The Black Falcon?

[Yoshi]

Stats alone I can see the comparisons, however just watching their games on the court I don't quite see the Pierce comparisons. When I watch Barnes play, I envision him of more of a slasher rather than a player that can iso a defender. What I'm really hoping for in the off season is for him to work on his handle, mid-range shot and post game. With the amount of shooters we have on this team, the drive and kick is going to be coming out to him more frequently. When his defender is coming at him on the run, he should be able to take any of them off the dribble to the rim. He's already a fantastic finisher and the more opportunities he gets to the bucket the bigger his role will be next year.

Their shooting percentages compared are similar, although what I was trying to make a point about with Nolan was that Barnes is just a rook and can improve his jumpshot over time. Pierce is a better shooter than Barnes but not by such a huge disparity and it's not something that Barnes can't improve upon. Does anyone remember Karl Malone when he entered the league? He didn't possess a jumpshot, and it eventually took him a few years to develop that, but it was effective.

Pierce can also penetrate the hoop as well, and he did it quite often especially during his Kansas days and his early days with the Celtics. If Barnes does develop that perimeter shot on a consistent basis, I can see his game mimicking that of Paul Pierce - an outside and inside game.

To be honest, both Barnes and Klay should work on their handles, but in regards to penetrating the interior of the defense, Barnes is more ahead in that regard. There are segments during the postseason where Klay settles for the perimeter shot rather than penetrating with either a higher percentage shot as the outcome or drawing a foul. This is exemplified by the lack of fouls committed on him.

It's great the Warriors have guys who can make perimeter shots and spread the floor, but rounding out their game is what could potentially make this team from a very good team to a great team. A lot of the pieces are there, but it's going to take the willingness of a few guys on their individual games to get better.

 

[CitySushi]

Their shooting percentages compared are similar, although what I was trying to make a point about with Nolan was that Barnes is just a rook and can improve his jumpshot over time. Pierce is a better shooter than Barnes but not by such a huge disparity and it's not something that Barnes can't improve upon. Does anyone remember Karl Malone when he entered the league? He didn't possess a jumpshot, and it eventually took him a few years to develop that, but it was effective.

Pierce can also penetrate the hoop as well, and he did it quite often especially during his Kansas days and his early days with the Celtics. If Barnes does develop that perimeter shot on a consistent basis, I can see his game mimicking that of Paul Pierce - an outside and inside game.

To be honest, both Barnes and Klay should work on their handles, but in regards to penetrating the interior of the defense, Barnes is more ahead in that regard. There are segments during the postseason where Klay settles for the perimeter shot rather than penetrating with either a higher percentage shot as the outcome or drawing a foul. This is exemplified by the lack of fouls committed on him.

It's great the Warriors have guys who can make perimeter shots and spread the floor, but rounding out their game is what could potentially make this team from a very good team to a great team. A lot of the pieces are there, but it's going to take the willingness of a few guys on their individual games to get better.

100% agree with Klay. He needs to go to the Kevin Martin school of drawing fouls. Klay definitely needs to work on finishing at the rim. I think in general this team has a lot of room for improvement, which is saying alot with their play thus far.

 

[TobyTyler]

You're comparing Paul Pierce and the totality of his work to Barnes in just one year of playing.

And to be quite frank, if you look at statistics they aren't that much different.

COLLEGE STATS:
Paul Pierce:
Paul Pierce Stats - Kansas Jayhawks - College Basketball

Harrison Barnes:
Harrison Barnes Stats - North Carolina Tar Heels - College Basketball

There's a 7% difference in shooting % between Pierce and Barnes, but their FT and 3PT percentages are similar.


NBA Stats:


Year Team G Min FGM FGA Pct 3PM 3PA Pct FTM FTA Pct
Paul Pierce
1998-99 BOS 48 1632 284 647 43.9 84 204 41.2 139 195 71.3

Harrison Barnes
2012-13 GS 81 2058 276 628 43.9 52 145 35.9 144 190 75.8

Their rookie seasons juxtaposed. With the exception of the ~5 percent difference in 3 point shooting, they're quite similar during their rookie seasons.

