The Flash (2023)

[Clayton]

I think the mistrust will carry over to the new Universe. If the movies are actually good, they should gradually win over fans, but I'm sure that Superman: Legacy will still suffer from this, at least initially.

Similar scenario to Batman Begins, which struggled at the box office because of the "Batman and Robin" stench, but paved the way for "The Dark Knight Rises".

I don't think so. I think this is a 'Die Another Day' 2002 scenario where a product loses its way and needs a rebrand for the next generation. Most Keaton Batman fans are probably a bit on the older side and we arent going to the movies much.

You see Spider-verse come in and it looks like its pretty much matched Guardians 3. Mario blew the doors off any super hero movie. I'd imagine Gunn's top priority is appealing to zoomers with a heavy ad campaign about the rebrand.

 

[DarthVedder]

I don't think so. I think this is a 'Die Another Day' 2002 scenario where a product loses its way and needs a rebrand for the next generation. Most Keaton Batman fans are probably a bit on the older side and we arent going to the movies much.

You see Spider-verse come in and it looks like its pretty much matched Guardians 3. Mario blew the doors off any super hero movie. I'd imagine Gunn's top priority is appealing to zoomers with a heavy ad campaign about the rebrand.

It's a good example, which prompted me to check these movies' performance. At least domestically, Casino Royale opened lower than "Die Another Day", and ended with just a slightly higher box office number, despite the fact that Casino Royale is by far the superior movie (internationally, Casino Royale did much better than Die Another Day). It wasn't until Skyfall that JB's box office numbers really exploded.

I hope that Gunn's Superman Legacy is great, and I hope that, for once, WB are patient and stay in course even if audiences don't return immediately.

 

[BusSport]

Yikes:

- "The Flash Is Now a Box Office Disaster of Super-Heroic Proportions"

- "The Flash May Lose WB $200 Million After Box Office Flop"

Based on Friday estimates, THE FLASH is looking at an insane 72% drop in second weekend, which would put it in a race with MORBIUS for worst of superhero movies tracked by box office mojo.

Painful, but needs to be mentioned: if #TheFlash ends up within the projection,since studio just keeps half share from #BoxOffice global grosses, it won’t even pay its total 150M marketing campaign.WB would have lost less money releasing it on Max or not releasing it at all.

 

[BusSport]

Yikes:

- "The Flash Is Now a Box Office Disaster of Super-Heroic Proportions"

- "The Flash May Lose WB $200 Million After Box Office Flop"

In its 2nd weekend, The Flash fell to 3rd behind Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse, a film released a couple weeks before The Flash, and Elemental, which is also a flop. As in, The Flash is flopping so bad, it's out-flopping another flop.

The DCEU now has had 6 (!) consecutive flops:

It's not looking good for the last 2 upcoming movies of the DCEU, Blue Beetle and Aquaman 2....

 

[DarthVedder]

It's sad because the movie is enjoyable and not that bad, and it even had factors that aren't DC's fault working against it, but audiences are 100% rejecting this movie world wide. It's a point in which it would have been cheaper for WB to just not release the movie and use it as a tax write off, like they did with Batgirl.

Imagine the pressure on Gunn's shoulders. Superman Legacy can't be "just good", it has to be incredible in order to have a chance.

 

[Superbelt]

It's sad because the movie is enjoyable and not that bad, and it even had factors that aren't DC's fault working against it, but audiences are 100% rejecting this movie world wide. It's a point in which it would have been cheaper for WB to just not release the movie and use it as a tax write off, like they did with Batgirl.

Imagine the pressure on Gunn's shoulders. Superman Legacy can't be "just good", it has to be incredible in order to have a chance.

There is certainly a strong headwind against DC movies going forward. You see that banner, and you expect it to be bad. "I can always catch it when it hits Max or Redbox." Gunn has a lot of work out for him. Going lower budget, more story and less CGI is the way to go. Step 1 is being profitable. And their CGI sucks the sweat off a dead man's balls, anyway.

 

[Superbelt]

And the only reason I saw Flash in theaters (And I did enjoy it overall) is because I couldn't get a good seat at GotG 3.
otherwise, I would have avoided it. The only other option we considered was Elemental, and that seems fine to wait for Disney+.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Finally saw this movie. I liked it. Thought it was the most marvel like movie of all the dc movies so far. The jokes, not too much grit, not to dark. Everything.

I am very confused by my own opinion about Ezra miller and his portrayal. One one hand I really dislike him as an actor. He is a poor man Justin long.

But the Barry Allen in the comics is written as a nerdy silly man. He is similar to Peter Parker just not tortured.

So I am not sure whether Miller was an actual bad casting( in all the snyderverse- not just this movie) or if Barry Allen as written in the snyderverse is just unlikable.

 

[DarthVedder]

So the DCEU basically ended with The Flash, with Blue Beetle being a character from the new Universe (it's a weird nonsensical explanation from Gunn, with the character being the "first" DCU character, but the movie not being DCU canon). Aquaman 2 is another weird one, but like the first one, it will be mostly independent from the Universe at large.

