The Black Falcon?

[TobyTyler]

This.

Granger playing the 4 only creates new problems, it doesn't solve any existing problem.

Easy to criticize but what do you suggest?

 

[CitySushi]

Easy to criticize but what do you suggest?

There's really only three ways to really address David Lee if you want him off the team.

1) Addition by subtraction. You'll take back less talented players and possibly another bad contract as well.

2) Cap space and picks. Expiring contracts and future considerations.

3) Talent for Talent.


There are numerous problems with all the above.

The first option you're likely going to get pennies on the dollar for Lee. You're going to get less productive players and you might be happy to get 1 or 2 rotational players, none of which will be of starting talent caliber.

The second option is highly unlikely. The new CBA recently signed penalizes teams for being over the salary cap. The luxury tax increases significantly for repeat offenders. The only teams that would really do this type of move were teams that are either flush with cap space. There aren't many of them out there and teams in this market are trying hard to get under the cap. I don't see many, if any, taking on Lee's contract, the way it ascends in annual salary.

The third option is probably going to be the most rare. While Lee is still very productive at least on the offensive end, there aren't many teams out there looking to shed their own big man to get him in return. You're not going to get a bruising big man who can defend the paint and score in the post. There are only about a hand full of guys who can currently do this in the NBA.

The Warriors have 0 draft picks in the upcoming draft and are already over the cap limit which means that they won't be able to be a player in the free agent market. Add to the fact Landry can possibly opt out of his deal and we're looking at losing both of our low post scorers and getting nothing of real value in return.

There aren't many players out there who help fit a need for the teams, where you can use Lee as the main centerpiece. Teams will call back asking for Barnes, Green, and Thompson. Those guys are the valuable trade assets.

 

[Heathbar012]

There's really only three ways to really address David Lee if you want him off the team.

1) Addition by subtraction. You'll take back less talented players and possibly another bad contract as well.

2) Cap space and picks. Expiring contracts and future considerations.

3) Talent for Talent.


There are numerous problems with all the above.

The first option you're likely going to get pennies on the dollar for Lee. You're going to get less productive players and you might be happy to get 1 or 2 rotational players, none of which will be of starting talent caliber.

The second option is highly unlikely. The new CBA recently signed penalizes teams for being over the salary cap. The luxury tax increases significantly for repeat offenders. The only teams that would really do this type of move were teams that are either flush with cap space. There aren't many of them out there and teams in this market are trying hard to get under the cap. I don't see many, if any, taking on Lee's contract, the way it ascends in annual salary.

The third option is probably going to be the most rare. While Lee is still very productive at least on the offensive end, there aren't many teams out there looking to shed their own big man to get him in return. You're not going to get a bruising big man who can defend the paint and score in the post. There are only about a hand full of guys who can currently do this in the NBA.

The Warriors have 0 draft picks in the upcoming draft and are already over the cap limit which means that they won't be able to be a player in the free agent market. Add to the fact Landry can possibly opt out of his deal and we're looking at losing both of our low post scorers and getting nothing of real value in return.

There aren't many players out there who help fit a need for the teams, where you can use Lee as the main centerpiece. Teams will call back asking for Barnes, Green, and Thompson. Those guys are the valuable trade assets.

It's a Zito situation, but Lee has had more moments earning his money, thus far... on the offensive end, and maybe five times, defensively. Their trajectories maybe closer to parallel now, but of course, injuries can cause immediate deterioration of either of those courses.

 

[Heathbar012]

Ha ha. What an arrogant ass you are. I love to see it come out. You can't last longer than a few posts before you start pontificating and preaching from your chair.

FIFY. Nope. I'm not one to claim to know the answers to questions that I don't care about.

 

[TobyTyler]

FIFY. Nope. I'm not one to claim to know the answers to questions that I don't care about.

I appreciate the fix. If one is going to insult someone he at least should have the courtesy to spell it correctly I always say.

 

[tzill]

FIFY. Nope. I'm not one to claim to know the answers to questions that I don't care about.

Don't you feel bad pimp slapping the guy in the wheelchair?

Then again, he IS highly annoying.

 

[Hambombs]

Why the hell would you wanna trade david lee? Yeah i know his defense isnt good but he brings a lot of value offensively for this team.