Throughout his career, Paul Pierce is a 44.7 % shooter from the floor with a 37% accuracy in 3's. Barnes is a 43.9 % shooter from the floor and a 35.9 % shooter from behind the arc. So you're comment of Pierce being a MUCH, MUCH better shooter than Barnes isn't quite accurate.

Well, of course I am. If Barnes' body of work only encompasses one year then what other option do you have? To campare their college stats, frankly, is absurd! College is not the NBA; not even close. I simply thought it was ridiculous to compare the stats of a borderline HoFer to a guy who hasn't even completed his rookie season.

 

[Yoshi]

Well, of course I am. If Barnes' body of work only encompasses one year then what other option do you have? To campare their college stats, frankly, is absurd! College is not the NBA; not even close. I simply thought it was ridiculous to compare the stats of a borderline HoFer to a guy who hasn't even completed his rookie season.

Calling Pierce a borderline HOFer just tells me what I need to know - no more need to extend the conversation - speaking to the ignoramuses is just a waste of time. Good day, mate.

 

[CitySushi]

I can't help but marveling in how well the guy has played in these playoffs. It's remarkable the progress he's made from the start of the season till today. He's been asserting himself on offense, not hesitating and making the most of his opportunities. His athleticism has been a revelation and more so his defense is what has impressed me the most. He has the highest ceiling of any guy on this roster, Curry included.

Its scary to think about how good he can actually be. I thought prior his ceiling was more in line with a Richard Jefferson in his prime, but my opinion on that is starting to evolve. If he works on his game to include better ball handling, becoming a more consistent shooter and improving his post game, he will be the one the Warriors go to in the last 2 minutes of the game. He's not even 21 yet...

 

[TobyTyler]

I can't help but marveling in how well the guy has played in these playoffs. It's remarkable the progress he's made from the start of the season till today. He's been asserting himself on offense, not hesitating and making the most of his opportunities. His athleticism has been a revelation and more so his defense is what has impressed me the most. He has the highest ceiling of any guy on this roster, Curry included.

Its scary to think about how good he can actually be. I thought prior his ceiling was more in line with a Richard Jefferson in his prime, but my opinion on that is starting to evolve. If he works on his game to include better ball handling, becoming a more consistent shooter and improving his post game, he will be the one the Warriors go to in the last 2 minutes of the game. He's not even 21 yet...

He doesn't have David Lee in front of him retarding his growth right now. The Dubs need to package Lee in a deal for another guy with size who will play defense.

 

[Heathbar012]

I can't help but marveling in how well the guy has played in these playoffs. It's remarkable the progress he's made from the start of the season till today. He's been asserting himself on offense, not hesitating and making the most of his opportunities. His athleticism has been a revelation and more so his defense is what has impressed me the most. He has the highest ceiling of any guy on this roster, Curry included.

Its scary to think about how good he can actually be. I thought prior his ceiling was more in line with a Richard Jefferson in his prime, but my opinion on that is starting to evolve. If he works on his game to include better ball handling, becoming a more consistent shooter and improving his post game, he will be the one the Warriors go to in the last 2 minutes of the game. He's not even 21 yet...

The only other wing player in his draft class that I would've wanted was MKG, but even then, it was obvious that HB's floor is significantly higher than MKG's. As HB's defense improves and offense continues to evolve, I may be proven wrong about their ceilings. It's very reminiscent of the Crabtree pick for the Niners (with completely different personalities from the players, of course). It was a guy that I didn't expect to slip to them, was the second player taken at that position (even though MKG could end up being a 2), filled their exact, immediate need and had tremendous upside. Add to it that a neighbor to the east probably could have used his area of expertise picked ahead of them, but went in another direction [Raiders (DHB) in the Niners case and Kings (Robinson) for the Dubs], and it has a similar feel. No. I'm not predicting a Championship visit next season... yet.

 

[Heathbar012]

He doesn't have David Lee in front of him retarding his growth right now. The Dubs need to package Lee in a deal for another guy with size who will play defense.

If they could get someone to take on Lee's contract, and still see enough value to get this defensive guru, I'm sure Bob Myers would be all about it. Any suggestions?