So, looking back at this uneven, mismanaged, more-often-than-not really bad DCEU, this is my ranking of these movies.

Great (but still flawed) movies that I love.

1. Man of Steel. It has a few flaws, but it's one of my favorite comic book movies of all time. Cavill was great as Superman, and Zod and the Cryptonians were fantastic villains who presented a tangible threat to the planet. Great movie.
2. Justice League Snyder cut.

Very good movies / shows I really enjoy

3. Wonder Woman
4. The Suicide Squad
5. Shazam.
6. Peacemaker
7. The Flash. Huge bomb that had everything going against it, plus some really terrible CGI, but the movie itself is good.

Flawed movies with still some good to great parts

8. Batman v Superman Ultimate cut. Terrible villains, many nonsensical and/or cringe plot points, but still some truly great scenes, like Bruce running through the destruction in Metropolis, the Batman warehouse scene, and the Justice League introduction.
9. Aquaman - Dumb fun, but fun nonetheless.

Bad movies

Suicide Squad (still had some great characters)
Wonder Woman 84
Harley Quin and the insufferable long title

Irredeemable mess.

Josstice League. I really wanted to enjoy it, and was really forgiving initially, but I hate this movie, particularly after all the behind the scenes crap that made it happen.


Haven't seen, but really not expecting anything great from these:

Black Adam and Shazam 2.

 

[UVA_Guy81]

So the DCEU basically ended with The Flash, with Blue Beetle being a character from the new Universe (it's a weird nonsensical explanation from Gunn, with the character being the "first" DCU character, but the movie not being DCU canon). Aquaman 2 is another weird one, but like the first one, it will be mostly independent from the Universe at large.

So, looking back at this uneven, mismanaged, more-often-than-not really bad DCEU, this is my ranking of these movies.

Great (but still flawed) movies that I love.

1. Man of Steel. It has a few flaws, but it's one of my favorite comic book movies of all time. Cavill was great as Superman, and Zod and the Cryptonians were fantastic villains who presented a tangible threat to the planet. Great movie.
2. Justice League Snyder cut.

Very good movies / shows I really enjoy

3. Wonder Woman
4. The Suicide Squad
5. Shazam.
6. Peacemaker
7. The Flash. Huge bomb that had everything going against it, plus some really terrible CGI, but the movie itself is good.

Flawed movies with still some good to great parts

8. Batman v Superman Ultimate cut. Terrible villains, many nonsensical and/or cringe plot points, but still some truly great scenes, like Bruce running through the destruction in Metropolis, the Batman warehouse scene, and the Justice League introduction.
9. Aquaman - Dumb fun, but fun nonetheless.

Bad movies

Suicide Squad (still had some great characters)
Wonder Woman 84
Harley Quin and the insufferable long title

Irredeemable mess.

Josstice League. I really wanted to enjoy it, and was really forgiving initially, but I hate this movie, particularly after all the behind the scenes crap that made it happen.


Haven't seen, but really not expecting anything great from these:

Black Adam and Shazam 2.

Black Adam I thought was okay at best. Not horrible but nothing worth going out of your way to see. Never saw or had plans to see Shazam 2 or the Harley Quinn movie. At this point, I'm going to wait until Flash is streaming to watch that.
I was disappointed in The Suicide Squad but it might've been because I had too high of expectations for it. So one of these days, I'm going to try to give it another shot to see if I like it better.
As of this point, I guess my ranking would be
1. Man of Steel
2. Snyder cut Justice League
3. Wonder Woman
4. Suicide Squad
5. Peacemaker
6. Aquaman
7. The Suicide Squad
8. Shazam
9. Black Adam
10. Justice League
11. Batman vs Superman
12. Wonder Woman 84

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Black Adam I thought was okay at best. Not horrible but nothing worth going out of your way to see. Never saw or had plans to see Shazam 2 or the Harley Quinn movie. At this point, I'm going to wait until Flash is streaming to watch that.
I was disappointed in The Suicide Squad but it might've been because I had too high of expectations for it. So one of these days, I'm going to try to give it another shot to see if I like it better.
As of this point, I guess my ranking would be
1. Man of Steel
2. Snyder cut Justice League
3. Wonder Woman
4. Suicide Squad
5. Peacemaker
6. Aquaman
7. The Suicide Squad
8. Shazam
9. Black Adam
10. Justice League
11. Batman vs Superman
12. Wonder Woman 84

Black Adam wasn’t THAT bad. But imo it was one of the biggest things that killed the universe.

 

[Duffman]

. But imo it was one of the biggest things that killed the universe.

I don’t see how you could possibly make that claim when the head of DC decided to go with James Gunn and do the whole reset thing before Black Adam came out.

The reason they gave The Rock so much power to begin with was because they were grasping at straws trying to find any way to save their franchises and so they just threw a bunch of ideas at the wall and see what stuck. It just so happened that between them giving The Rock the power to make decisions like bringing Henry Cavill back and the movie coming out, they changed their mind and went with James Gunn essentially killing anything Rock had plans for.

