The Hammer Question

[pixburgher66]

Okay...so...the deadline approacheth. And most Pirate fans would agree that outside of our big guys (Cutch, Pedro, etc. etc.), Hanrahan would garner the greatest return. So, even though there's a small chance we'll be in the postseason picture, there's quite a good chance that the team overall would benefit greatly from trading Hammer. With a guy like Jason Grilli showing off how he has this season, and a guy like Cruz developing into a good 7/8 inning guy, and just the rest of our bullpen being amazing, you have to think they could actually afford to move him and still have success in the pen. Of course this all depends on the return, but would you do it? I know he's a fan favorite, but that means little to me, and should mean little to NH.

 

[element1286]

I wouldn't have a problem with it, as long as they got a young(ish) position player with some years of control left, who could actually hit. Of a prospect ready to step into the majors.

Of course off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone like that readily available.

 

[grayghost668]

Okay...so...the deadline approacheth. And most Pirate fans would agree that outside of our big guys (Cutch, Pedro, etc. etc.), Hanrahan would garner the greatest return. So, even though there's a small chance we'll be in the postseason picture, there's quite a good chance that the team overall would benefit greatly from trading Hammer. With a guy like Jason Grilli showing off how he has this season, and a guy like Cruz developing into a good 7/8 inning guy, and just the rest of our bullpen being amazing, you have to think they could actually afford to move him and still have success in the pen. Of course this all depends on the return, but would you do it? I know he's a fan favorite, but that means little to me, and should mean little to NH.

hell no,,,everytime the pirates gets aplayer that is any good they trade him,'''

TO WIN GAMES YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS,,,and this owner will trade him for a pack of gum and a roll of kite string

 

[pixburgher66]

hell no,,,everytime the pirates gets aplayer that is any good they trade him,'''

TO WIN GAMES YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS,,,and this owner will trade him for a pack of gum and a roll of kite string

You, along with many cynical Pittsburghers, have NOT been paying attention to the moves that management has made. To win games, you need good players. Exactly. And guess what? We need bats in the system and at the ML level, but we have MANY pitchers in the system that could replace Hanrahan. He's good, yes, he's great, but you gotta get the runs, to get leads, to get into a save situation. I'm enjoying this run, and love the confidence I feel going into the 9th, but keep in mind, closers don't last. Outside of Marino Rivera, closers don't last. He could defy that, but my point is if we're a few years from the playoffs, we're not keeping Hammer that long, trade high.

 

[steelparrot]

According to Jason Stark, the front office is telling teams that we will be minor buyers this year just like last.

I bet they do trade Hanrahan this offseason.

 

[pixburgher66]

Also, not criticizing you for being cynical, it comes with watching this team for many years, but at a certain point you HAVE to stop being negative and look at the big picture. When is the last time the Pirates traded away their big talent? Nate McClouth? Yeah, we won that trade. Jason Bay? Yeah, he hasn't been the same guy since the trade. Nyjer Morgan? We GOT Hanrahan for him. FOR NYJER MORGAN. Freddy Sanchez? Hasn't been the same since. Honestly, all the names we've traded away have been in the nick of time.

 

[pixburgher66]

Also: we traded Octavio Dotel (a closer) for JMac and Andrew Lambo (not as impacting of a prospect as once thought). That deal for JMac alone is an absolute steal.

 

[grayghost668]

You, along with many cynical Pittsburghers, have NOT been paying attention to the moves that management has made. To win games, you need good players. Exactly. And guess what? We need bats in the system and at the ML level, but we have MANY pitchers in the system that could replace Hanrahan. He's good, yes, he's great, but you gotta get the runs, to get leads, to get into a save situation. I'm enjoying this run, and love the confidence I feel going into the 9th, but keep in mind, closers don't last. Outside of Marino Rivera, closers don't last. He could defy that, but my point is if we're a few years from the playoffs, we're not keeping Hammer that long, trade high.

how long has it been since they have made the playoffs,,,,,

how many time in the last 10 years have they been in the basement,,,

talk to me when they get to where they aren't a joke anymore

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Nats got Sean Burnett in the Hanrahan deal was well and he has been a nice add.

 

[pixburgher66]

how long has it been since they have made the playoffs,,,,,

how many time in the last 10 years have they been in the basement,,,

talk to me when they get to where they aren't a joke anymore

Yeah, it has been awhile. Do you realize how difficult it is to get into the playoffs in the MLB? What I'm saying is being a cynic and just saying they suck, that the owner sucks, that the team trades all it's talent (even though they haven't made a bad team trade in awhile), won't change the past 20 years. People just have to stop focusing on the past 20 years. How many people involved in this orginzation have been involved for more than 7-10 of those years? Pretty much none. Nutting has only been majority owner since '07, Huntington since '07, Coonely as well. If you look at the moves done since that time, it's not the "trade everyone who makes more than 2 million" group. The first trade deadline with this group?

To NYY: D. Marte, Nady
To PIT: Tabata, D. McCutchen, Karstens, Ohlendorf
The Bay trade didn't garner much long term return for the Pirates, but we got decent stuff from LaRoche.

The next year was the great purge of course, and the guys we lost? Adam LaRoche, Nate McClouth, Freddy Sanchez, Jack Wilson, Nyjer Morgan, Sean Burnett.
Got back? Hanrahan, Morton, Cedeno, and prospects like Jeff Locke, Gorkys Hernandez, Tim Alderson (who is on his way back from a disappointing season).