 

[CitySushi]

He doesn't have David Lee in front of him retarding his growth right now. The Dubs need to package Lee in a deal for another guy with size who will play defense.

Barnes hasn't been inhibited by David Lee. Barnes is NOT a 4. His future is at the 3. He's taken on a bigger role because that is what is needed of him. He deferred too much earlier in the year, which is to be expected of a rookie on a team full of scorers. Lee being on the floor at the same time doesn't negatively affect Barnes. At the same time his time away has helped Barnes make huge steps in the growth of his confidence.

I'm in agreement that Lee needs to go, but it has absolutely no reason to do with Barnes.

 

[CitySushi]

If they could get someone to take on Lee's contract, and still see enough value to get this defensive guru, I'm sure Bob Myers would be all about it. Any suggestions?

I just don't see anyone taking on Lee's contract. Even though Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay both got moved, neither the Hawks nor Grizzlies got much of anything in return value. With the upcoming luxury tax increases coming from the new CBA, the chances of him being moved decrease dramatically.

 

[Heathbar012]

I just don't see anyone taking on Lee's contract. Even though Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay both got moved, neither the Hawks nor Grizzlies got much of anything in return value. With the upcoming luxury tax increases coming from the new CBA, the chances of him being moved decrease dramatically.

Exactly. It's the perfect fallacy for a whiny, know-nothing button pusher. Suggest an improvement without any basis in reality, so as to either rile someone up or end a thread. There may be a deadline deal out there next season for the Warriors, but it might have to involve Klay and the expiring contracts. He doesn't want to discuss the merits of the various options. He wants to bitch and apply importance to things that he doesn't understand to justify an unrealistic position about teams that, at face value, he doesn't seem to truly like or watch very often. Sad, really.

 

[msgkings322]

Exactly. It's the perfect fallacy for a whiny, know-nothing button pusher. Suggest an improvement without any basis in reality, so as to either rile someone up or end a thread. There may be a deadline deal out there next season for the Warriors, but it might have to involve Klay and the expiring contracts. He doesn't want to discuss the merits of the various options. He wants to bitch and apply importance to things that he doesn't understand to justify an unrealistic position about teams that, at face value, he doesn't seem to truly like or watch very often. Sad, really.

BOOM goes the m-fing dynamite!

 

[TobyTyler]

If they could get someone to take on Lee's contract, and still see enough value to get this defensive guru, I'm sure Bob Myers would be all about it. Any suggestions?[/QUOTE]

None. I'll leave that up to Myers. Danny Granger?

 

[TobyTyler]

Barnes hasn't been inhibited by David Lee. Barnes is NOT a 4. His future is at the 3. He's taken on a bigger role because that is what is needed of him. He deferred too much earlier in the year, which is to be expected of a rookie on a team full of scorers. Lee being on the floor at the same time doesn't negatively affect Barnes. At the same time his time away has helped Barnes make huge steps in the growth of his confidence.

I'm in agreement that Lee needs to go, but it has absolutely no reason to do with Barnes.

We disagree. Barnes feels much more free to go for his shots without Lee demanding and dominating the ball down low. It looks like a much faster and more athletic team without Lee. Although maybe they could have used a slower calming pace at game's end the last two games.

 

[TobyTyler]

Exactly. It's the perfect fallacy for a whiny, know-nothing button pusher. Suggest an improvement without any basis in reality, so as to either rile someone up or end a thread. There may be a deadline deal out there next season for the Warriors, but it might have to involve Klay and the expiring contracts. He doesn't want to discuss the merits of the various options. He wants to bitch and apply importance to things that he doesn't understand to justify an unrealistic position about teams that, at face value, he doesn't seem to truly like or watch very often. Sad, really.

Man, that guy must be a real ass hole.

 

[Heathbar012]

If they could get someone to take on Lee's contract, and still see enough value to get this defensive guru, I'm sure Bob Myers would be all about it. Any suggestions?[/QUOTE]

None. I'll leave that up to Myers. Danny Granger?

We disagree. Barnes feels much more free to go for his shots without Lee demanding and dominating the ball down low. It looks like a much faster and more athletic team without Lee. Although maybe they could have used a slower calming pace at game's end the last two games.