Now yes, The Rock made some mistakes like trying to do too much right away and not working with the Zachary Levi on incorporating Shazam but he was basically doing first what he thought would bring fans back and make money which involved getting Superman into the mix right away.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I don’t see how you could possibly make that claim when the head of DC decided to go with James Gunn and do the whole reset thing before Black Adam came out.

The reason they gave The Rock so much power to begin with was because they were grasping at straws trying to find any way to save their franchises and so they just threw a bunch of ideas at the wall and see what stuck. It just so happened that between them giving The Rock the power to make decisions like bringing Henry Cavill back and the movie coming out, they changed their mind and went with James Gunn essentially killing anything Rock had plans for.

Now yes, The Rock made some mistakes like trying to do too much right away and not working with the Zachary Levi on incorporating Shazam but he was basically doing first what he thought would bring fans back and make money which involved getting Superman into the mix right away.

true, that the talks of the reboot was happening no matter what... but don't fool yourself in that if it wasn't a successful movie that they would have been able to keep this universe going- just new management

but every single decision the rock made for this movie, even making the movie was never going to help the universe... looking back, if the rock instead did hawk-man... it would have all made more sense... but for some reason he and the DC people thought that an anti-hero would save the universe... just piggy-backing on the Rock's name!!.. what would have been the endgame here, even if the movie was a success??

at least if it was hawk-man, who is a HERO.. and who is a major part of the justice league, there could have been something to build... but an anti-hero is not going to build anything...

and the fact that he made that movie, then basically killed Shazam 2, because it confused the audience... and Shazam 2 came out so soon after...

if the rock was so set on making a Black Adam movie, it should have been Shazam 2... have the rock and Zach Levy share the spotlight.. and we could have actually gotten an EPIC movie... instead, we got a terrible movie in Black Adam, and a forgettable but decent movie in Shazam 2...

then the decision to bring in superman at the end of Black Adam, just felt like a punch in the face to every comic book nerd...

... also I claimed that it was one of the biggest reasons... I will admit, that claim had some exaggeration in it.. but I definitely think it was more than just icing on the cake...

 

[Duffman]

With ‘The Flash’ Leading VOD, Warner Bros. Discovery Gets Another #1 Film

All three VOD charts were nearly identical this week, while “They Cloned Tyrone” led the Netflix charts.

www.indiewire.com

Well it’s doing great now so while it flopped in theaters it’s still earning WB money.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

I finally saw the Flash. Eh, it wasn't bad at all. Not great by any means, but certainly not the crap-fest the reviews had me expecting.

 

[DarthVedder]

With ‘The Flash’ Leading VOD, Warner Bros. Discovery Gets Another #1 Film

All three VOD charts were nearly identical this week, while “They Cloned Tyrone” led the Netflix charts.

www.indiewire.com

Well it’s doing great now so while it flopped in theaters it’s still earning WB money.

This movie has lost north of $200M already. I don't think rentals will be enough to cover that.

 

[DarthVedder]

I finally saw the Flash. Eh, it wasn't bad at all. Not great by any means, but certainly not the crap-fest the reviews had me expecting.

Reviews have been positive for the most part. It's certified fresh on Rotten tomatoes. But even if positive, the reviews haven't been great, and WB did this movie a disservice by calling it the "one of the greatest cb movie of all time", which led to people being disappointed by it. Also, considering everything that was going against this movie, from a dead universe to a terribly cast lead who also happens to be a shitty person, the movie needed to be really great to have a chance.

Personally, while I find Ezra Miller to be insufferable (even Barry finds his younger version too annoying), I liked the movie overall.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Watched this today and I'm surprised. I was expecting more half-assed DC nonsense but this was actually pretty good. Not great by any means but a farcry from the garbage we've been accustomed to from DC.

Plot was good, progression was solid, humor wasn't as forced (mostly), it pulled a decent amount of emotion and the cast was likable.

Too bad Ezra is such a crap human being. I'm sure all his controversies impacted this movie in many ways.

The Nic Cage cameo was... a little overthetop

 

[calsnowskier]

Finally saw this today.

CGI was bad. The baby scene was there basically just to demonstrate how good the CGI capabilities of their team is, and it really only did the opposite. Same with all the scenes in the Speed Force. Too loud to follow, and it just looked like bad animation.

Cool to see Reeves, Reeve and even Cage, but it would have been nice to see some of the TV iterations. There are more hours of those Supermen than the movie versions. They showed Adam West, so why not Dean Cain or Tom Welling? And speaking of Adam West, why no Christian Bale? I kinda understand not including Pattinson as that may lead to MORE confusion over the different current iterations.

Are we supposed to take away that Batman 4 is now retconned as a stand alone movie, and not just a Val recast? Or is this Clooney a new, unrelated version?

 

[PatsFan2003]

The first part of the movie should have been called Back to the Future: Flash .. it was that obvious. Some of the contrasts between the Flashs were funny but it wasn't until they actually started fighting the bad guys that the movie had some good moments.