 

[Heathbar012]

Why the hell would you wanna trade david lee? Yeah i know his defense isnt good but he brings a lot of value offensively for this team.

Some fans would like to see a more defensive-minded power forward to hide the deficiencies of Steph and Klay on that end of the floor. Since, Barnes is a rookie and definitely moves his feet better on D than the other two wings (already), so I left him off that list. Bogut and Ezeli do a decent job of picking up the slack for Lee and Landry, but it's tough to expect them to handle it for the wing defenders, too.

Personally, it's a moot point because I don't think you can move him for anywhere close enough to equal value to warrant the decision. I like Lee, and I'm glad he is on the team. He has one of the most polished offensive games, at his position, in the NBA. I get frustrated with his D and I hate his contract, but I'm fine with keeping the "devil I know."

Speaking of defensive-minded power forwards, how do you like Ekpe Udoh's game? I've only caught him on TV a couple of times since he got traded. Has he been progressing? How are the baby hook and base-line jumper coming along?

 

[msgkings322]

Granger isn't a power forward, and the Pacers won't take on Lee's contract to have him and West fill the exact same role. Even if Indiana were dumb enough to gift Granger to the Dubs, you want four wing players playing around Bogut? That will make for some exciting basketball, but it doesn't solve the defensive woes (see Nelson, Don). Furthermore, if you want that team make-up, they'd save a lot more money if they dumped him for a rotational player and some picks while starting Rush next season. Good idea to leave it to Myers.

Of course, the team moves quicker when one of the slower players on the team is out. However, your assumption that the offense moves better without Lee is false. He is an excellent passer with great vision. The fact of the matter is the Warriors now have 15 extra shots per night to divide between Klay and HB. Bogut and Curry were going to take the same amount of shots, regardless. I'm glad Barnes has taken advantage of the extra offensive opportunities, but your assessment that Lee has held him back is absurd. He would be making the exact same strides if Klay or Steph had gone down. Avi doesn't muck things up on the offensive end. Defense, however, is another story. Maybe you should leave the player assessment to scouts and people that actually watch and understand the games, too.

Actually, the folks that actually analyze this stuff in detail say Lee's absence has unleashed Curry's game the most:

The New Stephen Curry: How the Warriors' Super-Shooter Has Transformed His Game in the Playoffs - The Triangle Blog - Grantland

 

[Heathbar012]

Actually, the folks that actually analyze this stuff in detail say Lee's absence has unleashed Curry's game the most:

The New Stephen Curry: How the Warriors' Super-Shooter Has Transformed His Game in the Playoffs - The Triangle Blog - Grantland

Good article, but he is weighing too heavily on the "data exclusive to Grantland." Curry may be dribbling the ball significantly more and running more iso plays, but he is only shooting 3 more times per game in comparison to the regular season. Barnes, on the other hand, is taking 5 more shots per game. I was a bit surprised to find that Klay is only taking one more, but add in Draymond, Jack and Landry's increases, and the total of everyone listed equals 14 shots (Lee's regular season average - 14.7). Thompson has just been much more efficient, so I assumed he took up a lot of the chances vacated by Lee's injury. Turns out, he just stepped his game up with Steph and HB.

Also, the off-the-ball screens for Curry that the author highlighted as being fewer and farther between, are something that I would like to see more. I think those make the offense even more effective because it opens up space for cutters through the lane. The Warriors have been winning despite lacking in this area, not because of it.

Really, the whole article seems funny at it's root cause. There isn't much statistical analysis necessary to show that a team's best player will handle the ball more in a playoff situation, especially after the second best player on the team goes down. It's definitely still ridiculous to think that Lee is slowing down any of his teammates on the offensive end of the floor, which is a shame because he doesn't slow down any opponents at the defensive end. Either way, I am really impressed with how quickly he has tried to come back from injury (if only for moral support).

The author is right that Lee rolls a little early on some of his screens, and isn't well-suited for the bruising picks that need to be used in the playoffs. Those types of screens, combined with the increase of minutes, gives a better explanation of Curry's playoffs than possibly gaining some advantage by losing an All-Star. However, those sentences don't get button clicks. Thanks for sharing, msg.

