automatically circle 6 games every year. Point being, they get six easy wins every year and that is a heck of an advantage when talking about Playoff seeding.

Bottom 3 (out of division) in:

AFC East 169-191
West 162-198
North 175-185
South 164 -196

NFC East 173-187
West 143-217
North 153-207
South 171-189


Like I stated, middle of the pack. The perception is what it is because the patriots dominate the division, not because it is reality. The patriots are slightly more successful against their division than the field, but this is consistent among good teams. Extra familiarity results in the better team winning more consistently.

 

[JDM]

If you include all the teams:

AFC East 259 -221
West 231-249
North 246-234
South 243-237

NFC East 237-243
West 204-276
North 218-262
South 241-239


And you have the AFC East as the class of the NFL.

 

[purguy12]

When the Packers clinched the division and a playoff spot Rodgers was the QB. So they didnt make the playoffs without him.
The Packers were 6-3 with Rodgers starting. In one of those loses Rodgers only played in the first series, leaving the game due to injury. So Before his injury the Packers were 6-2.
Without Rodgers the Packers went 2-4-1. That is a considerable step back. Based off of this, the Packers are a much better team when Rodgers is healthy. Arguing that Rodgers was the reason they lost in the playoffs seems pretty far fetched

yes step back but they still made the playoffs with out him for half the season. Yes I agree they are much better team with him. There is no argument there. I was just pointing out that they still made the playoffs with out him for a long period of time. U take Brady off Pats for 6-7 games, Pats don't make the playoffs. Take Payton off Denver for that many games they don't make it. Same goes for Brees. Now the argument can be that GB has a better back up QB but I think it shows that there are more responsibilities for the others and not just any QB can step in and play for the Pats, Denver or Saints.

Like I said Rogers is a great QB but not #1. Good debate overall for all these QB's

 

[purguy12]

Who do you put ahead of Brady then? Rodgers and Manning certainly have not won as much in the postseason. Rodgers has pretty much been unable to do anything in the playoffs since the Super Bowl win, and Manning just continues to prove he is bound to have one of those God awful games every postseason.

 

[JDM]

If you include all the teams:

AFC East 259 -221
West 231-249
North 246-234
South 243-237

NFC East 237-243
West 204-276
North 218-262
South 241-239


And you have the AFC East as the class of the NFL.

Those numbers don't look to add up. I'll redo them in a bit.

 

[darken65]

If you include all the teams:

AFC East 259 -221
West 231-249
North 246-234
South 243-237

NFC East 237-243
West 204-276
North 218-262
South 241-239


And you have the AFC East as the class of the NFL.

What numbers are you posting? Win- loss records for over 20 years? How does that have relevance to this poll about who is the best QB currently?

 

[JDM]

What numbers are you posting? Win- loss records for over 20 years? How does that have relevance to this poll about who is the best QB currently?

Since 2002, as the poster I responded to claimed the AFC east has been bad since Brady has been there, and reality doesn't match that.

 

[darken65]

Since 2002, as the poster I responded to claimed the AFC east has been bad since Brady has been there, and reality doesn't match that.

I missed that post...just jumped to the OP topic.It is hard to not include Brady in the thread.

 

[JDM]

I don't think he was making that case, just that the division made it easier.

That isn't the case, but my numbers were done half awake and half drunk and don't add up, so I need to redo them.

 

[purguy12]

East hasn't been as bad as people think. Also people forget brady makes its to at least the 2nd rd every year and in a lot of cases he has been to the the NFC championship game more then any of the others.

 

[Uhsplit]

Compared to the bottom three of any other division since Brady took the helm, they are middle of the pack in win loss record out of division. I might do up some numbers when I get to it but those are time consuming so it will be later.


Here's some numbers that take no effort. Since 2002, the patriots have more wins outside their division than any other team, winning at a .750 clip with the second best team being the colts at .658. They also have the best division record, at .792 to the second place colts being at .750. Their record is a product of being among the best teams year in and year out, not because of the division they play in.

Sorry, NE is in a weak division.
SF would have kicked the Pats asses if they played last year. SF did not win their division.

 

[Kinzu]

Sorry, NE is in a weak division.
SF would have kicked the Pats asses if they played last year. SF did not win their division.

That's really not saying much though when the NFC West featured probably the #1 and #2 team in the NFL last year. The Bronco's were certainly not the #2.

 

[AngryNiner]

East hasn't been as bad as people think. Also people forget brady makes its to at least the 2nd rd every year and in a lot of cases he has been to the the NFC championship game more then any of the others.

I hear ya. Also people forget what conference certain QBs play in.









sorry, couldnt resist.

 

[AngryNiner]

That's really not saying much though when the NFC West featured probably the #1 and #2 team in the NFL last year. The Bronco's were certainly not the #2.

But 6 total playoff teams, not named The Patriots, since 01 should be saying something.

 

[JDM]

Because the patriots run rampant over the league as a whole, and they are unfortunate enough to play them twice a year. Outside of their division the bottom three of the AFC East are middle of the pack in record.