Granger isn't a power forward, and the Pacers won't take on Lee's contract to have him and West fill the exact same role. Even if Indiana were dumb enough to gift Granger to the Dubs, you want four wing players playing around Bogut? That will make for some exciting basketball, but it doesn't solve the defensive woes (see Nelson, Don). Furthermore, if you want that team make-up, they'd save a lot more money if they dumped him for a rotational player and some picks while starting Rush next season. Good idea to leave it to Myers.

Of course, the team moves quicker when one of the slower players on the team is out. However, your assumption that the offense moves better without Lee is false. He is an excellent passer with great vision. The fact of the matter is the Warriors now have 15 extra shots per night to divide between Klay and HB. Bogut and Curry were going to take the same amount of shots, regardless. I'm glad Barnes has taken advantage of the extra offensive opportunities, but your assessment that Lee has held him back is absurd. He would be making the exact same strides if Klay or Steph had gone down. Avi doesn't muck things up on the offensive end. Defense, however, is another story. Maybe you should leave the player assessment to scouts and people that actually watch and understand the games, too.

 

[Heathbar012]

Man, that guy must be a real ass hole.

You betcha.

 

[TobyTyler]

Granger isn't a power forward, and the Pacers won't take on Lee's contract to have him and West fill the exact same role. Even if Indiana were dumb enough to gift Granger to the Dubs, you want four wing players playing around Bogut? That will make for some exciting basketball, but it doesn't solve the defensive woes (see Nelson, Don). Furthermore, if you want that team make-up, they'd save a lot more money if they dumped him for a rotational player and some picks while starting Rush next season. Good idea to leave it to Myers.

Of course, the team moves quicker when one of the slower players on the team is out. However, your assumption that the offense moves better without Lee is false. He is an excellent passer with great vision. The fact of the matter is the Warriors now have 15 extra shots per night to divide between Klay and HB. Bogut and Curry were going to take the same amount of shots, regardless. I'm glad Barnes has taken advantage of the extra offensive opportunities, but your assessment that Lee has held him back is absurd. He would be making the exact same strides if Klay or Steph had gone down. Avi doesn't muck things up on the offensive end. Defense, however, is another story. Maybe you should leave the player assessment to scouts and people that actually watch and understand the games, too.

Since Granger had a season-ending injury the Pacers might be willing to deal him. You are blind if you think Granger can't be the same "power forward" that Lee is in the Warriors lineup. There really is no risk either since we now see that the Warriors don't misss Lee's presence at all and Granger would be the other go to guy who can score, rebound and play defense.

Your "15 extra shots for Curry and Klay" nonsense is just that. Now Branes and Green get involved as well and bring their skills to bear.

 

[TobyTyler]

You betcha.

Ha ha. What an arrogant ass you are. I love to see it come out. You can't last longer than a few posts before you start poniticating and preaching from your chair.

 

[CitySushi]

Granger isn't a power forward, and the Pacers won't take on Lee's contract to have him and West fill the exact same role. Even if Indiana were dumb enough to gift Granger to the Dubs, you want four wing players playing around Bogut? That will make for some exciting basketball, but it doesn't solve the defensive woes (see Nelson, Don). Furthermore, if you want that team make-up, they'd save a lot more money if they dumped him for a rotational player and some picks while starting Rush next season. Good idea to leave it to Myers.

Of course, the team moves quicker when one of the slower players on the team is out. However, your assumption that the offense moves better without Lee is false. He is an excellent passer with great vision. The fact of the matter is the Warriors now have 15 extra shots per night to divide between Klay and HB. Bogut and Curry were going to take the same amount of shots, regardless. I'm glad Barnes has taken advantage of the extra offensive opportunities, but your assessment that Lee has held him back is absurd. He would be making the exact same strides if Klay or Steph had gone down. Avi doesn't muck things up on the offensive end. Defense, however, is another story. Maybe you should leave the player assessment to scouts and people that actually watch and understand the games, too.

This.

Granger playing the 4 only creates new problems, it doesn't solve any existing problem.