 

[TobyTyler]

The Warriors have 0 draft picks in the upcoming draft and are already over the cap limit which means that they won't be able to be a player in the free agent market. Add to the fact Landry can possibly opt out of his deal and we're looking at losing both of our low post scorers and getting nothing of real value in return.

There aren't many players out there who help fit a need for the teams, where you can use Lee as the main centerpiece. Teams will call back asking for Barnes, Green, and Thompson. Those guys are the valuable trade assets.

How the fuck did that happen?

 

[TobyTyler]

Why the hell would you wanna trade david lee? Yeah i know his defense isnt good but he brings a lot of value offensively for this team.

I'm starting to think that you, and others saying what you are, are right. Lee still can fill a role on the team. Just not the featured scorer role.

 

[CitySushi]

How the fuck did that happen?

The Warriors will lose their first round draft pick this year to the Jazz. That pick was a result of the infamous Marcus Williams trade. The pick had been delayed for years as the Warriors had lottery protected the pick until it became unrestricted this year. That's how the Warriors were able to get Barnes last year. If the Warriors would have ended up with the 8th pick instead of the 7th, the pick would have gone to the Jazz a year earlier. This year the Jazz get the pick.

The second round pick was probably a throw in, in another deal somewhere. Myers loaded up on last years picks because it was a particularly deep draft. This year's draft will likely end up being one of the worst in recent years.

 

[Heathbar012]

The Warriors will lose their first round draft pick this year to the Jazz. That pick was a result of the infamous Marcus Williams trade. The pick had been delayed for years as the Warriors had lottery protected the pick until it became unrestricted this year. That's how the Warriors were able to get Barnes last year. If the Warriors would have ended up with the 8th pick instead of the 7th, the pick would have gone to the Jazz a year earlier. This year the Jazz get the pick.

The second round pick was probably a throw in, in another deal somewhere. Myers loaded up on last years picks because it was a particularly deep draft. This year's draft will likely end up being one of the worst in recent years.

Not with Timmy Hardaway, Jr. in the fold! Do the picks from Atlanta and Philadelphia for Tyler and Jenkins roll over to next year if they aren't especially crappy? Do you think they are just going to disappear?

 

[CitySushi]

Not with Timmy Hardaway, Jr. in the fold! Do the picks from Atlanta and Philadelphia for Tyler and Jenkins roll over to next year if they aren't especially crappy? Do you think they are just going to disappear?

I don't remember the specifics at the time but I remember there was a lot of speculation that the Warriors would never see these picks. Essentially the trades would end up being salary dumps. I would think they would be something like top 55 protected or something.

 

[TobyTyler]

The Warriors will lose their first round draft pick this year to the Jazz. That pick was a result of the infamous Marcus Williams trade. The pick had been delayed for years as the Warriors had lottery protected the pick until it became unrestricted this year. That's how the Warriors were able to get Barnes last year. If the Warriors would have ended up with the 8th pick instead of the 7th, the pick would have gone to the Jazz a year earlier. This year the Jazz get the pick.

The second round pick was probably a throw in, in another deal somewhere. Myers loaded up on last years picks because it was a particularly deep draft. This year's draft will likely end up being one of the worst in recent years.

So let me see if I got this right, we have no draft picks and no cap space, right? So I guess we alread have next year's team in house.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

So let me see if I got this right, we have no draft picks and no cap space, right? So I guess we alread have next year's team in house.

Not really. Jack might walk and Landry could opt out. It's gonna be one interesting offseason to see how they improve the team. I'm guessing some buyouts for Bieds and Jefferson to open some cap space to sign Jack/Landry/ or whomever.

 

[TobyTyler]

Not really. Jack might walk and Landry could opt out. It's gonna be one interesting offseason to see how they improve the team. I'm guessing some buyouts for Bieds and Jefferson to open some cap space to sign Jack/Landry/ or whomever.

Richard Jefferson plays more like George Jefferson now days. He has no lift in his legs anymore. Biedrins? I could do Biedrins' job. He sits down and watches NBA games for a living from the best seats in the house and gets paid millions of dollars to do it. How do I get a gig like that?