The cancer is in remission

[MarcoPolo]

That's half of it; you also need to look at obstruction. Contact at the plate is one of the two and is not allowed by the official rules of baseball.

I must be missing something. Obstruction is a call against the defense ("the fielder"), not the runner (meaning, a fielder can be charged with Obstruction, but not the runner).

Did you mean (sorry, here I am again maybe putting words into someone's mouth) rule 7.09 (j) :

7.09 It is interference by a batter or a runner when—
{...}
He fails to avoid a fielder who is attempting to field a batted ball, or intentionally interferes with a thrown ball, provided that if two or more fielders attempt to field a batted ball, and the runner comes in contact with one or more of them, the umpire shall determine which fielder is entitled to the benefit of this rule, and shall not declare the runner out for coming in contact with a fielder other than the one the umpire determines to be entitled to field such a ball;

 

[MarcoPolo]

I should say that my rules are several years old - maybe things have changed.

 

[tzill]

This is my point: the rules haven't changed. Blowing up the catcher is either interference or obstruction. In either case it's not allowed. Yet, the common practice has been to allow it to occur.

No new rule is needed; they simply need to enforce those already in the book.

 

[Heathbar012]

Indeed; the strikezone "interpretation" is a fair analogy. However, if you think about it, why can't a runner "blow up" the 1B on a bang/bang play, and yet can do the same to a catcher? It's inconsistent and unsupported by the rules. BTW, I've felt this way ever since Rose blew up Tenace...and I rooted for the Reds in that series.

Not to re-hash this discussion anymore than it already has been recently, or months ago, but the big difference (with most plays at bases vs. this one particular play almost a year ago) is that they are force plays. Of course there are tags at first with pick-offs and the occasional saved errant throw and second and third for doubles, triples and runners advancing, but the vast majority are force outs. A force at home? Rare. A force at home where the runner tries to take out the catcher? Non-existent in my almost three decades of watching baseball.

My main problem with the rule book is that it seems vague. Others feel it is concrete, and the rest should be left up to interpretation by the umpires. Of course, there will always be second-guessing of umpires and referees no matter what, but home plate collisions not only carry the weight of a game in the balance, but as we have all learned, can ruin seasons, and possibly, careers/lives.

I agree that collisions shouldn't be accepted as part of the game. The catcher's gear (which is designed to protect them from hard-thrown baseballs, not collisions) and excitement of the play has clouded our sense of history (not you tzill; I know you've always been against it, per your interpretation of the rules). That's the problem, though. There has obviously been a different interpretation of the rules made or the first home-plate collision in the modern MLB-era would have been called interference or obstruction (based on a split-second decision, with many variables, by the umps). Of course, umps deal with these types of calls all game long, but none happen so quickly with possible questions of intent and how much of the plate/bag needs to be left available to avoid obstruction. It also opens up questions about sliding with spikes up, breaking up double plays or shielding grounders from fielders (not at issue here, but vague, nonetheless).

I'm not certain of the necessary wording to clear up these discrepancies, but I do think for the interference and obstruction calls to be made properly, and as they were intended, MLB needs to put in more concrete language (ie. "leaving less than half of the base/plate available to the runner is obstruction", etc.). It seems I have re-hashed it. My apologies. I like the Giants and all of you.

 

[CameronFrye]

Oops. Didn't realize I was talking to the stalker. Post removed.

 

[filosofy29]

It's funny how long htis thread got. Seemed like nobody was disagreeing about the "legality" issue.....just over the intent of a malcontent.

Anyway, like I said, I don't wish harm on Scott Cousins. I hope he has a long, healthy, happy life. That said, he's still a fucking asshole. Sorry Marco, maybe it's my homer glasses, but nothing you've brought to light has even come close to altering my perception of the play. I'm not saying you're wrong about anything you've said above (as some were decent points).....I just think a guy (Cousins) saw a chance to go out of his way to go over the top and try and win some points with his ball club.....and he lunged at the opportunity to be a dick.

If Willie Mays or Will Clark did that exact same type of play in that exact same type of situation, I'd call them out for dicks too. I'm a HUGE Sharks fan and I loathed Bryan Marchment. I think my fandom can make me biased at times, but I think I have a pretty good BS detector too.

 

[msgkings322]

What a stooge you are. What did you expect Cousins to do? He'd have got cut if he didn't knock the ball loose from Posey.

Fuck you, Nolan. Yer out.

 

[tzill]

What a stooge you are. What did you expect Cousins to do? He'd have got cut if he didn't knock the ball loose from Posey.

 

[Mays-Fan]

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" - atrributed to Thomas Jefferson

 

[gp956]

Speaking of cancers, Rowand was released today. And Fred Lewis was reassigned to minor league camp:

Manager Manny Acta said the Indians gave Lewis the option of accepting the assignment to the minors, but added, "I don't know if we have room in Triple-A."

 

[Heathbar012]

Ouch.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

Speaking of cancers, Rowand was released today. And Fred Lewis was reassigned to minor league camp:

I'm not surprised he was absolute shite this spring... He hasn't even been tolerably bad since 2009... I'd say it's the end of the Rowand. Ride off into the sunset with your ill-gotten millions if not your pride!

 

[gp956]

I'm not surprised he was absolute shite this spring... He hasn't even been tolerably bad since 2009... I'd say it's the end of the Rowand. Ride off into the sunset with your ill-gotten millions if not your pride!

Never liked that guy.

 

[filosofy29]

Never liked that guy.

He ran into a fence once solely for your adoration and appreciation.....and a $12M per contract!!!!

 

[gp956]

He ran into a fence once solely for your adoration and appreciation.....and a $12M per contract!!!!

And he did save Sanchy's no-hitter, which should have been a perfect game. But Rajai was the better player, and 57 million dollars cheaper.

 

[the_broom]

Speaking of cancers, Rowand was released today. And Fred Lewis was reassigned to minor league camp:

Rowand and Lewis....the outfield of the Giants future just a few years ago...Rowand was going to play GG defense for us and drive in runs...and Lewis was Teh Lord's replacement in LF...

That didn't work out....

 

[gp956]

Rowand and Lewis....the outfield of the Giants future just a few years ago...Rowand was going to play GG defense for us and drive in runs...and Lewis was Teh Lord's replacement in LF...

That didn't work out....

ElJim must be pissed. He loved Garko and Lewis as exhibits 1a and 1b of the stupidity of Sabean et al.