Now, other than the McClouth trade, none of those blow your mind, but those aren't bad trades. Of the guys gone WHO would you take back? I'd say a triumphant none. I suppose Adam LaRoche, but he never performed here.

Sorry for the rant, but you can't say the same old cliched things about this management team, because it is NOT TRUE.

 

[grayghost668]

Yeah, it has been awhile. Do you realize how difficult it is to get into the playoffs in the MLB? What I'm saying is being a cynic and just saying they suck, that the owner sucks, that the team trades all it's talent (even though they haven't made a bad team trade in awhile), won't change the past 20 years. People just have to stop focusing on the past 20 years. How many people involved in this orginzation have been involved for more than 7-10 of those years? Pretty much none. Nutting has only been majority owner since '07, Huntington since '07, Coonely as well. If you look at the moves done since that time, it's not the "trade everyone who makes more than 2 million" group. The first trade deadline with this group?

To NYY: D. Marte, Nady
To PIT: Tabata, D. McCutchen, Karstens, Ohlendorf
The Bay trade didn't garner much long term return for the Pirates, but we got decent stuff from LaRoche.

The next year was the great purge of course, and the guys we lost? Adam LaRoche, Nate McClouth, Freddy Sanchez, Jack Wilson, Nyjer Morgan, Sean Burnett.
Got back? Hanrahan, Morton, Cedeno, and prospects like Jeff Locke, Gorkys Hernandez, Tim Alderson (who is on his way back from a disappointing season).

Now, other than the McClouth trade, none of those blow your mind, but those aren't bad trades. Of the guys gone WHO would you take back? I'd say a triumphant none. I suppose Adam LaRoche, but he never performed here.

Sorry for the rant, but you can't say the same old cliched things about this management team, because it is NOT TRUE.

SHIT the way this team has been managed ,,I feel like a BROWNS or BENGALS FAN,,,all I do is check the standings about once a month,,I won't waste my time watching them play,,,,,


so you go ahead and be all gung-ho,and at the end of this season and more than likely the next 10 seasons they have stunk it up again,,,I WON'T SAY I TOLD YA SO

 

[element1286]

Nats got Sean Burnett in the Hanrahan deal was well and he has been a nice add.

True, but he is pretty damn replaceable.

 

[pixburgher66]

SHIT the way this team has been managed ,,I feel like a BROWNS or BENGALS FAN,,,all I do is check the standings about once a month,,I won't waste my time watching them play,,,,,


so you go ahead and be all gung-ho,and at the end of this season and more than likely the next 10 seasons they have stunk it up again,,,I WON'T SAY I TOLD YA SO

It takes much more inept management to screw up an NFL team for that many years. Drafting in the NFL is easy...in the MLB? Crapshoot past like the first 5 picks.

 

[element1286]

Not to let this thread divulge into a blame the FO war, but relievers can be found fairly easily. If they can flip Hanrahan for a legit bat, it would improve the team, for this year and beyond.

 

[pixburgher66]

Not to let this thread divulge into a blame the FO war, but relievers can be found fairly easily. If they can flip Hanrahan for a legit bat, it would improve the team, for this year and beyond.

I agree. It's 3 outs. I think Lincoln is the future closer anyway.

 

[sychmd]

we do not have a 5 tool superstar,
if we can get one that is young and no injury history, i would be willing to trade cutch, let alone anyone else.

 

[grayghost668]

the Pirates have been bad for so long it's hard for me to get behind them,this was the team that I watched when I was growing up,they had some great teams in the 70s,now it just to me looks like the owner doesn't care


I'm just glad my grandfather didn't get to see the way things have gone,,he loved this team

 

[pixburgher66]

we do not have a 5 tool superstar,
if we can get one that is young and no injury history, i would be willing to trade cutch, let alone anyone else.

Woah, woah, woah. There is an extraordinarily short list which I would even entertain the thought of trading Cutch. He's future top 5 player in the league material. He's pretty freaking high up there already, under control for 6 years. Now, if they trade Cutch, I'm done.

 

[pixburgher66]

the Pirates have been bad for so long it's hard for me to get behind them,this was the team that I watched when I was growing up,they had some great teams in the 70s,now it just to me looks like the owner doesn't care


I'm just glad my grandfather didn't get to see the way things have gone,,he loved this team

My argument is just that: the owner is spending money. Top 2 spending in the draft. The team can't attract big name FAs, so they've spent money in the draft for the future, signed a guy that no one thought COULD be signed in Josh Bell (1st round talent taken in the second round), and traded for Burnett for straight up cash basically. They're investing money, and it's showing. The team was so ineptly run before this regime that it's gonna take awhile to build up the farm system, and we're getting there. So, in the next 5 years, when we're in the postseason and competitive, don't hurt yourself jumping on the bandwagon.

 

[grayghost668]

My argument is just that: the owner is spending money. Top 2 spending in the draft. The team can't attract big name FAs, so they've spent money in the draft for the future, signed a guy that no one thought COULD be signed in Josh Bell (1st round talent taken in the second round), and traded for Burnett for straight up cash basically. They're investing money, and it's showing. The team was so ineptly run before this regime that it's gonna take awhile to build up the farm system, and we're getting there. So, in the next 5 years, when we're in the postseason and competitive, don't hurt yourself jumping on the bandwagon.

I don't see it happening